Living in Peru : your everyday companion

Living in Peru
Larry J. Pitman

One day I was walking along the main street of Barranco with a friend who was visiting from Europe. One of the street people, a man who shines shoes, approached us. His name is Ramon, and he asked to shine my shoes as he usually did when I was out walking. I always refused before. But this day, I was busy talking to my friend and, while my attention was diverted, Ramon started polishing my shoes. I decided, against my better judgment, to let him continue. A big mistake!

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The annoyance is understandable, but so is the desire of someone from Callao or La Victoria or Los Conos to take advantage of any opportunity to make a few extra soles.

We may all have that "cara de gringo" here in the USA....credit cards,auto loans,mortgage loans,jewlery,gasoline,restaurants,etc,etc....
ah, and then, state taxes,cigarrets and now groceries...there has to be some kind of negotiating prior to commit, gringo or not!
If we do our home work before the deal...you will not have a "gringo face" kind of deal. If the price is not good enough....move on !..if you beat the 'dealer', BUY !

I love Peru's free enterprice...  you can get good deals also...

Can't blame Ramon for trying. As negotiator,he will hit you with 10 soles from the start (high number),as "gringo face" you may just accept that number. But,as a "cara de gringo" living in Peru, you would hit him with 5 soles to start. For Ramon,the choice is now to go lower than higher than those 10 soles he quoted at the start. Ramon realizes now that you are intersted on a shoe shine, he will negotiate with you 'till a number between 10 and 5 is agreed upon. As a negotiator,increase your willingness to buy by .50 cents at a time...don't jump on increments of 1 soles.... at the end,you'll get the service closer to your 5 soles bid.
And,nothing wrong to tip Ramon if the 'shine' is a GOOD ONE !
We know nothing is free...but,enterpricing. 

The thing is that even hiked up prices in soles won't seem like that much to tourists, as they expect to pay so much more....therefore fair play to the bloke.

It is rather annoying when you live there and have to argue over pasajes on the combis virtually everyday though.

It would be good for them to just admit they tried it on when you tell them you live there. If they just said...oh fair enough...thought you were a gullable tourist.

I lived in Peru for 9 months with my wonderful wife. Not only did I deal with the exact things you went through, but I went through it daily. Everytime we wanted to take a Taxi, I had to hide around the corner while my wife talked to the driver. When we went to the market or any place for that matter, it was always such a hassle. I cant believe they try to get away with that, and then after you tell them no, they try to negotiate with you. I was married in Peru, at Club Grau in Piura. They wanted to charge me $500 for the room. After I said no, and my wife talked to them we ended up only paying $200. We rented a house, and when I went there they told me 1100 soles. But I said no, and my wife went back the next day, and they told her 570 soles. Terrible how they take advantage of "Gringos". Not only did I hate that word when I was ther, but I got into a few arguments over it. That country was beautiful, but the people are the worst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone is out to take care of themselves, and screw whomever they can.

Having been in Peru 4 times in the last 10 years, I have also experienced the same thing. My reaction however was different. Most of these people are so poor I just gave them what me native Peruvian friend said they would be very happy with. I know it was more than they would get from fellow Peruvians, but I couldn't help feeling that it didn't hurt me to give a little more to people who have so little and work so hard to just feed their kids. I've never had to polish another man's shoes to make money, so I guess I can afford to share what I have in one way or another.

Hi there, the situation you have described it´s just a simple economic case, and it is negotiation with asymmetry of information, Ramon didn´t thought "it´s a gringo he have a lot of money", he thought "it´s a gringo, he doesn´t know the real price".

It´s the same principle for when you buy a used car, you don´t know how well the car was taked care off, so maybe you are paying an over price for a lemon.

Ramon in his narrow world and mind applied one of the most interesting and richest cases of game theory, so you can´t blame him for being such an entrepreneur

Soy Peruano y visito Lima cada ano y paso por lo mismo ya que dicen que tengo un olor a limpio y por eso se dan cuenta que no soy del lugar.

Hate to see my friend Larry get taken by this guy Ramon. It ain`t fair. I got hit years ago in the Plaza San Martin when I was quoted S/.2 Soles for a shine and then got hit with S/.8 Soles when he added a wax protector or something I hadn`t ordered. It´s the old con game and immoral.

