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Chile's beefed up military presence worries Peru

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Chile's 'mass purchase' of arms has Peruvian diplomats worried.

© U.S. Air Force

(LIP-jl) -- Peru's Chancellor Jose Garcia Belaunde expressed his concern over Chile's 'massive purchase of military arms' and their proximity to the Peruvian border.

According to a report from Chile's La Tercera newspaper, the Chilean Air Force incorporated 12 new F-16 warplanes into its forces located near its border with Peru and Bolivia, which is part of a large scale phase to improve it current military force.

"We have already expressed our concern over Chile's large scale purchase of arms," said Garcia to reporters who also mentioned such acquisitions "undermine the region's military balance."

The Chancellor assured the press that he has not received any type of conformation from Chilean authorities regarding the transfer of eight F-16 Fighting Falcon warplanes to Chile's Antofagasta Air Base, as claimed by Chilean newspaper La Tercera.

Garcia plans on bringing up the topic of military spending during his next meeting with his Chilean counterpart, Alejandro Foxely, and with Defense Ministers from both countries.

He added that he briefly met with Foxley during the recent South American Energy Summit held in Venezuela, where he "openly and frankly talked about every important issue" with the Chilean Chancellor.

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	Chile moves new F-16s near border with Peru (by LIP, 17 April, 2007)
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# Jet says :
3 September, 2007 [ 03:02 ]

If Peru doesn't wake up and come up with it's own military modernization programme, soon it will find that Chile will enforce it's economic "interests" and Peru will find that it will be on the loosing side of negotiations with Chilean companies that do business in Peru.  Soon the ports of Arica and Callao will be under complete control and authority of Santiago unless Peru wakes up.  This no longer has anything to do with the land lost during the war of the Pacific.  This is now about Chiles new economic expansionist goals.  Anyone who doesn't know about these goals is either ignorant or living in a fantasy.

The other thing Peru needs to do is come up with a counter plan for Chile arming Ecuador. 
There are 2 clear and necessary steps Peru needs to take on this front.
 

1 -    Peru must not only update it's own military, but it needs to create a new military front in northern Peru to prepare for the new threat coming from Ecuador with the help of Chile.  This includes creating new land bases as well as a new northern naval facility.  Remember that Chile will be giving Ecuador 3 submarines to use against Peru.

2 -    The other most obvious step Peru must take to counter Chiles move to arm Ecuador, is Peru must help to arm Bolivia.  Just as Chile is giving free to Ecuador the military armament that it's replacing with newer equipment, so must Peru give to Bolivia tanks, planes, heliocopters and other military equipment that Peru will replace with more modern equipment. 

There is no doubt that this will give Chile something to think about when Bolivia can place on it's borders with Chile, tanks, missle batteries, attack heliocopters, etc....
In addition to what ever Peru can give to Bolivia, so also is Venezuela helping to prepare Bolivia for a confrontation with Chile.  Venezuela is helping Bolivia build runways and installations on the Chilean border.

One day in the not too distant future, Bolivia will again have access to the sea and the rich mineral lands that were stolen from it. And when that happens, Peru will no longer have a border with Chile, which will also help prevent any future conflicts with Ecuador. The reason being that if Peru no longer has a border with Chile, Ecuador would never stand a chance of any type of military action against Peru.  It should be obvious to all that this is the ultimate way to bring lasting and final peace to the southern cone of South America.

In Argentina, there is already talk of taking important steps to modernize and re-habilitate it's own military forces.  The reason being that in the next 2 years, Chiles military will be capable of strking over 70% of Argentina and any given moment.  This is something Argentina has never had to worry about.  The leadership of Argentina in conjunction with the military council has studied the situation and are preparing now to take on the new challenge. There is even talk of a new alliance between the 3 countries, Argentina, Bolivia, and Ecuador.  It would be a strategic alliance, insuring that if any 1 of the 3 countries were attacked by Chile, the other 2 countries would join in to its defense.  
Even the Chilean leadership is aware of this, because they themselves have acknowledged that they must prepare for a war on >3< fronts! 

So as most people might suspect.  The next time there is a conflict in the Pacific, or the whole cone of South America, it will be very different than the one that happend over 100 years ago.  This time the aggressor nation of the Southern Cone will find itself fighting a war against 3 other nations that will be prepared. 

Ofcourse, nobody would want this to happen. No Chilean, Argentinian, Bolivian, or Peruvian.  Only Chile can prevent this from happening.  And its not by purchasing more arms. If anything, Chile purchasing more arms is making this eventual event happen even sooner. The real way Chile can prevent this is to renounce is aggressive nature and intentions of conquest, and even more importantly, return to Bolivia and Peru, that which is stole from those 2 nations in the last war.
That and ONLY that, will prevent the terrible event which is getting closer every year.
Lastly, I would just remind everyone of the words of the great Chilean Prophet Laura Antonia:
 "there will be a horrible massacre in Chile, and as a result, there will be a civil war in Chile worse than that of 1973. A fire that begins in Argentina, crosses over the Andes and heads towards Chile. (a clear reference to the coming invasion)
"and in a dream, I saw a child, white a blue vest, white shirt, and red pants. This child pulled out of his pockets a whistle and blew it, and he became a man. He went to the bank, and got money out and with it, he bought a house. And then the same house that he built killed him."
"this child is Chile, and the death of modern day Chile, an idolotrous and aggressor that follows the beast.  And the arbitrator of all of this is the Father in heaven Himself, paying back Chile for its trangressions and treachery".
2nd part - January 4th, 1980
"She saw that we were in a old and large house. On the roof there was the big construction in the shape of a metalic booth with metalic scaffolds. The construction had an enormous aspect and it was going to collapse on us. The roof of our house already had an enormous crack and this metallic structure was going to collapse on us at any moment now. That structure had a red color, and a stripe of yellow. Inside the house we always kept away from where this structure might fall to avoid being crushed. But we noticed on the other hand, that there was type of enomous kettle on the verge of exploding that was a blue/greenish color with yellow at the middle.
Our spiritual guide disconnected the kettle, so that it wouldn't explode but this didnt stop the action, and the kettle got even hotter and closer to exploding. So the guide plugged the kettle back in, and we knew it would explode at any moment. So we moved to a position that was 10 meters away, and put us between both of these dangers. We figured that in that place we would be protected. In the house where we were there were many soldiers with uniforms of battle, but they were all corpses, and their uniforms were drippin of human grease.
(It is a forcast of the coming war of Peru and Bolivia *whose flags show off the green, yellow, red, and white colors*  and Argentina *whose flag shows the colors yellow, white and celetial blue.)
"And I saw a high hill, it was as long as the the length of Chile, and there were alot of people there. In the upper part of the hill there was a metallic resevoire, painted with the stripes that were red-white-red, and it contained a highly flammable liquid that was going to explode at any moment. Mother Laura saw many people fleeing and many came to where she was to take refuge.
Finally the resevoire exploded and fell on top of the people.
(the resevoire that exploded has the colors of the flag of Peru)
Becuase of these occurences, the Chilean people revolt against their own military.
23rd of January, 1986 -
"And then began an explosive revolt of the Chilean people against the armed forces in a sudden and unexpected form.  There was tremendous loss of life. A massive rising of the people, lootings, executions, murders, and lynchings in the central plazas. Many innocent people parished. And no mercy was shown, even to the eldery, or women, or children."
Laura Antonia then said while seeing this horror "the French revolution is repeated now".  It was a killing in general, so horrible.
"In the south, 2 trains were seen. I looked towards the Andes mountains, and I saw there were many more trains coming, and from the area of Puente Alto.  And from the middle of that mountain range came a huge train that was Red" 
Then Laura said she saw that behing that huge red train were innumerable more trains heading this way and the trains were symbolic of war.
She then saw in a prophetic dream, that she was carrying in her arms, a little baby, only a few months old, and then she arrived in front of a huge map which showed Peru and Bolivia. And then Laura said "Peru and Bolivia - the war has begun"

June 19, 1987 -
Mother Laura has a prophetic dream:  "I see great destruction to the north of the river Mapocho. And more destruction in Santiago."

