Living in Peru : your everyday companion

Doe Run Peru emits 1,070 cubic meters of toxic smoke daily

Living in Peru
Israel J. Ruiz

Doe Run Peru's poly-metallic smelting plant in La Oroya, a town in the highland region of Junin, emits 1,070 cubic meters of toxic smoke everyday, affirmed Washington Mori Andrade, the executive secretary of an environmental group in the region.

According to Mori, the toxic smoke given off by the plant contains fifteen metals that are dangerous to people's health.

It was reported that in the past few days pollution has been worse and despite the fact that citizens are used to the smell of sulfur, they have had to cover their mouths and noses because of increased contamination to the town's air.

Mori explained that the smoke emitted by Doe Run Peru's smelter contained sulfur dioxide, lead, cadmium, zinc, arsenic, molybdenum, mercury, barium, beryllium, cesium, cobalt, platinum, antimony, thallium, tungsten and uranium.

The executive secretary added that this information had been confirmed by the Saint Louis University, which has done research in the highland region.

In response, Kaimer Dolmos, an engineer at Doe Run assured that the concentration of gas registered in the area was due to cold weather and a lack of wind.

"The problem is momentary," said Dolmos.

He explained that the company had invested $29 million in the construction of a new sulfuric acid plant that is reduce pollution and be ready by the end of September.

"With these state-of-the-art installations, emissions of sulfur dioxide will be reduced up to 60 percent and there will be a cleaner environment."

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# paul says :
20 August, 2008 [ 11:47 ]

Like someone said before .. where are the fines?  Why arent they being shut down?  They are actually saying.. "yep you got us.  But you know were working on it, but in the meantime we will continue to pollute.  Thanks for understanding".

I doubt they will shutdown or fine anyone.  Imagine how upset the big mining multinationals would be knowing that their "donations" to corrupt politicians, were not greasing the wheels as they should.  

Now we couldn`t have that.  What is it they say on the mining and energy ministry sponsored TV adds... Peru Avanza!  Well for the the dodgy politicians and big business its certainly Advancing. 

I came accross this news story on the BBC a month or so ago.  It got very little exposure on national news or local channels... I wonder why?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7460364.stm

Peru is selling itself out.  Effectively it sold the mountain for $400 per tonne, and this is estimating extraction costs, where in the market price on the day of the sale was $8200 per tonne.  That is more than a 2000% profit. 

In reality, 2000% is a huge underestimate as you also have to factor in the projected surge in raw metal prices over the next 20 years it will take to extract. 

Bargain of the century, well done China.    Why not think ahead Peru?  Drive a harder bargain?  Perphaps consider investing in the technology to mine extract and sell your own raw materials?   Take a loan from he IMF or Wolrd Bank to do it. 

Because, that would mean no massive backhanders and bribes for politicians.  Imagine they might even have to earn their money honestly.   I would love to have a sneak peak at Garcia and cronies Swiss Bank accounts.  Its one of the saddest things about Peru, as someone said on another thread, there is a huge culture of thinking only for today, and thinking only for yourself.  I realize for many that is a consequence of extreme poverty, but politicians have no excuse.

# christine schmidt says :
20 August, 2008 [ 14:26 ]

rural area- no correction ortografy program
Finally there is more sensibility for enviormental cuestions- Here some Adds. Basically Peruvian news reported about events in the Amazone. In Caraz – part of Anckash region there are problems with water since several years.Several dayes ago there was a big meeting in caraz because many people claim water shortages and  critizized the privatisation from laguna Paron- part from nacional park Huarasacaran and ubicated in tourist area to a private company to win energy . Acording to the information given the Laguna is privatized since several years- The deal was done by one of former local autorities.Peruvian locals are really mad about the issue and many citizans are afected- the laguna right now is taken by people from the mountins and the problem with the water still remains unsolved. Eye whitness reported that Laguna paron is now under the half from its former level and there are rumores that more water is taken out from the laguna to win energy than allowed.
There were also public informations about about possible mistakes in the actions of privatisation-selling  of this nature resource like the missing of making studies about enviormential impact in the area before (something what the peruvian law seems to implicate before such a contract).

# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 14:56 ]

Help! Help!
Where the h*7% is the government to protect Peruvians? Where is Allan and company? Minister of the environment???
This is what Peru is all about...exploitation of resources, cheap labour, ...No one cares about the Peruvians breathing freaking sulfur!!!!

# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:05 ]

How Ironic,
Recently I visited one state-of-the-art Canadian mine, the Nickel mine in Sudbury, Canada. I was amazed by how miners are protected from dangerous chemicals, weight, etc., etc., How the Canadian government makes efforst to protect the environment, etc., etc.

Now, here in my homeland,  a company is doing what they could not do in North America, I am sure. But, we are cheap, us stupid, poor Peruvians. We just run like chickens while our lungs burn with freaking sulfur oxide.

Boy, am I depressed.

# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:08 ]

I don't think anyone can deny that Allan's government is doing NOTHING to protect our environment from mininig corporations.
FOr the first time ever, I ask myself, would EVO care more for his environment? What about Ollanta?

# Paul says :
20 August, 2008 [ 16:17 ]

I dont know if Evo or Humala would protect the poeople more, but I do think they would try to get better value for money from the contracts awarded and  mass sale of natural resources.  However, I think the money still would be syphoned via corruption, regardless of political ideology. 

