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On April 2nd 2008, Ed Stafford set out to become the first man to walk the entire 4000 mile length of the Amazon river. His trek is meant as an educational tool and to raise awareness for several charities including: ABC Trust, Project Peru, Cancer Research UK, The ME Association, and Rainforest Concern. However, the fact that Mr. Stafford anticipates that this undertaking will probably take him around 26 months, elevates this enterprise above other awareness events. Furthermore, the fact that the Amazon is one of the world's last great frontiers moves this unprecedented trek into a category of its own.

interview by Ben Jonjak /  bj@livinginperu.com

How do you go about planning for an undertaking that will last you 26 months?

I thought it was going to take a year! I've been leading expeditions since leaving the British Army so the planning was easy. Just logistics really. The hard bit was raising the money. Something that is continuing to today as the slow progress means that I'm forever seeking "a bit more."

What do you bring with you in terms of supplies?

There is so much of it I could go on for hours. My pack weighs 31 kilograms without food. When I’m walking I no longer notice it at all. Some of the more interesting items include: a Hennesy Explorer Ultralite (a hammock/tent), Alpacka Yukon Yak (inflatable raft), Splat Carbon fiber paddle, Sony HVR A1E (for filming), Ralph Martindale Machette, and of course, plenty of Duct tape!

What kind of problems are you running into?

People who are scared/ignorant of gringos. Not all of them are natives, some are mestizos but FAR more people are wary of gringos than I thought.

I assume there aren't corner grocery stores readily available in the jungle, what are you eating?

Breakfast: Fish broth (piranha, trout, catfish, crabs, whatever we catch) and farine. Coffee and lots of sugar.

Lunch: Farine and sugar mixed into a drink with iodinised (purified) water

Supper: Rice and if we have it - some meat (Agouti or similar - dried over the fire) or canned tuna. Coffee and lots of sugar.

How about at night, are you getting enough sleep?

You sound like my Mum. I'm tired but yes I'm getting enough sleep. We are in our hammocks by 7pm each night and up at 5am. That's 10 hours in bed!

What effect has exhaustion had on your travels?

My moods swing a lot at the moment. I can be elated by a good catch of fish and angry the next when I can't get the fire to catch well. I tend to stop talking if I'm really exhausted so that I don't take out my tiredness on other people.

Are you staying warm (more mother sounding questions) and dry?

The Hennessy Hammock is outstanding. So yes - at night I am warm and dry. In the day I am drenched in sweat and water from swamps and rivers.

How is this trek different in reality than how you imagined it would be?

I thought there would be less problems with people. I thought it would be more me against the jungle but the natural jungle is a far lesser worry than the drug traffickers and fierce tribes.

Are you staying near the river, or looking for high-ground?

Over the last month we've just left the river looking for high ground. This followed a spell of 10 days where we averaged 2.5km a day through flooded forest. It was breathtakingly beautiful but stupidly slow. Since then we have been as far as 100km from the main channel and still been wading through swamps. The aim is to walk in the high forest but it's not always possible.

2.5 kilometers a day? How much do you generally average?

We're making about 7km a day as the crow flies. That's probably walking about 10 or 11 as we duck in and out of the flooded areas.

What's the most exciting/dangerous thing that's happened to you so far?

One story...

From Santa Luz on the Ucayali River I asked the Asheninka tribe to radio to the next community, Pensilvania, via the HF radio to ask them for permission to come through. We had permits but it is courtesy and the locals there live in a state of constant alertness against invasion from colonial loggers, farmers and drugs traffickers. The message that came back was loud and clear: "If a gringo comes through we will kill him."

I was walking with a mestizo guide at the time and we both decided that we wouldn't call their bluff and so we inflated our rafts and paddled across to a sandy island and tried to bypass the community walking on the island in the middle of the river.

As we reached the downstream tip of the island and were ready to cross back we looked behind us and there were five dugout canoes full of Asheninkas who were standing up holding their weapons. All the men had shotguns or bows and arrows, all the women had machetes. As they landed on the island they all ran at us. They were in a state of worked-up panic and were very volatile. The look on some of the women's faces was terrifying - they looked like they were eagerly waiting for the chief to give the go-ahead to kill.

After much calm explaining that I was a tourist and was here with permits to walk the river, we were told we had to accompany the community members to their settlement. They would decide our fate there. We had our bags completely gone through and a couple of smaller items taken such as machetes. Over time though, the anger and fear in the people faded and they became less volatile and we knew we were not going to be killed.

The community turned out to be another, "Nuevo Pozo," not Pensilvania at all, but I have no doubt that although we got through it without incident, the people from the community embarked towards us in their canoes ready to kill us had they needed to.

Maybe you should do this with an army next time. How many people are normally with you?

Usually I'm walking with Cho (long-term since August), and two local guides (natives or whoever knows the area well - often loggers, sometimes ex-drugs runners). So usually 3 people with me (team of 4 including me).

Are you meeting people/friends from the UK at various points along the way?

It was never planned like that from the start but yes. An old school friend is about to come out and walk 5 months with me. He's a Shaolin warrior monk now and it will be great to walk with an old friend. Also had 2 journalists and 2 photographers come out for the Guardian, Men's Journal magazine. That was fun. I stop thinking about myself because I switch into guide mode and look after them. Its a nice change.

How much different would this journey be if you had no access to internet/modern technology?

Its just the GPS that changes how I would undertake the expedition. The sat phone etc don't play a part - they are just extra things I have to do at the end of the day. Without the communications equipment no-one would know what I was doing but I would be doing the same stuff. The GPS however changes the exped itself. I can map rivers where I don't have maps using tracking, I can log communities if I go ahead in a boat on a river on a resupply trip. Its fantastic. Without it we could work off the maps and compass but it would be far more tedious and slow.