June 14, 1989 -
" A terrible oppresion in Chile. Thousands of people will be captured and detained"

May of 1991 - "Most of Chile is now destroyed, mainly just a desert now, no trees, just slabs of cement that are burnt. And the remains of men, also burnt and with wounds, all putrified. This is the end of Chile"

All of her prophecies up to now have come true.  These are some of the remaining ones that havent taken place yet, but now we can see they they are at the door.

# erich keller says :
17 January, 2008 [ 10:02 ]

Hello,

Hi I am peruvian.  Don't let my name fool you, I am also decendant of the Inca Pachacutec (my great-grandma is Esther Pachas, inca decendant of the house of Pachacutec).

I have a deep love for my country and hate the Chilean oppresion.

Everything you said sounds great, and I wish it were true.  Only that Chile has invaded us so badly with their purchases of privatizations and industries, and businesses, that how can we stop them now?

They have no foreign debt and many in the international comunity will back up chile in a war, simply because they are a stable country and their interests are with Chile. 

Peru itself is divided..... Many peruvians in Lima don't care about their brethren in the mountains and jungles, and many would not support a war against Chile simply because it's much easier for them to flow with the current of globalization than to fight an uphill battle for the interests of the country as a whole.  Bribes and offers they can't refuse have been a norm in peruvian politicians.  Fujimori for example, amassed a fortune in privatizations that were only beneficial to Chileans, Japanese and his own pockets.

I really would love to see a united Peru.  Like Lincoln said, "United we stand, but divided we fall".  Peru is a divided country, not just geographically, but ethnically, and culturally.  Many in Cusco despise Lima, just like many in La Paz, Bolivia hate Santa Cruz.  Just in education and resources, there is total injustice as the goods are not equally distributed..... and will they ever?

I sure hope things change and I loved your article.  But is it truth.... or wishfull thinking?

# carl says :
17 January, 2008 [ 13:38 ]

I do not understand.
Someone has already said, that Chile has invaded Peru economically. Why Chile  wants to make a War with us, corporate Chile will be hurt itself.
The trade between Arica and Tacna is in favor of Tacna, many people buy their products in Tacna because is more expensive in Arica ergo groceries store, medical tests, etc. and the people from Tacna is benefited with Chile's tourism. Besides, we can sell natural gas to Arica, Iquique, etc; since Chile does need those goods in that region.
We have to work together with the winner not with the loosers.
Tell me, do you want to join Peruvians, with the idea of a war. Peru never is going to be united. it is part of our culture. We do not have xenofobia, we do have xenofilia, we love people from other latitudes. It is easier to have a top executive officer who is foreigner than a Peruvian. It would be unacceptable  for instance in Japan (that' s the reason why Fujimori did not win in Japan, regardless his ancestry he is peruvian). I guess some people want the idea of a War to make huge profit on it the sale of weapon is not cheap. I cant imagine how much can cost a missile. or an aircraft. etc. and what a huge comission for those people that trade with war toys.
A nation  on war is not good for our tourism. Tourism industry is our main advantage.

# Romano says :
17 January, 2008 [ 14:17 ]

I cannot agree more with what all of you have said.

The only point I want to make is that any native or "adopted" Peruvians , either united or disunited, from Lima or Cuzco, in or out the country, wish to enter into war with Chile. Least the Chileans who are happy with the status quo.

Let us all focus on the big picture, not on wars or violence, but rather on much needed development for ALL if we really want to progress and be a single-minded country again.

Cheers,


Romano

# Mari says :
23 February, 2008 [ 16:09 ]

I totally agree with Carl and Romano and thanks to the foreign investors many of them from Chile,  lots of people in Peru have jobs now, lets focus in the possitive, Chileans and peruvians need each other, lets make Bolivar dream come true that all our contries in South America be united, we are so close in culture, traditions, we should look the possitive way.

# Miriam Lang says :
6 May, 2008 [ 06:40 ]

To Jet... wow, you really have a lot of fantasy... you should really consider to write some science fiction books, or maybe you should join Tom Clancy's Team ;D

Chile is not a military aggressive country. Totally opposite!
Chile, together with Uruguay, are the 2 countries in whole Southamerica which had the longest war-free period from today backwards. 130 years of peace with it's neighbours, not alot of countries on this planet can show this. Otherwise all it's neighbours do have military conflicts from time to time (Peru, the country with MOST wars on this continent, does have wars regularily on approx ever 12 - 15 years). 
 
Also the "war of the pacific", where you describe Chile as the "evil", was because Bolivia violated an international border treaty with Chile (and refused to undo it after a whole year) and same time Bolivia activated its secred ally (Peru, which it had bounded with malignity in purpose to violate the treaty with Chile, and have a military backup, genious!) to participate in the war. This can be easily verified in Wikipedia for example. The "Bolivian-Peruvian" trap did not work and the war got lost. So now that these plans did not work out, it was a trauma to most Peruvians, who though that they would easily beat Chile, which in these times was much weaker in the continental context, while Peru was a recently released viceroyalty of Spain. This trauma even remains today in big parts of peruvian society, which thinks its deserves special "position" due to the spanish viceroyalty legacy and is the reason why there is thirst for vengance and feeling of humilliation.

It's a pity that, even after 130 years, Peruvian society has not overcome this "issue" and keep the resentiment against it's southern neighbour alive.

Regards,
Miriam

# carl says :
6 May, 2008 [ 13:22 ]

I m Peruvian, and I m glad to having such a wonderfull Chilean companies in my country. We must forget things that has happened in the past and work together for the integration of the Pacific Rim.
Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Chile.
Those people who talk badly  just want to divide our truly cooperation that Peru and Chile has together. Indeed Chile is still the model of our new free economy. When things were doom and gloomy here, the first companies to appear were Chileans such as Falabella, Ripley, Banks ; so we are greatfull,  now companies such as Imagina, and construction building coming to Lima to create Limhattan. No way, about talking on War that stupid, that Chileans are going to harm Chileans Corporate. The most integration we have the better relation we will have.

# Tito says :
15 June, 2008 [ 22:53 ]

I would also like to commend Jet on such intriguing story telling... You can seriously make some money with all your b*******. First of all Bolivia did not follow a basic agreement. If you make a political agreement then you must follow it or else people (Chileans) will be very pissed off. That is exactly what Bolivia did, acting all macho (as they had their Peruvian counterparts ready for battle). So it's really like the little kid with his big brother talking crap just cause he thinks he's backed up however how glorious was it when Chilean troops stormed into Lima and paraded down their military palace wrecking havoc. It was absolutely brilliant and how deserving of that little kid (Bolivia) to lose their sea. It's like they say in the U.S., you don't mess with Texas! Well Peru and Bolivia don't mess with Chile because you will truly suffer a strong defeat. We don't like Peruvians or Bolivians only because you're still crying about defeat. Who's the goof that says Chile stole land. Of course we took land we conquered moron and feeling sorry we even gave back significant land to Peru (which I don't we should have done). You keep what you conquered, that's the bottom line. So Bolivia stop crying and unfortunately you just got to take it. Stop trying to have political talks about getting some of your sea back because Chilean nature will not allow that. We are winners and winners gripe and do not feel sorry for the loser. And Peru if you really don't like us then why the hell are you coming here to find work, can't you find decent jobs in your own country? I can say that if anyone messed with Chile you'd have so many other countries up your ass you wouldn't know what to do. Chileans/Argentinians/Uruguayans are liked (due to their european influence) Peruvians/Bolivians and mostly, "Indian" peoples are not. Unfortunately that's the way of the world, and I didn't choose this however at the end of it all I'm proud to be a hard-core Chilean Canadian and if Chile did ever go to war I'd be packing my bags and heading down to my beloved country to defend it from greasy, no good for nothing, leeching maggots like Bolivians and Peruvians.