# christine schmidt says :
20 August, 2008 [ 16:51 ]

Rice and sugar- I like your irony- I really do that you have to believe- well – I have to write without ortigrafic correction program. Sorrywhen I  take a sharp look to Evoland or what happens in the rest of Latin America - what we have there in some places high inflation, controll over press and signs of dictatorship.
In some other places  countries were not yet it is clear in which direction they will go and if they will fall into an extrem direction of controlled societies or if they will develope quite in between moderat left wing governement ruling by allowing investment tocome.In Evoland there definitly we have a case- Bolivia is in a dangorous way devided . What might come next-  civil upprisings in some regions and from my point of few conditions for lets just name it "not pacific conflicts". Than business like usual- people fighting each other , bloodshit ,countries in collaps and so on- and enviorment- well you just look to countries were civil wars happened- mine fields and contamination. And I can assure- enviorment will not be a cuestion there. But lets go just for maths and by logic - Evo has more aproval like Alan Garcia - as a matter in fact he has more than 50 percent approval, the poor people like him very much , also mister Correa from Ecuador has more aproval than mister Garcia. Mister Garcia is estatisticly in the last line of aproval in South America. Mister Lugos (former priest)from paraquay strated as left wing moderate and also has high aproval because he resigned all income- well we see what will happen there in near by future. But bag to bolivia-When I traveld Bolivia many years ago I was shocked about the extreme difference between very rich and hudge amount of extrem poorness. And I remember in my diary I wrote- this cant go well. 14 years ago. It was visible what will happen one day and the people in chargeprovocated with their behaviour and missmanagment the outcome.Now they have the answer. And even that I dont chare the ideology of Mister Chaves or Mister Morales-I have to be fare-if I would have born as a very poor indian girl in Bolivia or Ecuador - prob. I would also fall into themBecause poor people left out from accses to education fall easy in anyIdeology. But my destiny was diffrent- and therefore my diffrent projections.Everyone has a diffrent opinion which comes as result of own  life experiences and the really true is in trying to find that what comes most near to it  and this everyday.  (Gandhi  sad once- finding this true Is the most nearest to find spiritual peace)
The idea of true democracy is written in many constitutions of advanced democracy- the idea is about respect- opportunity , freedom of speach and religion, about Justice and against exclusion- nothing more and nothing less.And reading this constitutions and comparing what is ongoing in Peru- is here true democracy – the answer is no. And when no matter where half of populations feel themselfe excluded from opportunities and left behind than happens what should not happen- theyStart to question the idea of democracy.
This happens here in Peru too and not since yesterday and believe me I know what I am speeking about because I connect my self with all social levels- from rich to very poor.  
Many times I ask myself why Peruvians have alwayes to get corrupted politicians as chief comanders- is this wanted¿and who wants it that way- I mean it is not smart because really smartness is also about being good and planning for the future and not only short terms.
This in our times has to include enviorment after what happen in Afrika, in new orleans and in many other places. 
Because if it does not- we have here little Kongo- than when all the gold is gone (about 15 years ) , and when more serious dammage happened. and it is sad because the really richness of Peru is not the gold but the enormes naturl resources- one of the richest on earth. Look I saw so many corrupted people in Peru, rich people who spend on one day 50000 dollar in a social event like nothing happened and later on were jailed on corruption acts and their family members go on to give their mediocre opinions as little faliled radio stars, I saw knee falls of actual politician  to become prime minister infront of someone who is sitting for high corruption acts in peruvian jail-and so on so on
and here in the poor moutains I saw very poor people charing between 3 one meal- exactly this it is what makes Peru fall politicallly appart- little by little. and this is a sad thing to watch. 
In advanced democracies people love their millionaires- they admire them because of their achievments under the rules of law!Nobody questions them and in many cases they are loved like stars. Here  in Peru because in many cases richness comes as result of corruption and steeling and destruction of natural enviorment they are hated- and this gives dangerous potencial for the future.Peruvian people even not educated are smart people and especially in rural zones they care very much about their enviorment- and is only logic that when they dont fell any pocket in their hands from the richness taken out from their country that they get mad –and much more when their land is left behind destructed and their kids are contaminated like it seems to happen in many places in Peru.

# Jorgío says :
20 August, 2008 [ 21:31 ]

There are many ore mines in Peru that suffer conditions like La Oroya. The problems begin with the nonsense of authorities. I'm writing from Cajamarca. And the problem y growing up because of irresponsible mining operations.

Did you know "La Oroya is one of the most contaminated place in the world"?

If politicians continue with this posture it is probable that our rivers, valleys and all of their inhabitant will die soon. Included us.

Finally i think that Humala will be worst, because his point of view is  very retrograde.

Best greetings... :(

# rice and sugar says :
21 August, 2008 [ 08:49 ]

I think Paul is right, probably EVO would try to protect his lands a bit better than Allan, but the money would still go else where.

If the current government is doing NOthing to protect our environment (our future), then for the first time, I would like a candidate who perhaps more "nationalistic", Not an Evo, but definitely not an Allan.

Christine, your comments sound somehow reasoable. I don't like Evo or Ollanta, by the way. You have not told me if you liked Trujillo.

# rice and sugar says :
21 August, 2008 [ 09:36 ]

Have you guys seen The Story of Stuff? It's an American scholar - Annie Leonard- she explains really well the effects of consumerism on the global environment, particularly in third world countries...She is funny too

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

Annie Leonard is an American scholar on international trade, development, international sustainability and environmental health issues.^[1] She is most known for her web-based documentary The Story of Stuff about the life-cycle of goods and services.

# Tom Kruzen says :
21 August, 2008 [ 10:20 ]

This comes as no surprize to me. Here in Missouri Doe Run officials find no problem with blaming the victims. They have for decades blamed the people in Herculaneum  (smelter town like La Oroya) for not washing their hands and feet. You see, from their point of view, it's the townspeople who drag the contamination into their homes...not wonderful Doe Run who dumps it all over the streets, in the air and in the water!

Doe Run is a hideously bad company, whose owner, Ira Leon Rennert, likes to pretend he is a moral human being, making millions at other's expense. In fact, if one is poisoning thousands of people and causing them great harm, one isn't much better than any of the jetsom and flotsom of history such as Pinochet, Hitler, Stalin or the Borgias. Since Doe Run says it's only "a momentary problem", perhaps everyone just needs to stop breathing!
-Tom Kruzen
Mountain View, Missouri

# Neil Ringdahl says :
21 August, 2008 [ 14:27 ]

Reading through some of these posts Im shocked at the naievity and ignorance some of you seem to have.

Did any of you read the part where Doe run said they are going to have a plant in place deal with the pollution problem up and running in September? Given La Oroya is an environmental disaster, at least something is being done about it. The new environmental affairs department in Peru is making it very difficult for new mines to start up, including Morrococha. The new laws are basically the same as the Canadian environmental laws, and take full cognisance of the environment, and impacts on the communities. Still, I have to say I am horrified by the way the Doe Run representative seems to poo poo the complaint. It hardly what I would call a responsible approach that many mining companies now take.

It may interest you that no new mine can be started in Peru, until a public hearing has taken place, chaired by the environmentalists where the publics concerns are aired, and if the company cannot address it, they have to go back and make a plan, and reconvene the hearing until all stakeholders are satisfied.

So the way forward is going to be much better from an environmental and social point of view. There is still the problem of the historical mines having to sort out their issues, and we need to put pressure on them to do so, but even this is changing, as can be seen in the above article.