Tell me more about the indigenous people you have met.

Quite a broad question! I have been surprised how many have been scared of me. In the Ene I had to extract several times when communities threw me out for various reasons. One of which was that they thought I was from an Argentinian oil company Pluspetrol, and the community threw water over me and concrete and stuffed concrete mix in my mouth. They were just protecting their land so I didn't get angry - it was fantastic that they wanted to preserve their culture and their land. The oil company is probably there now - they have the extraction rights - I have no idea how the situation developed after I left.

I have also been surprised how many have been incredibly kind. After the story about Pensilvania we actually walked with the chief and his brother as guides for the next 48 days and became great friends. They went home happy with a new outboard motor for their village.

This trek must be a dream come true for you.

Yep. But I have a much bigger dream for my next exped...

Which is?

Top secret.

How is the Ed Stafford that began this journey different from the man you are now?

My table manners are definitely worse! No - I've not been pushed as hard as I have been in previous parts of my life (when in the military), so I haven't changed that much. I live day to day in a slightly animalistic state of walking and eating and lighting fires and sleeping. Its very simple life but I'm always dragged back to normality by the laptop and having to manage the expedition over the Internet. There are lots of people involved, web designers, editors, PR people, sponsors, charities, press, supporters, family... all need constant nurturing to ensure the wheels don't fall off the expedition and that all has to be done from the field via BGAN, Macbook, and solar rolls!

How do you think you will be further changed as a result of this trek?

I think that if I come out of the Brazilian jungle without at least 3 very close run-ins with loosing my life I'll be lucky. No Brazilian I have met yet thinks that the expedition is possible. I have been told I will die too many times to remember. Maybe they are right - but if I don't die I think I will emerge from the jungle with more confidence than I've ever had in my life before. I will be able to tackle any situation - I can already feel this creeping in!

Would you call this a spiritually cleansing journey?

Its a nice place to be able to look at your own life from with a perspective unachievable when immersed in oneself in the UK. I have a very clear plan for the next 5 years and I am more motivated than ever to succeed.

Ed's Charities:

Project Peru

The ME Association

Action for Brazilian Children

Rainforest Concern

Cancer Research UK

Be sure to check out Ed's blog for updates on his amazing journey!

Photos by Keith Ducatel

tags : indigenous Ucayali Asheninka Santa Luz

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10 Comments

# Pía says :
18 March, 2009 [ 03:27 ]

Eli, por si te interesa

# Enrique Góngora says :
19 March, 2009 [ 01:58 ]

Excellent expedition; it will raise awareness among people of all ages and cultures about how vulnerable we've made our planet's ecosystems (including its inhabitants!)

All the best for Ed Stafford and his team!

Enrique Gongora

# jorge Meneses M. says :
19 March, 2009 [ 06:49 ]

Eduardo: What a great n trip to the last frontier. Do you have zoologists & biologists n other scientists in ur team?
Raising awareness about the Amazonas is a lifetime journey. Pls team up w the man who swam the entire lenght of this magnificent river. He by water, you by land (title of your book) J. Cousteau did have some amazing discoveries too.
GRACIAS TO ALL YOU COURAGE PEOPLE with cojones.
Jorge Peruano
PD: YES, you'll live to tell the story-Worlwide talks at the end of ur trip.

# Michael Langford says :
19 March, 2009 [ 08:27 ]

Fantastic! Wish Ed the best of luck for the remainder of his odyssey.

Mike Langford

www.mikeoonlocation.com

# Michael Langford says :
19 March, 2009 [ 08:29 ]

Fantastic! Wish Ed the best of luck for the remainder of his odyssey.

Mike Langford

www.mikeonlocation.com

# Splaktar says :
22 March, 2009 [ 11:56 ]

Good luck.  It sounds about as I would have expected so far.  Life in many parts of South America is a struggle to survive.  Local villages only continue to exist through the might and will of the townspeople.  There is no gov't to protect them, raise their kids, heal their sick, or build them houses.

I hope you make it, but like has been said surviving would be a surprise to many people.

# Vera Luna says :
22 March, 2009 [ 06:54 ]

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I find it a great adventure to be able to do what this man is doing. On the other hand, I understand and simpathize with the people who do not trust him. In my country, we have a history which has shown us that most white people are evil. It is not being racist, it is the sad truth. So the fear and hate of the people is justified. Also if we see how bad people with dark skin are treated everywhere, specially when they are immigrants, I feel like telling this man: Hey gringo, what are you doing in my country? You came here without needing a visa, and now you just go wherever you want, whereas anyone who wants to go to your country, has go to through a lot of paperwork just to stay there as a tourist, and what to say if he or she wants to stay and work, almost impossible nowadays. So my conclusion would be to tell all these gringos who come to our countries, to be more compassionate when we do the opposite, or better than compassionate, TO TREAT AS AS WHAT WE ARE, EQUALS.!!!

# Lorrie says :
25 March, 2009 [ 06:11 ]

# jorge Meneses M. says :
25 March, 2009 [ 09:30 ]

Eduardo: Your feat is BIGGER than any demagogerie, race,visas & other crap...your mission is beyond some people's comprehension. Vamos, show US ALL You can do it and let's see if we listen to improve our amazing Amazonas...
Jorge

# Melanie Gow says :
13 June, 2009 [ 05:59 ]

What a great interview and we are lucky to be able to follow one of the last great adventures left on this planet thanks to 2.0 technology. Thanks for the interview ;)

 

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