Viva Chile

# CapitanDan says :
15 June, 2008 [ 23:50 ]

The 12 F-16's do not frighten me as much as the sabre rattling I hear in this forum. This attitude plunged the European Continent and the world into 2 wars. I am an American with, U.S., German and French passports and I live when I can in Peru. I also visited Chile many times. I love Peru for its climate and people and have no animosity towards any of it's neighbors. The F-16's by themselves are not a threat , because they can only be used as interceptors and do not carry the latest U.S. Technology. They do not have the smart bomb capability that was used by the U.S. and it's allies to bring down Iraq. Also they need parts that are only available from the U.S. and the U.S. WILL NOT LET A WAR BREAKOUT. China will also back the U.S. , because of the many interests it has in a stable Chile , Peru and Ecuador. I beg as a retired Soldier that Chile, Ecuador and Peru develop closer ties like Germany, England and France. These countries have suffered the most from silly nationalistic wars, that bled their countries of their greatest asset, "Their young Patriots". We are in a New Millennium, Lets solidify our friendship and build a strong coalition to fight the REAL VILLIAN of humanity. Disease, Famine, Pestilence and War. Lets Mock the Devil by looking to Peace, because we all no Hell is not even half full . Chau My Friends

# Inkayupanqui says :
16 June, 2008 [ 12:51 ]

Tito:

Your words prove that you are a racist ignorant pig with no education.  

Soy Peruano and very proud of it.  Peru has much more culture, history, folklore, flora, fauna, and geographic greatness, than Chile. Not to mention Gastronomy.

About you:
                    Chile has diferent social classes, just like any other country.  You talk as if you were from the Elite Investing Class.  Every good Peruano knows that the few truly rich in Chile do not share their wealth with the lesser chilenos like yourself. 

That is why you would pack your soldier bag to go to war, and not actually live there NOW enjoying the priviledged chilean life today.  No, you have to live in Gringoland to escape your mediocre status in Chile.

Hermanos Peruanos:

Let's always remind ourselves of the great land that we are from.   Milenarian in History, Rich in Folklore and Culture, Geographic Wonder, the Best Gastronomy in the Americas, to name a few. 

No need to care what ignorant and envious people comment here, like this Canadian chileno "tito".

Peru is growing in power.  Much faster than Chile can control. 

I am for the integration of Latin America, but it's these ignorant envious people that must be put in their place.

I am proud to be decendant of the house of Pachacutec.  I have deep love for my Inca ancestry. 

Peru and Bolivia have the most colorful in Folklore in the region.  Why would we care what a chileno thinks?  Saludos paisanos!

Viva Peru! 

Inka Y.

# asd@hotmail.com says :
16 June, 2008 [ 14:04 ]

guys guys guys the real enemy here is HUGO CHAVEZ lets not forget about that, stop with all these nonsense we must get together peru argentina chile and colombia and fight against hugo chavez's idiotic ideas and **** BOLIVIA Seriously they have evo morales as their president? ***

# Miriam Lang says :
17 June, 2008 [ 19:39 ]

Hi Captain Dan,

you wrote:

"The F-16's by themselves are not a threat , because they can only be used as interceptors and do not carry the latest U.S. Technology. They do not have the smart bomb capability that was used by the U.S. and it's allies to bring down Iraq. Also they need parts that are only available from the U.S. and the U.S. WILL NOT LET A WAR BREAKOUT"

You really think that Chilean military is that naive? Of course there are decent arms for these jets, don't believe everything they tell arround.
The 28 (and soon 40) F16 in Chile have included in the purchase joint direct attack munitions, JDAMs, AIM-9  heat-seeking missiles, AGM-65 Mavericks and advanced medium range air-to-air missiles AMRAAMs. The FACh F-16s can also operate Israeli made Derby and Python4 air-to-air missiles which are used on our other jets. Not only american stuff works on this plane. ;D

But don't worry, there won't be any war here arround. As I mentioned before, Chile according to it's modern history is one of the most peaceful countries on this planet, we haven't had a war for 130 Years (can you tell this about your country?) and all the media in Peru is just playing with patriotism of population, because they abuse with their feelings and history. And most important: "Chile sells" in Peru, definitely. You won't have a day without a "Chilean title", while in Chile, when people think about Peru they think about folcloric things, macchu pichu and the immigrants in Santiago.

Cheers

# CapitanDan says :
17 June, 2008 [ 20:28 ]

Miriam, Neither the Israeli's nor any Nato country will  supply any parts or Munitions to Chile if a War would break out .Each F-16 needs at least 10 hours of maintenance and parts to fly 1 hour. These are only made in the U.S.You can not just add equipment on these aircraft like changing the tires on a car. These are highly sophisticated machines that need to be re-calibrated and adjusted here and there.The Chilean Military is not naive, they bought these knowing the restrictions placed on these planes. Their only other option was to purchase Soviet aircraft, which you can Google up haven't done to well against U.S. aircraft . I commend your country for not being involved in a war for 130 years. I do not advocate war, or as I said, "saber rattling". I do not advocate Peru buying sophisticated aircraft either to match Chile's. These countries could spend these monies on many more worthwhile projects. Sadly my country and many others contribute to this lunacy. Chau 

# J.V. Col. US Army Ret. says :
6 August, 2008 [ 16:16 ]

Very briefly . As a retired US Army Colonel now  making my home in Chile . I can for sure agree with the assestment that of the Captain ,that the recently purchased F-16 are  not a real menace to Peru .
Apart from what  the good Capt. has stated . The Air Force regarless  what my good Amigos  think, it  does not  win  any conflicts.  For that you need boots on the ground .Particulaly now days , when wars are fought in a very unconventional and asymetrical ways .If you do not agree I suggest you talk to the former Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld.   The real problems for Chileans , Peruvians and the rest of the lot is that simply , their countries have not been involved in a war and have seen their children come home dead. Stop this stupid argument , the reality  is that neither country can afort to wage a war agaist the other.
What you all should do is drink some good Pisco and stop talking shit!!
   
 

# Not for a minute.... says :
6 August, 2008 [ 17:19 ]

Chile and Peru are too economically intertwined to do anything so stupid as starting a war.  It would be political suicide for the ruling parties of both countries.  Maybe Humala, with his nationalistic, macho chest beating could garner enough stupiity....

# powerpro says :
19 August, 2008 [ 18:30 ]

I also agree with the Capt. as a USAF Avionics tech.(recentlty retired) and also a peruvian by birth I think the F16 are not what the chileans think they have. For example like cars you have a model that has the basics to the so called fully equiped, and what you have is the basic model still an F16 but not fully equiped. Remember we sold the F14 to Libia and Iran guess what they have not been operational since they pissed us off.
This goes to all you chileans and peruvians that think war is the answer, have you guys seen the poverty and ignorance around your cities both contries. Instead of wasting your times on who has the shiny planes and tanks, and whos soldiers are dressed up the pretiest, talk about coming out the third world grade. Both contries need each other to do so. We should learn of what the europeans have done.  