I would like to point out that there are some mining companies who are putting a lot back into the country, Antamina is one of them for example. All mining companies by law have to give back to the communities and apart from the government royalty, 8% of the profits must be paid out to the employees.

Paul, while I agree with you that Morococha going to the chinese is a bad thing you really need to get your facts straight:
 
They have a reserve of around 1 billion tons at around 0,9% copper. Seems like a lot of money, and it is, but you need to consider the basic facts of running a mining business too. One ton of the copper ore at these grades only contain 9 kilograms of copper.

After Mining losses (10%), concentrator recovery (70-80%),  refining charge and selling costs (15%), royalties (3%) you´ll only be able to squeeze 42% of the metal out of that ton or 3.8kg. So your revenue before taxes, deprecitation, capital, employee profit sharing etc etc is going to be around USD25 for that one ton of rock (USD6700/tonne Cu) .

Your operating costs to mine it will come in around about USD2.70 (todays oil price is high, and you need to move a ton of waste out of the way to get the ore) treatment costs will be around $7-8 mark and you operating overhead will be something like $2, so your PROFIT before taxes, deprecitation, capital, employee profit sharing etc etc is simply your revenue minus your costs, which comes to say USD12 for that one tonne. Not quite 2000% profit old chap! : )

Then you need to factor in a capital investment of 1.7billion dollars, jobs for 5,000 employees, spin off job creation and work for at least another 10,000 people, and you have a significant contribution to the Peruvian economy. All of which will take at least three to four years to realise and another 3-4 years to actually pay back the capital.

And because its under the new law, it will have to be done properly with as small an impact as possible on the few people living in the area, and of course on the environment.

If you still object to this whole mining thing, then I suggest by way of your objection you stop using copper zinc & lead products, your laptop, your car, you cellphone, your tv, your microwave, your art products, basically your current ignorant lifestyle and return to some kind of a subsistence lifestyle where you do not need the assistence of society.

But to be more reasonable, it would be far more beneficial to the whole process if you got actively and constructively involved with new mining projects to try and help the miners supply the metals we need with a minimum impact as possible: I think you will find in many cases that your advice would be welcomed with open arms. This to me is far more beneficial that raising up psychotic retoric in a forum that is not likely to change anything very much at all.

A final note: The in my experience BBC are notoriously inaccurate and wildely ill informed on many mining environmental issues, often misquoting the misguided and not providing a balanced view all for the sake of selling print. I would rather go with the fact supported statements of the NGO´s in the area balanced with a view from the mining company and what they plan to do to address the problem.

# rice and sugar says :
21 August, 2008 [ 14:52 ]

Neil Ringdahl,
Your whole long comment sounds like you "know-a-lot"

I don't have time to comment on all of it, just one question...you wrote:
"It may interest you that no new mine can be started in Peru, until a public hearing has taken place, chaired by the environmentalists where the publics concerns are aired, and if the company cannot address it, they have to go back and make a plan, and reconvene the hearing until all stakeholders are satisfied."

Environmentalists? who are they exactly? are they teethless, Peruvian peasants who know nothing about mining chemistry and or health and pollution? Are they innocent, malnourished children who may claim that their pond not be taken away?
PUblic concerns are aired? WHo exactely is your "public" here? I know my people. I know my peasant countrymen. They would not have a clue about pollution.

Look at this fine example of public opinion. Who are those environmentalists you are talking about? Give me one name to contact and verify your information?
http://www.livinginperu.com/news/7170

My father was a mining engineer, and my sister (industrial engineer) worked in Antamina for 2 years. Don't you try lie to me, and tell me that Peru has the "same canadian standards"! I have visited Canadian mines myself, and I also know Peruvian miners who have died of lung cancer!

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# John says :
21 August, 2008 [ 16:15 ]

I have to come to Neil's defense here. I notice, for one thing, that he uses a name that is probably real. And his information is real, because I have had to prepare a 250-page environmental impact statement just to drill a few holes from two platforms, and this is on a property that is nowhere near to being a mine, it's just for basic exploration. And I have had to organize two community meetings so far, with more to come in the future. For more information on the hoops that developers must jump through today, please enquire at the Ministerio de Energia y Minas. At the community level, the Company must provide the services of an independent university-educated and accredited Environmental Specialist, a Sociologist, and an Archeologist. Also, the government demands that at least one representative of the Ministerio de Minas be present to verify that information on the project is transparent.

Rice and Sugar, I am not impressed with your low opinion of your own countrymen (peasants). I have met many "uneducated" campesinos in my fourteen years working in the sierras who I consider to be some of the wisest people I have ever known. Of course, as in any country, I have also met my share of imbeciles. And you know what, there are not so many people in Canada who typically know a whole lot more about pollution that your typical Peruvian. And you know what, I know Canadian miners who have died of lung cancer. I also know Canadian miners who have died in automobile accidents, and a lot of Peruvians who have died in bus accidents. What's your point?

Anyways, dialogue is good, and I hope that we all can learn how to distinguish between responsible development and pillage.

# CapitanDan says :
21 August, 2008 [ 16:22 ]

Rice and Sugar, Neil could be right. The same laws could exist, but as you and I know getting them enforced is another story. Chau.

# christine schmidt says :
21 August, 2008 [ 16:31 ]

Very good ads and comments- Nobody can deny – contamination of environment is becoming a mayor topic- but before it should come mayor topic what made it possibleCorruptionSomeone who offers bravery and someone who takes- Both sides are same guilty.To my special sugar and rice (last is basic nutrition) very short- Yes Trujillo still comes for me good even after my experiences there- don’t suffer Alzheimer and remember quit well that there were many comments in newspapers about it- Later on when I run for a better justice system in Bride closing (and this in serious advanced age ) I found postings on the red that my run was only for extradition from mister Fujimorie (former president who started well and promising and ended up terrible is now jailed and under investigation and public opinion gets softly prepared for his daughter )  and guess what – newspapers owned by the same owner ! put in one of their paper a comment that  “I didn’t want to give any comment about him  “ and in the other newspaper a complete different version that I run for is extradition- could it be manipulation from public opinion-my run was politically used- to repeat-
 I run for a better justice system who does not protect crimes and gives raped, sheeted , stolen victims the reason of law.But anyhow besides of being sarcastic and very very sad about my disappearing Laguna in the mountains (it is my home- and everyone should protect his home) lets just be optimistic-so I found my own proposals about introductions of satellites in anticrime enforcement on the red (did he had not some kind of accusations for possible human right abuses?) – from second vice president mister Giampietri - well what he does not say is that actually I proposed voluntary!! satellite observation from all authorities!!!- as much as open bank accounts and much more nice stuff. And guesses what All of you- I did it with my house number and still alive. Satellites are funky- there is no escape- you see from screwing rabbits until cel numbers everything-If you want to see it.Well there we are- I wish (as a good Christian not guided by rage  mister Garcia that he overcomes his huge  problems of wide spread mistrust in the population, I wish him that he does not need to go in exile to France (weren’t there some pictures about some movements on the roof in this time) I really wish him that  he uses less long speeches and birds to convince Peruvians from his ideas – that he starts to do sport because he good in a dangerous way weight and I wish him also less drinking with national soul drink pisco- does not come convincing-because most Peruvians don’t even know the taste because they have no money.Anyhow- he is in an age were people sometimes forget about their past- when he was introduced first time as young presidential candidate many many years ago in a house  of an high grade ex marine – there was an interesting guest list- he might have forgotten about itOthers did not. Sorry that I was so sharp and change the topic
This is about environment- isn’t- and it?