A poorly dressed lady used to stand on a busy corner of Av. Arequipa years ago with a baby asking for donations from drivers. I would give occasionally. When I mentioned it to my secretary one day, she said she had done the same until one day she saw the same woman in the neighborhood where her maid lived and upon inquiring, found that the "shabbily dressed beggar" owned several apartments in the area and was around collecting her overpriced rent from "poorer people"

Moral of the story: Never make "donations" on the street. Take them to the nearest recommended parrish, church, or synagoge or save it for Obama´s reelection campaign.

Jim 

I agree with Jim:  donations are better distributed when donates at a parish, church, or synagoge.  One thisng is for sure:  this has always been the way in most countries - all we need to do is learn to deal with it; we all already know how it works!  And it DOES happen everywhere- in Peru they charge you more if you look foreign; in the US they treat you poorly/look down at you if do not look American (unless you live in Miami and then Americans suffer there more than if in Peru, by the way).  Next time someone charges you anything for getting a service, bargain the price - even Peruanos do this - so it happens to them as well.  Let's stop complaining, deal with it, and keep on living.  You want to make a difference, or you want this to change?  then give them a taste of their own remedy by bargaining down the price and telling them that 'donations' can be picked up at their local charity.

As a New Yorker I grew up learning to always find a good bargain.  I was an exchange student in Cusco 30 years ago (whew, that's difficult to put in black and white!).  I loved the many many bargains I got while in Peru.  It was a New Yorker's dream!  I once talked down further a beautiful ring that another exchange student had begun to bargain and left me to get a very low price.  The entire time I lived in Peru, I was great at bargaining.  I never really contemplated the many bargains I had gotten until I returned from my exchange.  It began to become apparent to me that in some cases, my bargaining purchases HAD TO HAVE been at a price below the cost of materials for the artisans.  This didn't always happen but several purchases I am sure of.  Then include the value of labor.  Yes it is cheap cheap in Peru.  The Q I began to ask myself, even at those cheap prices, is it equitable?  A good vendor earns enough to feed his family and resupply his stock.  I began to realize that those few centavos that I talked down, may be the difference between the family's rice and beans or enjoying a stew (perhaps with a few specs of beef or pollo).  OR if they are eating well, getting medical or dental care.  What papi or mamacita wouldn't do just about anything to earn what they need for the welfare of their children.  So many not able to do that have to leave their families and come to the USA.  At the expense of their family relationships!  I no longer resent the few times when I was not as stubborn as the Peruvian vendors and didn't get my bargain price.  Did I stick out, tall and blond YOU bet, I was a magnet! Did I get inundated, YES.  Was it annoying, quite! Am I glad I have the opportunities of America, absolutely.  But how much I love Peru and the Peruvian people who were, and still are, so very very generous with me.  In 2004 I returned with my husband and son, and traveled for a month.  We visited Mira Flores, Callao, and other regions cerca Lima,  Chaclacayo, Cusco, Chiclayo, Iquitos.  I felt badly that my local guests were so worried about my not paying more than 10 soles for a taxi.  While there I figured on longer taxi rides this didn't even cover the gas!  One of my host brothers, a great musician in Lima, was also driving a taxi in 2004 for extra income.  His wife, a HS teacher, earns roughly 400 dollars/ month.  Thier rent is more than that.  He had to give  up the taxi as prices of gas skyrocketed and fees didn't keep up. I worry about them frequently.  As I do my Peruvian-sister who is a special ed teacher and single mom, trying to make enough to keep her daughter in the school of choice.  I relate to them very much as I am a teacher here.  Were I a native Peruana, I could not live  in Peru on what they earn and do it as well. I respect the working Peruvian people very much.  (Minus the pickpockets)

To bargain or not to bargain, that is the question. The answer definetively is YES. Always bear in mind the agreed rate is fair enogh to both "the gringo" and "the peruano". It is true vendors would try to get some extra cash, but you must keep in mind the amount you'd pay for a similar sergive or good in your country.
This not happens to gringos but also to some capitalinos like myself. I, a Limeño, had tha same experience in Piura. My morale, better find a service in a fixed location rather than with an ambling vendor, who wil walk away after deceiving you and will become untraceable.