# MONI says :
19 August, 2008 [ 18:58 ]

Hey Tito,
first of, who are you to get into this site when you are chilean??
second, you talk bad things about peruvians. FIRST OF YOUR PEOPLE MIGRATE SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES WITH THE EXCUSE THAT YOU ARE POLITICAL EXILE, only to live on the govermment as the welfare, and Bachelet knows it. THE SAME AS THE GHETTO HERE IN THE USA, worst than them, you pretend that you are all that, i am peruvian because my country doesn't eat only beans and rice as your country, yes there is poverty like in any country in the world. DON"T GET INTO THIS SITE TO CRITIZE AND DISCRIMINATE PERUVIANS< I HAVE 3 nationalities but i love Peru where I was raised all my youth.Peru with its problems so what?? I feel sorry for you because your identity is poor, your self steem is on the floor, and most of all. If you are so good as a human being you wouldn't talk about other people insulting and at last discriminating, go to your Bachelet and God bless your country.
Look at your self in the mirror and ask your self the insecurities also about your country. ARRIBA PERU CARAJO HOY Y SIEMPRE.LOVE YOU PERU.THE DAY I DIE REGARDLESS OF MY NATIONALITIES, I WILL DIE PERUVIAN. CHEERS PERU!! SALUD CON PISCO PERUANO!!!

# Miriam says :
20 August, 2008 [ 04:44 ]

For all people that have been in Chile, they will know that this is so called "potential war" is no theme there. Only peruvian sensationalist media  keeps this alive and from time to time the decent media there also participates to attract it's piece of mass attention and audience. Apart from media, many politicans use this theme to gain popularity. Fear and rivalism with Chile "sells like hot potatoes" in Peru, I could name you several peruvian newspapers that just exist due to what is called "Chile-fear-envy-challenge" related news on almost daily basis. You won't be able to find any counterpart like that in Chile. It's clear that the population will get affected by such "disinformation bombardment", fear is a very useful instrument for politics to distract from internal problems which are rather real, like for example extreme poverty, corruption, analfabetism and other internal issues which are very predominant in Peru.

When people in Chile think about Peru, they rather think about Machu Picchu, folcloric dance and other indigenous traditions and culture. Also they are remided by the permanent media attacks, but this does not prevail for a long time (it's perceived like little kids overhyping and crying to get attention) They also are aware of the mass migration coming from Peru, on legal and ilegal ways. People searching for a better life, mostly in a place in the center of Santiago called "little Lima", working as gardeners, nanas and household employees. Chile does not see Peru as a "rival", but rather as the poorer neighbour, which strongly struggles with it's identity and (glorious) Inca and Viceroyalty past.

In order to understand why there is this problem you must go back in history:
 
Since the spainards left southamerica almost 200 years ago, the bequeathed regional predominance and once status quo of Peru dissapeared (Peru was mostly liberated from spainards by Chile, "Argentina" and "Colombians" in the liberation expeditions started by San Martin and Bolivar), and this is the crucial point why there is this permanent challenging all the time. In peruvian subconciousness, there is the feeling that past regional domination must return. This is an old perception of the once small peruvian aristocracy which prevailed and now spread to general population. They are trying to get rid of, what they perceive as humilliation, by being surpassed in economic, political and other areas by the "smaller and poorer southern neighbour". So there is a permanent campaign to keep this challange alive and to regain once old glories, and this is done via media or even the president Alan Garcia, who often does have public speeches of how to literary reach and surpass Chile. He does not even try to deny it and due to regularity of showing too obvious complexes is even critizised in Peru. Many peruvians are starting to feel ashame for this, which is maybe an a good sign and hopefully an improvement in attitude.

To close this "war theme" just a reminder of 2 realities. During the 130 Years, Chile had 0 (zero) wars with it's neighbours...last one was in 1879.  I don't think that there are many countries on this planet which can show such a pacific past. In comparison, during same period, Peru has had 7 (seven) wars with 4 of it's 5 neighbours, the last ones with Ecuador in 1982 and 1995.

I think that say's alot...of who's the wary one.

# jcwong says :
20 August, 2008 [ 05:02 ]

miriam, miriam, miriam your tone of voice
is very aggresive for a lady.
chile the most "pacific" nation on this planet?
look up "pinochet", and "guerra de las malvinas or guerra del cenepa chile's involvement"  and please rewrite your elaborate arguments.
the web site is called living in peru not living in chile,
your audience is not who you think.
jcw

# Miriam says :
20 August, 2008 [ 06:18 ]

jcwong,

you rather like to manipulate citations or you are having problems with comprehension. I did not write that "Chile (is) the most pacific nation on this planet", but that not alot of nations on this planet can show a non-war period with it's neighbours of 130 years, which is the case for Chile and that I therefore doubt seriousness of such a title putting same country as a kind of "agressor" . Do you get the point or should I explain with apples and pears? ^_^.

Now my counterquestion: Do you understand Peru as a peaceful nation and victim of anybody sourrunding it? So that means that the regular wars that Peru had in the recent past is only a conspiracy against your country? I have often read this from some of your countrymen and women and that perfectly fits into the scheme I explained before.

The point about me being a women, I don't see your point about "being agressive". Are women in your town, region or society not allowed to talk or discuss about certain themes whatever they are? hummm...

Regarding this site being called "livinginperu", I dont think I have to remind you of the existence of searching engines, these are able to filter every word you search and will show you respective results on any page on the net, like in this case our foreign minister "Foxley" or "Chile" (my country by the way). Now if you dislike my arguments on this article reffering to Chile and you feel bad about this, sorry for intervening, but you should mabye maybe try to refute it with other arguments or tell the admin to not allow Chileans to write on your pages like it's often the case on other media like Peru21.com, just as an example. In an open society, everybody should be able to refute and question vericity of articles spread. Don't you think?

# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 09:14 ]

Tito the "Shilean",
Why are you talking war? You live in T.O.?
Forget the war. With global warming, glaciers melting, etc. we will all suffer anyway. We are all doomed. So, why die any sooner, killing ourselves in SouthAmerica?

# CapitanDan says :
20 August, 2008 [ 11:07 ]

JC, Miriam is as sharp as a Tack. She has many good points.As for women not speaking out. They are the one's that suffer the most in war. The men go and get killed or wounded. Either way the women have to assume the burden of feeding and taking care of the family.The easiest solution to this problem is to invite either the EEUU or the Russians to put a Military base in Peru.Ha, Ja.Ja. This should stir things up. Chau to all my fearful Friends

# CapitanDan says :
20 August, 2008 [ 11:33 ]

JC, I forgot to mention that some of the worlds most accomplished SPIES were women. Now Miriam , your not spying on us in Peru are you?Ha,Ja,Ja,.Chau Friends

# Yei vi says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:10 ]

Ok. You all  WARRIORS  .This is something for you to think about.
Peru  has .
1.- A  GDP of  around ...........219 Billions US $    
2.- A  population of around......29 Million people
3.- A per cap. of around.........US$ 7,800
4.- A public debt of around.....29.2 % of GDP
5.- A population living below the poverty line 44.5%
5.- A military expending of around 1.5 % of  GDP.

In the other hand Chile has .
1.- A GDP of around ..............231 Billions US$
2.- A population of around......16 Million people
3.- A per cap. of around.........US$ 13,900
4.- A public debt of ..............4,1 %
5.- A population living under the poverty line 18.2 %
5.- A military expending of around 2.7% of GDP.