And in general terms
" it meant to be about doing things right"

# Paul says :
21 August, 2008 [ 16:42 ]

Ring,

 
The below is an extract directly from the BBC website, normally a credible, relatively apolitical and independent source.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7460364.stm


"The Peruvian government is happy with the $3bn (£1.53bn) that Chinalco will invest in the Toromocho mines.

The Chinese will be even happier. They have got themselves a bargain.

The copper Chinalco extracts from Toromocho will cost something like US$410 (£210) per ton. Today, the price for copper on the London Metal Exchange was $8,255 (£4,220) - 20 times more.
Chinalco stands to make a 2,000% profit on its investment".

My interpretation of this as reported here and in other news sources.    2000% profit aint bad business, copper prices considered on the day of purchase by the Chinese,  just imagine where copper prices will be in 10 years.  Through the roof I would imagine, darwfing the original 2000% estimatation.    It is also my understanding that the $410 per tonne quoted above includes extraction.

Do mining companies get that kind of "offer" in other developed countries.. such as Australia?  I would hazard a guess that they do not.

I suppose its okay the Doe Run company that says they hope to partially reduce this pollution by 29th Sept.  Do you hear them saying, "okay folks, as you have pointed out, this pollution is really unhealthy stuff, being the nice company we are we shall stop filling you lungs full of these little nasties until the new plant is open."  ..

Nope.. didnt read them saying that anywhere.

 

You really do blindly support the mining companies practices here in Peru, and lets face who really cares about the "toothless peasants", fingers crossed they wont kick up a stink, or realize that their lack of teeth and burning lungs is from their chimneys, and hope then that if they do realize that they will value thier $200 dollar per month wages sufficiently not to kick up a stink. 

Yeah the mining companies really are the heart and soul of the community.  Just look to Huaraz.  There is a big mining company set up a mile outside of the town.   What did they do?  Join the locals?   Live in Huaraz?  Build the houses, leisure centre, and restaurant for their engineers and foreign workers in the town, alongside the locals and toothless peasants?  I am afraid not.  They built thier own little exclusive town  with all these nice facilities about one mile outside of Huaraz.   Bit of a slap in the face to the locals I would have thought. 

 

Come on bud.  Open you eyes.  We are a long way from Canada.  

# Jorgío says :
21 August, 2008 [ 17:46 ]

There are many POVs, and I like all of your opinions, thanks a lot.

# rice and sugar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 09:40 ]

Christine Schmidt, yes "rice and sugar" is what I define the 1980's in Peru. And yes, it is not a complete nutrition. Get my point?

CaptainDan, I think you are correct. Perhaps we have ON PAPER the same "standards" and "guidelines" that Canadians use for mining and environment. But, they are not followed those guidelines. The reality is that Peru is now a "trash" place for big corporations to make money, at the expense of Peruvian's health!

JOHN, your statement : I am not impressed with your low opinion of your own countrymen (peasants). I have met many "uneducated" campesinos in my fourteen years working in the sierras who I consider to be some of the wisest people...
You are a good guilt-manipulator, hey? My answer to you is "WHATEVER (roll my eyes)...go ahead and pollute for the benefit of consumerism...kill those "wise peasants", destroy their environment, make lots of money...but remember, what goes around, comes around. The Earth is no infinite, and your own American scientists are warning you: what goes around, comes around.
Does the "wise" peasant you know have a laptop with Internet? Does the peasant type and can google on "mine pollution and health"????
You can lie to the "wise" peasant, you can't lie to a geneticist trained in your own country!

# rice and sugar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 09:43 ]

I cannot articulate as well as Paul. Thanks Paul for such great information and good points.

# John says :
22 August, 2008 [ 10:03 ]

Okay, let's talk about pollution. Lima is polluted. Leave a car out on the street, and within a day it is covered with a film of soot. Eight million people in Lima breathe this filthy air. People pollute. They defecate, urinate, consume oxygen, emit carbon dioxide, use vehicles, and generate tonnes of garbage, much of which is toxic. So, let's do the world a favour and shut down Lima?

Let's go a step further. People pollute because they exist. If people did not exist, there would be no pollution (except from natural sources, such as volcanic emissions). So, let's do the world a favour and shut down people. Then we wouldn't need the big, bad mines because there would be nobody who wanted their product.

# rice and sugar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 10:10 ]

The neuron gears beging to roll. Good.
Pollution is human, yes, John. I personally don't have anything agains you or other foreigners (are a you a foreigner?). As I said, in my famility there a few engineers, so I happen to like innovation and progress.
I just hope that you will take all points into consideration, John. You might be a nice guy after all. I just beg you, (yes, I kneel down), consider the health of those peasants when writing your 250 pages report.
Neil Ringdahl is wrong: these peasants do not know any better.

I beg you in the name of those poor children, try to respect the environment. Make mining sustainable in Peru. Please....

# rice and sugar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 10:14 ]

John, you might be the gringo with the power ($$$). I just beg you (I am a simple Peruvian tree hugger, my uncle may have been a toothless Peruvian peasant), I beg you, I implore you: do not destroy our environment, make mining environmentally sustainable in Peru. Give us a future...You and I know: those illiterate peasants do not know any better. Though, they feel, by intuition, that something wrong may be coming to them...and that NO one will care about them

# John says :
22 August, 2008 [ 10:23 ]

John.