Folks:  some postings have mysteriously disappeared from this forum.  They were not vulgar....no four-letter words or the like.  Then, why were they deleted? Because they made Larry Pitman feel uncomfortable when someone pointed out his lack of common sense and understanding?  There have been postings in LIP that have been obscene, vulgar and frankly raunchy, yet they sat there for days before being edited. 

So, it's not fair that some of the postings on this and other forums have been deleted and writers blocked.  LIP should only do this when someone is using offensive, raunchy language.

Tell me why I am a Loser....

Tell us who is the biggest loser in your world..

And It off ypur chest

i-am-a-loser@live.com

 

Is not the face is the cloth, they do it to mi also and I don't look like a gringo, I live in Peru partially( I am a peruvian-american) since I retired after working in the States for decades, I usually let my wife do the bargain( she love it) my experience after traveling around 4 continents is that we are recognized as foreigners or turist for what we wear not our "grindio" face, there are peruvian gringos... do you know ?  is a fact that vendors and taxidrivers could tell that you are a foreigner just by looking at your cloth and shoes even if you go to Kenya,Peru or Russia and keep your mouth shut.

Para esos huachafos peruanos que dicen que parecen o huelen a extranjeros, dan mucha verguenza!!!!Soy ciudadana americana que reside mas de 20 anos en este pais y jamas dejare de ser peruana, sino estuviera casada y con hijos, estaria viviendo en mi hermosa ciudad con todo lo que tiene. Arriba el Peru, de corazon o de raza todos somos cholos!!!!

Gisella mi amor, muy bien dicho china, yo tambien habito en el extranjis, mas no hay nada mas rico que volver a Lima limones, con las combis asesinas, menu de mercado, playa de Agua Dulce y sus cebiches, un paseo por el Rimac, los billares de la cuadra dos de Tacna, los bares del Callao, los chifas del Cercado, y mas que nada con la picardia de su gente, aqui me arrimo: VIVA EL PERU CARAJO!.

VIVA PERU ! (for sure!)...although,having your money going a long way it's everybodies' concern. Specially if we send it to love ones in Peru to keep up with their needs and expenses.
With the economy nowadays,we may have to say 'NO' to the shoe shines and street ambulents. It will get tough for many people.
"Cara de gringo" or not...we will have to avoid it all together.( 10,5 soles..will pay for more than 2 taxi rides when you need to get somewhere)... Carajo, if we have to have shiny shoes,we can do the "spit n rub" ourselves.

  No te pases Valladares! Yo tambien vivo en el "extranjis" como le dices, hace 30 años con universidad, familia y todo, pero no añoro para nada los mañosos de las combis o los buses, ni la hepatitis del menu del mercado, ni la sarna del Agua dulce...no seas malo!  Amo al Peru pero tambien yo me amo a mi misma (Manyas la redundacia y la hiperbole? )  No seamos ni huachafos ni extremistas pessss

Bye-Bye  Ja!ja!ja!

(Ojo ke no digo HA,HA,Ha...)

Sure is everybodys choice, but if you get done by a shoeshine lad, or any other merchant, you have to accept it. You know you are in Lima, if you park a vehicle in the suburbs, you know it will be gone by your return, you´re not born yesterday, are you?. But this is what make the city exiting, a stroll trough the Malvinas, go drinking  in Avda. Peru, catch a bus around El Fiori at night, great city.
And of course we have to do the spit & rub ourselves, everyone should clean their own shit I believe.

Hola Pola

En parte tienes razon, por supuesto que cuando voy a Lima con mi familia, ahi tengo que estar ojito, ojito(mi mujer e hijos son europeos y van de lirios). Pero cuando voy solana, me voy a mataperrear por todos lados, ya sabes que en Lima se puede vacilar las 24 horas del dia, y barato, quitando Larco Centro donde tienen precios europeos, donde con 10 soles no te alcanza para una chela(12 soles, y encima son las de 30cc.). Se te saluda
Julio

"Julio"(?)("says")...I'm not sure what makes "the ciy" exiting...? leaving your car in the suburbs and being stolen(?)..."getting 'done' by the merchant"...? Ojito,ojito.
You would be right; if i would off been born yesterday...it would happen to me.
How many times has it happened to you?
If i have 'shit' on my shoes...'spit n rub' won't work ! I'd get Ramon to wipe it off and shine it...but, still not for 10 soles.