Now  lets think about  this  , en  global terms  Peru has all sort of internal and economic problems and this fact is of course reflected in the military.
The Chileans and the other hand , do not have  the problems of Peru and its military   , albeit not at war in over 100 years, is in pretty good shape . 
Now then , A Peruvian - Chilean war would have to be fought mostly in the Atacama desert.  So to prepare for the war , lets look at a very important fact . Such as -
A.-The number of  active troops and number of tanks.
Active troops.-           Peru 110,000 ............Chile 86,000
Number of tanks.-       Peru       300.............Chile     320

Number of Air combat.-Peru         75.............Chile     100

And as I indicated earlier this war will be fought mostly over the desert , so the Navies will have a limited impact . It could be used to for blockades and other military actions , but the war would have to be won on land.
ONE MORE FACT. Both countries have important natural resources relatively near each other ,that can be reached and be damaged by the enemy. However , the major population and industrial centers such as Lima  and Santiago are much farther away  from the anticipated area of conflict.  With Lima  being closer  to the Chilean border  , than  Santiago  to  Peru. Think about it.
So now , my My Peruvian and Chilean ESTRATEGAS .
Which country  , do you think can  .
1.- Pay for the war.
2.- Which country would start a war.
3.- What would be  the motivation for the war.
4.- What would the country gain by going to war.
5.- Setting aside sentimientos patrioticos , Given tha facts presented above. Which country has a better chance to win the war.
Before anyone tries to give me an answer . REMEMBER ! No country can commit itself to a war , that can not be paid for.
I will wait for your answers .
Be smart , be practical and above be honest .
I will take on any and all responses , but  I do not want to hear about other countries getting involved , it will not happen .
I will let you know in a very honest way , what I think of your answer.
Carry on SOLDIERS !!


 

# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:26 ]

Thank you, Yei Vi for the information. Good questions too.

# CapitanDan says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:45 ]

Yei Vi, Thanks for the Logical analysis. Unfortunately Politicians do not use logic. They gain power through Emotional responses. Look at Hitler's attack on Russia. Thank You again, Chau Friends

# Paul says :
20 August, 2008 [ 16:43 ]

Jet.... this utter nonsense only serves to distract people from the real issues, and perhaps have them support Peru spending $110 million dollar fixing up the ageing MIG jets or supporting the increasing US presence in Ayacucho, instead of thinking of its needy population.  Diversion  tactics. There is simply no way it would happen.  Chile has too much money invested in Peru. 

# Yei Vi says :
20 August, 2008 [ 19:42 ]

First , thanks to Rice and Sugar . Did not answer the questions  , but understood the implications contained therein.
Second  , to Captain Dan.  You are 100 % correct , but did  not have to go as far  in time, as to cite Hitler ,for much closer to our time we have.
A.- The Georgia - Russia conflict . Which it did not need to have happened  , had it not  been for the  absurd  President of the  Georgian Republic and based on certain so quasi commintment from the west , i.e. The  USA and some European countries.
B.- The USA involvement in Irack , an ilegal and inmoral  war of choice , based on falsehoods and poor understanding of the culture.
C.- The Falklands Island war , created foolishly by the then President of Argentina to  take away from  the  peoples mind  Argentina´´s internal economic problems  . Perhaps you may remember that Argentina was soon out of resources and Peru  ,had to lend  Argentina  its  inventory of Exocet missiles. I was in London at the time  that  The Sheffield  was sunk by an Exocet . It sort of change England´s  reliance in building  light  vessels without  heavy  armor .
Third ,to Paul , you too are correct in your response to Jet , this sort of nonsense only serves to distract people from the real issues confronting them and the politicians knowing this fact  take advantage of this knowlege.
Jet´s  point of view is based upon a  whole lot of bad information and truly and  complete and poor  understanding of the real facts.  
Ok. Then ,since I answered  the questions , I will now go and make me  a nice Pisco Sour and just to be fair . This time Peruvian Pisco and Chilean LIMON DE PICA!!!   Next time it may be just a good glass of Chilean wine and picante Ceviche Peruano.

# carl says :
21 August, 2008 [ 06:57 ]

As far as I m concerned Peru, welcomes Chilean to invest in our country without restriction.
We have seen that Chileans entrepreneurs work well together with our Peruvian workers, Retail, Airlines, Tourist industries, etc.
Peru is growing twice than Chile right now.

# jcwong says :
21 August, 2008 [ 08:50 ]

dear miriam:
..."To close this "war theme" just a reminder of 2 realities. During the 130 Years, Chile had 0 (zero) wars with it's neighbours...last one was in 1879.  I don't think that there are many countries on this planet which can show such a pacific past. In comparison, during same period, Peru has had 7 (seven) wars with 4 of it's 5 neighbours, the last ones with Ecuador in 1982 and 1995.

I think that say's alot...of who's the wary one.".....

you should read again you lines "miriam" from chile, if you're not implying that chile is one of the most peaceful countries on the planet then youre right, i have a reading comprehension problem.

the bit about "living in peru"...well the site is created by expats (professionals living and working in foreign countries usually for multinationals) to inform english speaking readers about life in a developing country like peru, in case you're still not getting the point the site wasnt created for chileans to lecture the world about peruvian history or any other subject.

and to conclude i dont have any problem whatsoever with women expressing their views, i have a mother, a wife and a daughter, but your tone of voice is excessively pompous, sanctimonious, defensive and agressive for a man or a lady.

why do we need you to tell us or anybody else about our own history, let alone our aspirations anyway?
who are you?

if you go through the article again you might realize that a such a military build up for a small nation is a bit puzzling, for the peruvian intelligence services and military, we (chile and peru) are supposed to be getting closer comercially so what would be the purpose of starting an arms race.

when was the last time peru attacked chile? occupied and annexed a large part of its territory, expulsed after severe mistreatment tens of thousands of its local (original) population? went through the entire country looting, sacking, and raping civilians?

jcw

# Miriam says :
21 August, 2008 [ 10:14 ]

jcwong,

this page is open and accessible for everybody, who has a connection to the internet...and as you can see, everybody can enter, read and comment here. If this would only be intended for a specific circle of people and professionals, it would surely be locked and for registered users only. On the other side, if this site is only for professionals living or working in Peru or outside Peru (and related to it), why the heck is this article about Chile being an agressor? So you expect all readers to keep arms crossed and everybody who reads should think "uhhh, evil chileans want to harm the poor Peruvians?" *gg*.
If this is the case, sorry for disturbing your party here, I just brought another aspect into it... ;D

By the way, on regional basis, Chile is one of the most peaceful and selffocused nations...like it or not. Which does not mean it's a perfect country or free of errors and problems (which one is?). Military spenditures are nothing spectacular... just average. Like Captain Dan already mentioned, nobody is going to start a war or invasion because there are 30 new planes (which replace another 50 old ones), thats somehow childish. Another point which maybe in not considered... there are different meassures of defense budgets. Chile does include the pensions of retired army and the salaries and equipment of the police into it. Not sure if Peru does same. Salaries are higher in Chile (if you consider average income of each country, with Peru arround 3500 nominal dollars and Chile with 10.000 nominal dollars, so the army will need more money on this aspect. Also... the military budget is related to the total buget and GDP of the country, which is higher in Chile, despite having half of the population (164.000 million vs 108.000 million $ of Peru). All aspects and facts which must be considered.

# jcwong says :
22 August, 2008 [ 07:50 ]

this what chileans mean when they say wevadas?
we (peruvians) just keep our mouths shut when we hear such brilliant
arguments, some people are not even worth insulting.

good bye miriam from chile, I'm sure we'll run into
each other in another web site.