Wow... fantastic logic John...you`ve got talent.. lol 

You should work as a lobbyist for the tobacco industry in your spare time.
 
But now I feel really sorry for those poor little misunderstood mining companies.

Come on mate its already gone 10am... wakey wakey. 

# Tom Kruzen says :
22 August, 2008 [ 10:54 ]

With all due respect to my Peruvian brothers and sisters, begging and praying for these mining companies to operate cleanly will not work. They are in it for the money and any regulation, law or fine is a roadblock to more profit. Doe Run doesn't care about Missouri, where they are based and operate mines, mills and smelters. Their 115 year history is filled with damaged lives and poisoned rivers, lakes, air and  soil. So why would they even begin to care about Peruvian lives or environment?

Peru owns the minerals. They belong to the Peruvian people. They should be the ones benefitting from mining, not just a few politicians and mining owners. Simply don't allow your politicians to give them away. I know this is easier said than done but I know many honest, hard-working Peruvians who would make this a reality. If you tell the companies they cannot have the minerals unless they are extracted as clean as possible, then that is the reality they would have to work around. If you let them bribe politicians and let them take the minerals in as quick and dirty way as possible, then that is what you get.

 As for John. Yes, people pollute but people don't have to pollute. They can use resources and clean up after themsleves. They can recycle and re-use and reduce their demand on resources.

Doe Run used to dump its ore carrier tires in Missouri's ditches until I photographed them and spread the photos around. They dumped thousands of barrels of lead and other heavy metal-containing material on the ground in the weather in a pond until I photographed them. They got fined for that. They also got away with illegally releasing fugitive emissions from their Herculaneum smelter until friends and I photographed their deeds after midnight...long after people had gone to bed. Doe Run was made to buy out 160 homes in Herculaneum and clean up hundreds of miles of roadways they dumped lead concentrate on.

People who don't pick up after themselves once are ignorant. People who continue to pollute after they have been shown it is bad are either stupid or are pigs.

# Paul says :
22 August, 2008 [ 10:54 ]

The above comment was mine... apologies.. put the name john in the wrong place. 

# Neil R says :
22 August, 2008 [ 11:19 ]

John, & other thanks for your comments & views.

Each and every one of you on this forum has contributed to this mess we are discussing. Did you know that your laptop, car, cellphone, house, artwork paint all have products that come from Doe Run and other mines in Peru?

I suggest Rice and Sugar unless you have something consturctive to contribute get off this forum and go and live a subsistence life in the hills, making your own bread, cutting down your own trees. It´ll have less of an impact than what you currently have with all your technology and self righteous approach to life the universe and everything. 

That technology you embrace comes from the very mines you abhore, and if you stopped long enough from bragging about your engineering family and thought about it you would realise that I am an engineer, and, qualified and experienced to make the statements I did above. I dont hide behind a nickname, I have nothing to hide unlike yourself, and I certainly dont appreciate being called a lair or insulted in other ways and Im sure John and other dont either. It shows how much of a barbarian you really are.

Tom Kruzen, you sound like an interesting guy who may be able to help me (and the environment) in a constructive way. Do you work for an NGO? Is there anyway I can get a hold of you for some advice?

Thanks in advance,
Neil.

# Tom Kruzen says :
22 August, 2008 [ 11:35 ]

Neil,
I'm just a citizen in the state of Missouri whodidn't want a lead mine in my backyard...especially after I learned how they operate. Yes, I'm a NIMBY (Not In  My  Back Yard) I fought (and continue to fight)the largest lead mining company in Missouri and now the US for 25 years while I was chopping my own wood, gardening organically and living in the woods without electricity. I do use modern convenience now that my kids are grown but I use them wisely and sparingly. I'm all for recycling but not dumping tons of e-waste on places like India or Ghana where people haven't been educated to the risks of heavy metals. In the US we can remine our landfills to recover metals, paper and other substance that we have foolishly buried in big mountainous heaps. We can produce electricity smartly via wind and solar and by designing out homes efficiently. We don't have to mine coal by blowing up mountains.
Technology can be our friend but NOT when it is connected to mere greed as its driving force.

I am a member for the Sierra Club and am a volunteer for their Water Sentinel Program. I also have formed the Ozark Riverkeepers Network and am a volunteer for the Missouri Stream Team Program. I do not speak for those organizations but often work with them to accomplish things. Print out your email address, Neil and I will contact you. My experiences with Doe Run and their ilk have not been all that good and I have been threatened, friends of mine attacked and recently been sent computer viri.

# rice and sugar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 12:34 ]

Dear Neil R.
I know you are a mining engineer. And you are also a gringo with lots of $$$$.
I am, in turn, just a Peruvian who fears their land will be trashed for the benefits of consumerism. Again, you reminding that my laptop contributes to pollution is just another guilt-manipulating trick. Doe Run is emmitting sulfur oxide to the air, "the "wind" just didn't carry it away", what a great excuse!

Perhaps your teeth are nicer than mine. I am Peruvian, but unlike the "wise" peasants you have met, I am educated, but I cannot compete against $$$ owned by Doe Run.
All I can do is to beg. I beg you in the name of all those illiterate Peruvians inhaling sulfur oxide, please make mining in Peru environmentally sustainable.
And don't tell me that those illiterate, malnourished peasants count as  about "public opinion" and as "environmentalists".
You cannot LIE to an educated person.