Sinceramente, cuando yo voy a Lima voy con ganas de promover la economia del Peru.  Gasto y reviento sin fijarme en los dos, tres, o cinco soles que a la otra persona de hecho que le hace mas falta que a mi. 
Viviendo en el extranjero, no me llena el reclamar ni malbaratear el producto o servicio que me brindan mis compatriotas peruchitos.  (Ojito ojito que lo digo con el mas grande cariñito que conlleva la palabra)  Pedir rebajas y descuentos y tratar de sacar provecho a la situacion es "cheap".  It's not like it's going to make you or break you know? 
Pero para ellos, Maybe es la diferencia entre un kilo de arroz o un par de latas de leche...

So, Please don't be agarrado, coñete y gasta en el Peru como que si fuese tu ultima visita!

Pola

ergo, no hay entonces porque quejarse si se paga 10 soles por una lustrada, y en lugar de tomar un taxi, coger el micro y comprar todo lo que ofrecen durante el trayecto, y gastar todo lo que llevas en los barrios donde esta la gente mas necesitada. Mi intencion no fue comparar precios, pero comparar Limas, la Lima de los giris y su collera, y el resto, por eso mi mencion del Larco Mar.........

In Peru you must ask first and then close the deal.. I was approached for this guy to do my shoes... I asked him how much?  he said 50 cents... Ok  go ahead.. when he finished I gave him un sol... 50 cents is too cheap and he did a good job anyway... OK OK.. yes,  I've got a local kind of face and the service was not in Barranco or Miraflores, it was in Brena.

Well done Pedrito,and a .50c tip did not hurt your pocket...

I'd imagine,for the most part,the 'cara de gringo' (tourists) don't venture out to Brena. They stick around Miraflores/Barranco and El Centro. Having said that,why would they be asked 10 soles for the same service?
If they all would pay that much in these neighborhoods, imagine the number of 'shoe shiners' and ambulents crowding those main tourist streets. It would be annoying and deterrant to tourism.

WOW... I see you all still talking about the famous shoe shine thing...OK... nothing else in the agenda... at this point we all know that in Peru you have to "negociar" everything... so lets move on...

Not too fast....there is a booklett being worked on for tourist and available to any 'cara de gringo' arriving at the airport. It's titled:"A must to and how to negotiating on the streets of Peru".

tha is a great idea...thanks...

Well, well, well, now we got a lot of coments about getting overcharged for having a "cara de gringo", but what is about having a "cara nacional"?. I am from Lima, from Barrios Altos, and my relatives are spread all over the city, from Comas to Miraflores, my self I live and marry abroad.Let me tell You an incident.
Last 2005 we were visiting the family in Peru, and my children (they are over 20) enjoy all of the family. Well, they got together with my niece from Miraflores, whom took them to a disco. My children feeled like calling two other nieces(from Chorrillos) to join them. At them arrival, they were not allowed in the disco, not because they could not pay the price of the entrance(quite high to peruvian standards), but because "they did not fit in" (esta disco no es para ustedes). And yes, you guess it right, they look like 60% of the population does. Of course they made a mobil call to my son, he got out and got them in, a doorman would not say no to a gringo.
But this is only a small example, if you go to private swimmingpools, some clubs or sport resorts, you will not see a "raza de bronce" in them, and not because they can't afford it, but because they have "cara nacional"(cara sucia?, somebody mention he smells LIMPIO?), and, because there are many peruvians that discriminate their own fellowmem.

CARA DE GRINGO...yeah that happens here a lot!!! I'm from Arequipa and usually when my american boyfriend wants to buy something I have to ask the man or the woman who sells it   imagine!! they wanted to charge for a little bottle of water SAN LUIS s/. 4.00 in Cuzco!! what!!!!!

I sympathize with the young people from Chorrillos whom had to be huzzled just to enter such a nightclub. My opinion is, the managers of these clubs are the ones who want to keep an "image"....dress code and appearience. I'm almost sure if the club was located in another part of Lima, it woulnd't have those 'rules'.

It can be called discrimination, but as an owner,they can refuse entrance to anyone...it's their business.

So, you're right, the more "cara de gringo" and dressed up like one....there will not be any huzzle at the door. ('Dress to impress and play the part').