# moni says :
25 August, 2008 [ 19:55 ]

guys,
who gives a crab who has more or not. BEING IN A POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD> FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS MILLIONS OF WANABEES WHO PRETEND TO HAVE THEY DON"T HAVE NOTHING. THe bank owns everything and why will you worry about so much. what bugs me is why stupid chileans has to be in Peru or it is because they can;'t find what they want in their beautiful Chile. Peru with its problem believe me if you know how to live in Peru; it is the most amazing life I ever had, freedom, those ones who never enjoy their lifes in their own country talk about it. REgardless that the political situation is not right in Peru, i can say I enjoyed my country, i love peruvian food, it was a luxury living as a queen, when i came to Usa i had to be realistic, because here only the rich have butlers, chef and so forth. Love You Peru no matter what they say, and those retards chileans go back to your tripe country to enjoy life as Peru negro, valses, ceviche, tondero, life itself, the andens, the ocean, its people, real ones. Love you Peru forever!!!!!

# moni says :
25 August, 2008 [ 19:55 ]

guys,
who gives a crab who has more or not. BEING IN A POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD> FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS MILLIONS OF WANABEES WHO PRETEND TO HAVE THEY DON"T HAVE NOTHING. THe bank owns everything and why will you worry about so much. what bugs me is why stupid chileans has to be in Peru or it is because they can;'t find what they want in their beautiful Chile. Peru with its problem believe me if you know how to live in Peru; it is the most amazing life I ever had, freedom, those ones who never enjoy their lifes in their own country talk about it. REgardless that the political situation is not right in Peru, i can say I enjoyed my country, i love peruvian food, it was a luxury living as a queen, when i came to Usa i had to be realistic, because here only the rich have butlers, chef and so forth. Love You Peru no matter what they say, and those retards chileans go back to your tripe country to enjoy life as Peru negro, valses, ceviche, tondero, life itself, the andens, the ocean, its people, real ones. Love you Peru forever!!!!!

# moni says :
25 August, 2008 [ 19:55 ]

guys,
who gives a crab who has more or not. BEING IN A POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD> FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS MILLIONS OF WANABEES WHO PRETEND TO HAVE THEY DON"T HAVE NOTHING. THe bank owns everything and why will you worry about so much. what bugs me is why stupid chileans has to be in Peru or it is because they can;'t find what they want in their beautiful Chile. Peru with its problem believe me if you know how to live in Peru; it is the most amazing life I ever had, freedom, those ones who never enjoy their lifes in their own country talk about it. REgardless that the political situation is not right in Peru, i can say I enjoyed my country, i love peruvian food, it was a luxury living as a queen, when i came to Usa i had to be realistic, because here only the rich have butlers, chef and so forth. Love You Peru no matter what they say, and those retards chileans go back to your tripe country to enjoy life as Peru negro, valses, ceviche, tondero, life itself, the andens, the ocean, its people, real ones. Love you Peru forever!!!!!

# miriam says :
26 August, 2008 [ 09:54 ]

Hi Moni... so why did you leave Peru towards USA then, if it was "living like a queen" ? Very contradictory ^_^

Regarding the "stupid chileans" from the "tripe" that are in Peru (what low class you are to insult that way). I guess you mean the Chilean investors like LAN, Falabella, Ripley, Cencosud (owns biggest retailer WONG), INKA Farma, the port owners, and many, many more... You ask why they go to Peru? It's easy to respond:

1. They have an easy game to expand in Peru, due to non-existance and mediocrity of peruvian "competitors". (Thruth is sometimes hard, sorry)

2. They have reached multinational status and spread over various countries, not only Peru, but also Colombia, Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador and Mexico. Once a peruvian company reaches this status, they will expand too, then. But I do know none yet, guess there are no ones yet.

I do agree on the nice peruvian food, though. That's something outstanding from your country.

# Yei Vi says :
27 August, 2008 [ 08:50 ]

This is written for Moni and Mirian.
First of all as a retired US Army Colonel making my home in Chile . I can speak from a neutral point of view , without NINGUN PREJUCIO!!!!
I have served in Peru as well in Chile . I just love to visit Miraflores and eat at the Rosa Nautica and enjoy the company of my Peruvians friends.
 Peru is a good country , however presently besieged with economic problems and to denied such a fact is simply absurd.
The reality expressed by Moni is one often expressed by people that have recently left one´s home and tend to remember how every thing was so terrific in their country.
However , what I do not understand, is the vitriolic opinion stated by Moni regarding the Chileans investing in Peru . Global investing beyond borders is something that has enable humanity become what we are today and this often happens when one´s country economy is strong to trade outside its borders.
Perhaps , Moni does not remember why Cristobal Colon accidentally discovered The Americas. Insulting the Chileans serves no purpose . They are in Peru , simply because they can , just like Americans , Canadians and other countries investing in the Peruvian economy.
AS to Mirian. You are rather strong in your opinions and it does not serve you well . I have reviewed other comments made by you and to be sincere are not very becoming of a LADY.
I think you need to tone down a bit .
As a son , a husband and a father , I respect the right of a woman to express her opinion , but Just do not care to have that opinion stated in bad form .
Best to both of you.
Yei VI     
  

# jcwong says :
27 August, 2008 [ 10:27 ]

really miriam, you sound like an angry chilean!
please go away

# moni says :
27 August, 2008 [ 18:47 ]

First of,
why are you on this site, and if you still going to talk your non sense, guess what i will do the same thing, don't you have any interesting site in your country to debate?? Reason why i got in this site is because i am peruvian can you get, it says it all. Why i am american because one of my parents is american da!!!!
Who are you trying to convince or persuade your rich Chile do me a favor do it in your chilean site not on this one because then i will be continue bragging and write non sense because here and over there i have free of speech and i will do anytime, anywhere and whenever i want to write non sense. Give up do yourself a favor, get a life!!!! Probably you don't have any.
LOVE YOU PERU, LOVE USA BECAUSE MY KIDS WERE BORN HERE AND BECAUSE I PAY MY TAXES AND BECAUSE I AM A FREE HUMAN BEING. WHO I AM VOTING I WISH HILLARY COULD BE THE PRESIDENT OF USA, BUT I WILL VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE NO WAY THE REPUBLICANS WILL MAKE THE AMERICANS BE IN MORE DEFICIT. BYE

# Miriam says :
28 August, 2008 [ 07:49 ]

Hi Yei Vi,

indeed I have a very own opinion and might be sounding somehow "agressive" to you. It also might be that I may not be fitting into "lady like" scheme you have in mind, though you shouldn't judge based opon an opinion related to a polemic theme, nor tell me how I have to behave or what to do, unless I have not crossed your personal rights or offended you. Everybody is different and does not need to be put in cases. With all respect. 

I do know the limit very well and will not start to insult or atack personally on a very low way like some people do here. Nor I am going to " "praise" how great Chile is... and that every thing else is worth nothing". There are no perfect countries, neither there is only black and white. So I suggest everybody to keep focused on the theme and it's roots, which in my opinion... is a very old legacy which must be overcome. That only can ocurr, fighting sensationalist media which lives out of polemic and distorted views to incentive agressivness and blind hype.

Regards,
Miriam

# jcwong says :
29 August, 2008 [ 04:21 ]

you make as much sense as cantinflas miriam,
please just go or find a tall building.