# christine schmidt says :
22 August, 2008 [ 12:41 ]

-at least finally people start to think-(sorry rural no correction )
to my "basic nutrician men"- christine is my name - simple- not saint but easy to remember - is just fine otherwise I might think I did something very wrong here- did I?
I dont think so.
Well- o am driven by logic and proves- Anyone who wants to see Peruvian mountain reality a little bit can come up to my house- and we walk little bit to the mountains to have convincing talks with the people there - acording to them douring many many years nothing changed but got worse- indoubtless there are some improvments in some costal areas- but no matter who handle over his master chief position- the slums in Lima went bigger after . Now it takes like one hour to see serious stone houses.  
In the area I am right now the last main road was constructed many years ago under Ordria (Caraz chuquigarra )- after all governements promised to finish up and to correct the streets, many did their local campains with it , promises, promises and we even remember little fiestas of street openings which were never done- anyhow we are waiting.  
about our lagune- she is drying out- if nothing is done aboit it in something about 10 years the area will have hudge problems-
I try to compare little bit- this big amounts of Africans dying on European coasts are not only victims of their corrupted home land lords they flet but in many cases also because their homeland was destroyed in consequence of crimes on enviorment.
Some Peruvian press tryes desperatly and I really have to use the word desperatly to warm us up in 2011 mister fujimories daughter which is and there I am fare indoubtless not even antipatic- but anyhow- I am not a wether frog but -  going by logic she will face same proplems like mister Garcia because mister Fujimorie lost at the end of his regime his credibility and no dancing of his second wife of jailed mister Fujimorie on any Peruvian Tribune will help to reinstall big credibility , than we read that Limas Mayor mister Castañeda is very wanted acording to opinion polls - well - was he not the men who had some kind of memory loss whe he was asked about the persons who financed his campaign and rumors about other things - but just be realistic- 
last Dschungel events, the strike waves - the realistic numbers about  aproval and disaproval from present governement and I am quit shure what will happen in near by future. And personally I think a U turn and new aproach iss nesesary tu fullfill the demand from a hudge amount of Peruvians who might be in near by future even be more unquite than they are now. 
This should include serious reforms, autorithy vigilance on all level (bank acount ,satelite ) , strong steps in education, agressiv investment promotion by avoiding eviormental harmmakers (they should be trialed forr their dammage ), infrastructure, and most of all Justice acording to modern democracy.
 

# rice and sugar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 12:55 ]

Neil Ringdahl,
I am not questioning your knowledge in mining engineering. Your argument lost credibility to me when you referred to the peasants as "environmentalists" and "public opionion", etc. That is where your argument falls weak within the educated public opionion.
Like you said it yourself, this forum will change nothing at all ANYWAY.
All I can hope is that you remember in your heart those poor illiterate Peruvians, malnourished and uneducated. You are an Intelligent Mining Engineer, please, please I beg you. If you have any power at all, please make mining in Peru environmentally sustainable and fair for people....PLEASE

# Paul says :
22 August, 2008 [ 13:15 ]

Folks,

No doubt we need mines.  No doubt products in our everyday lives depend on such raw materials.   Nobody is saying dont mine.  People are saying, mine responsably.   Mine to the high standards that you mine in Canada, Europe or Australia.  Stop abusing Peru and other underdeveliped nations and their health, their lack of bargaining power and openess to corruption. Exhibit some social responsibility.   Pay a fair price, or for heavens sake, Peru drive a harder bargain. 

Big corporations dont want regulation.  It is a hinderance to profit.  They buy politicians to evade this. 

There is serious pollution going on in Peru by the mininig companies, that would land the same corporations in court in seconds in other developed countries. 

I for one am happy to see Garcia lose his battle with the people of Peru in attempting to change the law affecting their right to own and control their own lands.  Perhaps if such companies had operated with a conscience in the past 20 years and had not polluted so much, the folks from the Jungle and Highlands would have worked out a deal.  For once it was refreshing to watch people power score a victory over big corporations.

There really is no mess.  The facts are simple.  Companies pollute in Peru, comapnies abuse the system and corruption and the Peruvian goverment facilitates this.  There is no debate on this the evidence is clear. 

# Neil R says :
22 August, 2008 [ 13:49 ]

Rice & Sugar,

Thanks for changing your approach :)

I came to Peru to try and do things properly, to try and make things better. Im a strong believer in doing things the right way and have a heart for the people of Peru, who should be benefitting from mining operations as well.

There is a lot of ignorance here, a lot of mining companies who dont want to change, and a lot of corruption, but despite this I believe that Peru has a great future and I want you to know that I hear you and the cries of others, and I am working hard at making changes you would like to see. Some you will see, and some you won´t.
 
Just know that there are those of us in the industry who are doing things to make things better, please support those of us who are trying and can show they are trying.

# Paul says :
22 August, 2008 [ 14:12 ]

good on ya Neil.  nice to read your honest comments and unbiased approach.

# John says :
22 August, 2008 [ 19:20 ]

Tom
Of course they are in it for the money. That's what capitalism is all about. So it's not just mininig. It's manufacturing and banking and service industries and information industries and the oil industry and agriculture and just about every industry that generates wealth. You say

"Peru owns the minerals. They belong to the Peruvian people. They should be the ones benefitting from mining, not just a few politicians and mining owners. Simply don't allow your politicians to give them away. I know this is easier said than done but I know many honest, hard-working Peruvians who would make this a reality. If you tell the companies they cannot have the minerals unless they are extracted as clean as possible, then that is the reality they would have to work around. If you let them bribe politicians and let them take the minerals in as quick and dirty way as possible, then that is what you get."

I would like to point out to you that the dirtiest mines in Peru, including Cerro de Pasco, were owned and operated by the Peruvian Government (CentroMin). And the mining industry only started to clean up its act when Fujimori invited foreign investment and de-nationalized the mines. As a person who has worked for 14 years in Peru (yes I am a gringo, but I am a gringo married to a Peruvian, with a Peruvian child and every intention of dying in Peru, and I am also independent, no company is taking care of me, I am creating my own wealth, as small as that might be), I am obliged to inform you that almost all Peruvians I have ever met in my professional life here prefer to work with me than with Peruvians. Because I pay better, and because I have respect, and because I care. Now, maybe the wool has been pulled over my eyes for 14 years, but I don't think so. The people who work with me are great.

# Splaktar says :
22 August, 2008 [ 19:30 ]

They need to be shut down completely until those new facilities for reducing pollution are completed.  I'm all for big business and international investment, but they need to follow the laws and if they do not, they should be punished.

# John says :
22 August, 2008 [ 23:18 ]

Neil.
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the time and effort that you expended in your initial response to this "string" of emails. I understand fully that it probably took you quite a few hours to dig up and write up the facts and figures to back up your assessment. And I am also aware that it took most respondents the better part of five minutes to shoot you down (as fast as they could type). I also have taken note of your counter-response to "rice and sugar". Really, I think that it's not worth your effort to even respond. I could tell that you felt hurt, and as much as I understand why, I still think that you should feel proud of what you did. As I am sure you are aware, there are certain people who are jealous, bitter, and ignorant. They can not see that it is even remotely possible that there are educated, caring and responsible human beings out here who are trying to do the right thing. And, of course, it is ten times worse if these caring individuals happen to be financially successful. These nay-sayers are angry souls, searching for anyone to bear the blame for their perceived griefs against the world.

I was delighted to read your positive response to another individual who obviously has valid points, and of your efforts to try to get in touch with this person. We (the mining industry, or any other industry) must work together with intelligent and informed complainants to arrive to a point of mutual understanding and respect.

As depressing as it might get, I urge you to continue this good work. It is apparent to me that both of us want the same thing. We want Peru to prosper. And we care. There are others out here who know that you are not a liar, so don't feel isolated. Take care and God bless. Don't give up.

# Tom Kruzen says :
23 August, 2008 [ 00:35 ]

Fact one:
 Doe Run has polluted and gotten away with ruination of Missouri's environment and the health of its people through lying, cheating collusion with government officials and corrupting politicians.

Fact two:
The same behavior described above has occurred in Peru since Doe Run purchased the CentroMin facilities in 1997.

Fact three:
The owner of Doe Run, Renco=Ira Leon Rennert and his wife Ingeborg are more than just capitalists. They don't honor the unions in their companies, they have procurred most of their companies through junk bond leveraging, they have raided pensions, most of Doe Run's and Doe Run Peru's profits go straight to Rennert. His billions in "profit" go to his lavish lifestyle of building the largest (and ugliest) home in North America with 39 bathrooms and a 100 car garage. He pastes his "morals" (the Torah Ethics Project) all over the internet, trying to claim the moral high ground by claiming that good Othodox Jews like himself treat people equally in the sight of God. He is the largest of hyocrites because he rapes and pillages resources...and poisons people from Missouri to Utah to La Oroya. Ira and Ingeborg sprinkle money around to universities and religeous schools in the US and Israel in an attempt to buy favor before man and his way into heaven. His mentor was Michael Milken, junk bond king, who spent time in jail for his illicit dealings.
 
Fact four:
The history of Doe Run before Rennert wasn't much better than the history of CentroMin in Peru. Mining has always been a dirty business and it has a history and culture of getting all you can at the expense of people and environment. Missouri's most moral writer, Mark Twain, after sour dealings with miners in California, concluded one hundred years ago: "A mine is nothing but a hole in the ground with a liar on top!"

Fact five:
Anger is the appropriate response to the behavior of people like Rennert and companies like Doe Run. They will never "self-correct". They have nor morals or respect for people or laws. Only strict government regulation and enforcement will keep them in tow. Only citizen education and watch-dogging can expose the behavior that is covered up by corrupt politicians and bureacrats. People like Rennert are like cockroaches; they don't like the exposure to light and truth. They belong in jail and their companies need to be confiscated and reorganized in order to operate cleanly and in a moral manner. People who cheat and steal are thieves and people who poison other people are killers, no matter how large their houses are or how much money they give away to politicians.

Fact six:
This discussion need not go on much further. Only judge people by their actions, not their words. (Jesus said that) "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see." (Mark Twain said that)

Suggestion:
Take your camera with you whenever you visit La Oroya. Learn how to take soil and water samples. Take pictures of La Oroya's pollution but also go to unpolluted parts of the Andes and show their beauty. The comparison is stark. La Oroya is so ugly that it can be seen from space!Partner with people who can get the story of La Oroya out to the rest of the world and don't stop talking because some gringo or Peruvian talks sweet. Let your eyes tell the story. Let your camera tell the story. Let the common people in and around La Oroya tell their stories. They are powerful and will eventually persuade people in power to stop the Doe Runs and Ira Rennerts of the world from hurting people in the name of "progress". If the people in power don't respond to the people, you have a right to change those people...a principle extoled by none other than Thomas Jefferson.

# Paul says :
23 August, 2008 [ 02:05 ]

Good points Tom.

# Neil R says :
23 August, 2008 [ 09:03 ]

John,

Thanks for your kind words & support, much appreciated. I´ll be looking out for your at the end of month functions at the California Hotel.

Tom,

Intersting points. The only one I have a problem with is your fact 4, not every mining company is like this. I understand that you are angry, given your personal experiences with this lot, but it doesnt mean you have to paint the whole industry with the same brush.

Your suggestion is very good.

# Tom Kruzen says :
23 August, 2008 [ 11:54 ]

John,
 Show me (I'm from the Show-me state) or name for me a mining company doing it right. In the US we have horrible bad actors like Doe Run and the bankrupt Asarco. Their messes are legendary and terribly persistent. The Canadians came to Summitville, Colorado and mined gold at 12,000 feet and their cyanide pits collapsed into the headwaters of the Rio Grande killing 30 iles of those streams. They went back to Canada with the gold and the money and let the good ole US taxpayer clean up the mess, which has been less than successful. Freeport is abysmal. Australia's BHP is the largest and one of the worst.  Mining is the most destructive human activity and I would venture to say that the majority of mining companies do it quick and dirty without much or any thought to their legacy. Next to mining perhaps globalism and the consumer-driven society are close seconds. They create the demand for "things", which are increasingly designed to fail in months or a couple of years. Funny, lots of "antiques" from the previous centuries were designed to last for centuries. Many of the still work! Please donm't paint me as an "angry" enviro. Prove me wrong by showing me a company who does it safely for the environment as well as the local people and workers.

# John says :
23 August, 2008 [ 19:04 ]

Well Tom, I can't say too much about Doe Run because I don't have the information that you obviously do have. But, I will say that even if you are half right, and I suspect that you are, that you have a valid beef. So, carry on, with my blessing (for what that is worth). Nobody deserves so many gold-plated bathrooms.

I disagree with you that mining is the number one culprit in terms of global pollution. I would suggest that logging and agriculture run a very close first and second. But, we need to be sheltered. And we need to be fed. Somewhere (over the rainbow), we have to provide for our several billions of people. What to do, what to do? The main problem is global over-population. China is probably doing the right thing. We can not go back to living as primitives, but we can not continue living as parasites on Mother Earth. We have to consume less, we have to have a much lower profile.

Do you have kids? I have three, and I worry about the world that they will inherit. I do not want to be rich. When I am on my death bed, (which will not be too far down the road considering that I am 56 years old), I want my loved ones to remember me as a good man, and not a rich man. (no problem there, it won't happen, and I am not particularly wanting for it to happen). I love that bumper sticker that says "whoever has the most toys, wins").

Anyways, it has been a pleasure talking with you. I promise you that I will continue to do my best to do what is right, from the inside. And I stongly suspect that you will continue to do what is right, from the outside, perhaps. And I want you to at least suspect that we are on the same side. Take care.