# Yei Vi says :
29 August, 2008 [ 07:10 ]

Mirian . First . Thanks for your response and please be advised that my answer to you is based  ön my desire to explain what I intented to say you do not express  yourself in a ¨lady like manner¨ and particularly your used of language in your answer to me.
Now then . I agree with you that, you indded have strong opinions and in all candor , there is nothing wrong in stating one´s point of view in strong terms. A strong opinion simply reflects a person character and it is a good thing.
Now . Having stated the above. I hope that you would agreed with me , that a reasonable person would conclude to be of bad form to  describe companies in THE HOST COUNTRY as non existing due to the mediocrity of PERUVIAN COMPETITION!!!!
Please I ask you . How this can not be but agressive and not insulting-
I will wait for you reply.
Yei Vi

# Miriam says :
29 August, 2008 [ 10:54 ]

Hi Yei Vi,

if there was any "not ladylike manner" sentence I addressed to you, I would be very pleased if you mention this to me, so I can recognize my error and maybe improve on it. Though I do not remember having addressed you any offensive or "agressive" note so far?

Regarding the "mediocrity of the peruvian competitors", indeed this was by far the most "outstanding" and "agressive" dedication I had so far and almost had a some seconds of doubt after writing it, this one escaped out of me. But if you track the discussion correctly, it was a direct response to Moni... and if you are fair enough, you surely will recognize it was far more "lady-like" then the first provocation. Am I supposed to put my second cheek to be slapped? I am no saint, even some people expect this from me... ^_^.

Though if we analize this, you surely know this characterization is not that wrong (about the competitors), or can you name me world- reknown examples of successful multinational Peruvian companies, which have penetrated foreign markets and gained some monopolic status there?

Anyway, I keep wondering why you, as sombody with "ningun prejuico" pick me as the one to critizise on "agressivness" when there are obviously other female beings here with direct and harsh personal attacks which you do not seem to see, but just my replies to it are worth analizing.

The last comments from Moni must have been very hard... my mail tells me she has about 10 comments each of the last 2 days, but they seem to get censored, who knows why...

Kind Regards

# EM says :
6 September, 2008 [ 17:46 ]

My friends I  use to feel upset about the land lost, But as a fellow Peruvian told me , What would we have done as Peruvians to improve the city of Arica if it is as properous now, something we do not do to our cities in the north. Now i believe it would be a good idea to let the US. Open up a base to the north like supposedly they want to do, which could be use by Peru also. It is a proven fact that economies of the area would improve, roads electricity we can began to urbanize the forgotten areas, do a lease maybe 10 years. But there will be an agreement that if peru was ever invaded the US forces are obligated to Protect our territory jus like Nato, But this will be call Southpacor, Or South Pacific Organization. We should take adbvantage of the fact there will be a base to the north and also give tax benefits to companies to move there and have families move there. Also we need less corruption in our government everytime we refinance or debt.

# Gary Brightman says :
6 September, 2008 [ 18:00 ]

Don't forget Wal-Mart. Hundreds should be opened. Tax breaks should be given and small stores closed by law.
Wal-Mart is proven to be beneficial to me and other top level employees. Proven.

# Em says :
6 September, 2008 [ 18:23 ]

No, I said lower the debt we owe to IMF if we keep refinancing and not use this money well. We invest .20 cents and pocket the rest, the 90 billion or so we owe will never decrease and we'll  suffer as we still do  mean while some crooked Politician invest the money he stole buying US Bonds. Slowly we'll get out of an unjust free trade.
Top level employe were do you work bake shop, please!!

# Carlos B. says :
14 November, 2008 [ 22:08 ]

Honestly this entire discussion is idiotic, and I particularly find the posts by miriam ignorant. Yes Peru is a relativley impovrished country but were not Ireland, Japan, France, Italy, Great Britain, and many other industrialized countries of the world at one time in this position? The fact of the matter is that when observing a country really the only thing that matters is its culture and history as these are the only permanent factors that charecterize a country. Frankly, Peru exceeds Chile culturally in almost every aspect and there are little who could argue otherwise. Peru was the home to dozens of pre-Colombian empires including a few who even conquered Chile. Peru, in the colonial era, had dominion over all South America and Lima and Cusco were intellectual centers of art, science and culture. No matter what happens in the future, may it be economic upturn or downturn, Peru will always be based upon these historic roots, roots that Chile lacks. Chile at any time can go into a downwards economic spiral and then what? They will be left with nothing but their desert and ice sheets. Peru's economy is growing at 9% a year. The claim that Chilean investment is domininant in Peru is perposterous. Those "chilean" companies you claim that control Peruvian economics are all publicly traded meaning that they can be owned by any person of any nationality in the world, most of whom are foreigners. Peru's economy is growing at nearly double the speed of Chile's (9%vs.5%) and anyone even slightly giften in economic mathematics can predict that Peru's economy will soon overtake Chile's Then what? Peru will still maintain its rich culture and it's booming economy while Chile recedes into mediocrity and will still maintain their current lack of anything artistic or enlightened. Economies change in a matter of days, culture is the true source of pride as it is something which is permenant. Also, in response to the racist comments voiced in the above posts by ignorant chileans, I myself am Peruvian and am often mistook for a European when traveling abroad. My surname is Balducci, and I am sure the poster Tito who wrote that racist bullshit is most likely a low life ignorant himslef who is by all means much more stupid, ignorant, and lazy than any hard working intelligent and informed Peruvian of indigeonous descent. Ironically, that poster himself is most likely descended of indigenous people of Chile as the vast majority of Chileans have indigenous ancenstry. This however is besides the point because the color of your skin does not determine your intelligence obviously as the ancient Empires of Peru who were of pure indigenous blood as the Europeans had yet not arrived, were the first to perform such complex works of ingenutiy as brain surgery, vast highway systems, the first and possibly only succesful communist society, incredible architectural feats such as complex irrigation systems, and stunning architecture such as Machu Picchu. All of this was accomplished using ancient technology and Chile, now in the modern era with all the modern technology available, will never be able to even begin to match the ingenuity of Peruvians. Tito and miriam are ignorant and apparently stupid as exemplified by their comments.

# Tupac a. says :
14 November, 2008 [ 22:38 ]

A fact. At an ecuadoran Base in Manta Ecuador, there is a map of Peru, or should I say an Ecuadorian version of it with some writing which is inbeded into every Ecuadorian military service person there with a lot of Peruvian territory claimed as theirs. I was probably the only Peruvian born who has had access to this base at the time ... since I am former U.S military, Now I believe we need to be Upgrading our military, or has someone taken a look at that wall latelly, let me know if that map has been corrected. We need to be less corrupt and think about our national interest and remodernisize our Military, a good idea to give some hardware to Bolivia and with the U.S selling hardware, why not buy some modern planes or Ticonderoga class cruisers, which should be a reall bargain right now.

# QA says :
15 November, 2008 [ 09:38 ]

Damn,  The end of the World, The World's War is going to Start In Peru//

# inka7 says :
16 November, 2008 [ 13:45 ]

Carlos B.<

Very well said.  Could not agree more.  Chile is so uncultured compared to Peru.  It's like comparing Egypt (Peru) to Chile (hmmm, chile).  Not to worry about their Chilean military, because with all the FTA's, treaties, and foreign investments from China, the U.S., the E.U., Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Canada, etc., the world will back up Peru against Chile. 

Sorry Chile, but Peru is no longer at your mercy.  And it will surpass you soon.

to Tupac a.:

I would not worry about Ecuador at all.  This same principle applies to Ecuador, and Ecuador has little power and $ to go against Peru.

So Peruvians, sleep well, the future is on our side. 

# inka7 says :
16 November, 2008 [ 13:45 ]

Carlos B.<

Very well said.  Could not agree more.  Chile is so uncultured compared to Peru.  It's like comparing Egypt (Peru) to Chile (hmmm, chile).  Not to worry about their Chilean military, because with all the FTA's, treaties, and foreign investments from China, the U.S., the E.U., Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Canada, etc., the world will back up Peru against Chile. 