# Tom Kruzen says :
24 August, 2008 [ 09:33 ]

My last word:
I said that mining is the most destructive practice humans engage in because it disrupts the very earth itself, changes water and air and living systems. It makes the earth much like Humpty-Dumpty. I would not disagree with you on agriculture and logging. Food, shelter and clothing take their toll but their impacts can be drastically reduced.
Especially in the US, we waste most of what we use. We need to turn that totally around. Landfills need to be outlawed. Then we will be forced to reuse everything. Whole industries can be formed around that. Yes, it will reduce or slow down demand for minerals and agriculture but we are easily living beyond the capacity of this planet to supply us.
Yes, we need to get over our reproductive mayhem. People who live in 3rd world countries where many children die of water-born and other preventable diseases tend to have more children. In the Industrial world our recent slide and dumbing down into the Eleventh Century (the bush years) has seen that we are the only industrial nation with an increase in population. Education, reducing disease and dire poverty need to come to all parts of humanity. About the only thing China has done right in recent history has been to stick to a one child policy. The entire world could do that for 10-20 years and maybe then bump it up to a two child policy, strictly enforced and maybe excepted only if a child dies.
 The Green Movement in the US is just beginning but it needs to be our main focus for the next ten years. Our carbon and other footprints need to be greatly reduced. An older couple like me and my wife do not need 5000 sq feet to live in, maintain and heat. Ira Rennert could certainly do with less. One can only use one bathroom at a time! As we build and produce our homes and things smarter, we'll have less of an impact on the Earth. We, in the first world, can learn much from our indigenous brothers and sisters on how to live frugally, yet comfortably. Mud huts aren't all that bad and we see people using rammed earth, adobe and other earth-derived substances combined with better insulative and heating technologies. Straw bale homes are in our own history and once again beginning to be used. As for bumperstickers, my favorite is: " Live simply, that others may simply live"

# Roque R says :
25 August, 2008 [ 17:18 ]

I believe the current government has made some positive moves while trying to withstand the fast globalization forces working upon them.  I think they are in dire need of legal and profesional assistance to manage their assets (mining, oil & gas, highways, airports, etc).  If they don't know what they have how can they sell it properly.   The creation of the Minister of the Environment is also good news for Peru.   A solid foundation of environmental regulation supported by a legal framework should be an objective for this and the next government.  Where are the environmental attorneys in Peru?  In the USA they will be salivating with the prospect of sueing Doe Run.

We are now facing the increasing growth of a hungry China, who like other countries are fast becoming.industrialized.  But China reminds me of a cartoon I watched with my daughter a couple of weeks ago.  A cartoon character buys a pet in a store and is warned to read the instructions before feeding the animal. Obviusly, the owner does not read the manual and the pet starts growing and eating the entire city.  In reality the manual ought to be the Peruvian Environmental Laws.  And the pet is the mining industry.  One of the reasons mining development is controlled in the USA and UK is that there are environmental laws and regulatory agencies working to monitor the pollution and enforce the law.  Mining has been good to Peru and will continue to do so because we are blessed with a geology condusive to mineralization.  In addition, USA and first world countries have environmental attorneys who will not let bid pockets corporations such as mining companies escape without proper compensation.  The scenario is one of balance, where forces interacting at all times.

I am hydrogeologist originally from Peru who has worked in the pollution assessment and clean-up for years and can tell you that the pollution has been generated for generations in our country and will remain in the ground for more generations until we accept our realities and live with them.  It is now that the numbers come out, but the damage has been done previously.  As in any health process, the patient has to face the problem first.   Peru is starting to face the problem, but the problem is not mining my friend.  

 

# John says :
25 August, 2008 [ 21:34 ]

Okay Tom.

My last word as well. I'm tired. Thanks for your effort, I very much appreciated it. I think that the world is a better place because people like you are in it. So,take care.

# Tom Kruzen says :
25 August, 2008 [ 22:54 ]

Roque R fails to understand the historical perspective that mining has played in the US. For too long mining has corrupted government and still corrupts bureaucracies. Laws are only as good as those who enforce them. In the US, the current administration has given polluters a green light to return to the good ole days before they were restrained by laws. An educated public definitely plays a big part in what a society does. Mine owners such as Ira Rennert are laughing all the way to the bank. The coal mine collapse in Wyoming a couple of years ago was likewise caused by a greedy owner, allowing the mine pillars to be mined out as the company abandoned a shaft. The resulting collapse killed miners and rescuers. As long as mine owners are allowed to continue their "culture" of extraction at any cost, there will be endemic problems with mining.

# CapitanDan says :
25 August, 2008 [ 23:48 ]

Tom, I applaud your stance. My Father and I have a large farm where the mining interests want to strip the land, because the coal is only 6 feet under the ground. My Father and I have agreed to forgo these monies for the sake of the land and our neighbors. We can drink the pure water as it bubbles from the ground. The only place in the Appalachians where this is possible. We have seen the reclamation and restoration projects in the U.S. and as the Native Americans said, "White man speaks with fork tongue". As of today our land is still clean and absorbing it's fair share of the worlds Carbon Footprint.The Long Wall mining method you refer to has caused much damage and the government picks up the tab freeing the mining interests from their responsibilities. Chau My Friend

# rice and sugar says :
26 August, 2008 [ 09:09 ]

Neil and John,
I started exchanging ideas with both of you regarding this mining issue in Peru; and as a Peruvian, of course my first reaction was very defensive of our environment and our people.
But as one of you said, this forum will not change anything at all after all. After reading your different responses, which also included your own frustrations (frustration is human, so don't feel bad), you both sound like you could be good guys after all. You have an interesting position right now.

Perhaps YOU could make a difference.

So, I urge you, I ask in the name of most uneducated, illiterate Peruvians (which are most of us), that you plan for sustainability in Peru. I trust that as educated engineers / professionals you are, you know about the Earth and how everything goes around in circles in our planet. I trust that you will plan for environmental sustainability and employment justice for the mines in Peru. I thank you in advance for that. I thank you for your thoughts and comments.
I have to tell you that, as for most Peruvians, we do NOT trust that our governments will protect our interests. So, the job you have is actually quite complex. You have to respond to your employer, and as human beings you have the world asking you for environmental sustainability. NOt an easy job. But, I wish you courage and all the best.

# Neil R says :
26 August, 2008 [ 10:15 ]

Thanks Rice and Sugar,

We can´t solve all the the problems, but we will certainly try. If we all survive the world credit crunch coming upon us I trust you will remember this conversation when you see my name in some positive press about mining here in Perú.

Muy amable, muchas gracias ustedes.

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