Sorry Chile, but Peru is no longer at your mercy.  And it will surpass you soon.

to Tupac a.:

I would not worry about Ecuador at all.  This same principle applies to Ecuador, and Ecuador has little power and $ to go against Peru.

So Peruvians, sleep well, the future is on our side. 

# Carlos B. says :
21 November, 2008 [ 23:05 ]

Im sorry, but in regards to the comments made by Tupac a., a military threat to Peru from Ecuador is a joke. The Peruvian military is vastly superior and better equipped to that of Ecuador and if you recall, in the past two centuries, Peru has won all five wars against Ecuador (1828, 1858, 1941,  1981, and 1995). Presently however, with Ecuador being ruled Rafael Correa, a leftist nationalist leader, a conflict might for some reason be intigated. Leaders such as him and Hugo Chavez have extremley irrational ideas in there minds. As you said there are maps in Ecuador showing it controlling Peruvian territory as evidence of this. If any conflict were to arise however, I predict that due to the disparity of prepardess, equipment, and strength, the Peruvian military would be at the gates of Quito within a week. Despite this, I beleive that the probabilty of war is very unlikely in regards to either Chile or Ecuador because war is detrimental to any nation's economy.

# CapitanDan says :
21 November, 2008 [ 23:25 ]

Carlos, I agree with you that this sabre rattling is insane. Ecuador has it's own internal problems to deal with. As for the Chileans, they are happy with the trade between Peru and Chile and the investments in Peru... As for the Peruvian Military being at the gates of Quito in a week. I wouldn't bet on it.. It took them that long to get to Chin Cha after the quake and no one was shooting at them.... This only proves that Peru needs to re-evaluate their military spending to a dual purpose military... Chau Friends

# Pablo says :
22 November, 2008 [ 07:35 ]

Please people, there is not going to be a war between Peru and Chile, Chile's investments on Perú have reached 5 billion, and in 2009 will be the main focus of Chile's foreing investments. The thing is that Peru's investments in chile amount to only 50 million or less. A war from Chile towards Peru is idiotic and there is no reason to do so.

Now, Perú doesn't have economic problems, we are going to grow 9.8% this year, and will continue to grow for many more years. If we are resisting THIS economic crisis then we can be sure to grow at high percentages for more than 15 years till the next economic crisis. 

The thing is, if a war is so out of the question for any country in South America, specially between Peru and Chie. Okey maybe a war against Venezuela can happen if crazy Chavez does his crazy things, but highly unlikely. 

Now Chilinians are crying their eyes out because they can see their economic advantage slipping away and can feel the day when Peru's economy will outgrow theirs and keep growing and growing because the "roof" of Peru's economic potential is many times higher than Chile's. We have the resources to be a World Power, a country with a huge economy and resources capable of being part of the G20 or G8 in the next 20-40 years.

Maybe we are poor now, sure we are, but we ALL now that with our stability (we have Investor Grade, together with Chile, Brazil and Mexico in Latin America) and economic performance we have years of prosperity insured for us. If Ollanta didn't won in 2006 then its impossible that he will win in 2011, after 5 more years of prosperity and even MORE people realizing that Democracy and Free Trade IS the way to go.

Our military will modernise, but right now we have more important things into witch invest our money now, in the budget for 2009 the military is getting cuts lol, we are going to use that money for infraestructure, education, etc.

The military will get their turn but War in higly unlikely. Ecuador poses no threat, Colombia has great relations with us and its worried with Venezuela, Brasil LOVES us (the Interoceánica Roads North and South mega proyects), Bolivia poses no threat amd it has many problems with its country near civil war right now (Santa Cruz department proclaimed autonomy) So that leaves Chile, who has billions invested in Perú and more to come, so really for what is Chile arming itself? they know there is NOT going to be a war, what are they afraid of? Argentina? Argentina doesn't have money to pay her debts and has had to nationalise (steal) the pention funds of its elderly population. 

Chile why are you arming yourself? what are you afraid of? That's the real mystery here.

# Zuri says :
22 November, 2008 [ 08:47 ]

This goes to Carlos B on this blog.
I think you must go back to school and take history lessons again. You say that Peru has won all wars against Ecuador? are you out of your mind or someone must have lie to you. Ecuador won the war of 1829 (it is nor 1828 as you say) when peru invaded Ecuador (as always had) After this war the peruvians got the nickname of GALLINAS remember now?

Ecuador repeled the peruvian invasion of 1981 and sent the peruvian army back to their country.

The war of 1995 was also won "by far" by Ecuador, when again peru invaded Ecuador in the jungle. It is true that peru has more men and military but they are inefective, inefficient and ill prepared.

peru has always wanted to invade Ecuador and take a piece of it. It doesn't surprise me that they also want a piece of the beautiful and peaceful country of Chile. I agree with Chile in re-arming their military because they know peru is a country you just cannot trust in, NEVER.

http://www.galapagos-islands-tourguide.com/ecuador.html

# PERU-NEXT-SUPERPOWER says :
22 November, 2008 [ 13:22 ]

Zuri,

It is obvious that you are an Ecuadorian, or an Ecuadorian/chilean  loving creep,  If this is the case, then what are you doing in this webpage?

Face it, Peru is the fastest growing economy in Latin America.  Peru is now economic allies with China, Korea, Vietnam, Japan, USA, Colombia, etc, etc.

And with regional threats of terrorism with the new Sendero-Drug union, the political conflicts with Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, it is OBVIOUS that PERU MUST and WILL BEEF UP ITS MILITARY.

PERU WILL SURPASS your expectations by far and is the NEXT MAJOR POWER in Latin America.

 
AUNQUE TE DUELA, ......zuri

# Pablo says :
22 November, 2008 [ 16:56 ]

Zuri, you are seriously deranged to say the Ecuador has won a war against Perú, why don't you talk with regular peruvians on the street and you'll see that nobody cares about Ecuador or its territories. You need a history lesson, Guayaquil was a city of the viceroyalty of Peru, wich became a part of Ecuador for complex reasons. Now independence was gained in 1821, and de facto in 1824, so any wars in those early years were just to define the final borders wich could easily change in the course of time.

Ecuador laid claims to a huge area of territory in wich it had 0 and i mean ZERO inhabitants and enormous geographical complications to colonize, since it was all mostly rain forest. Most of the population there was peruvian and they view themselves as peruvians, and this is backed by the fact that a "pro-ecuador" movement has never existed in any part of Perú. Guayaquil did wanted to be a part of Ecuador thinking they could be powerful in their own country and so after some disputes they went to Ecuador.

Now, when you fight a war, you want to WIN something, what has Ecuador won in 1995? i'll tell you, an economic crisis so deep that they had to give up their national currency and take up the dollar, change presidents like 3 or 4 times in a year, and a 1 square kilometer "shrine" to mourn their deads, wich is considered Peruvian territory. 

Some ecuatorians think all Perú does is to think how to invade Ecuador, this could not be further from the truth, but you have to come to perú and meet peruvians to know that. Now, perú has always defended from Ecuatorian attacks since we control the territory that Ecuador wants, a war could only benefit Ecuador since they have everything to win and nothing to lose (territory wise). 

Just be happy that our former leaders didn't decided to end the ecuatorian republic and split the country with Colombia. That has never been our ambition. You want to know what's the real ambition of some of us? to manage to somehow unite Ecuador+Perú+Bolivia into one great nation with over 51 million people 498 Billion GDP, 166 billion nominal GDP with a territory of 2.6 million km making us a Mammoth of resources, culture and potential.

STOP WITH THE WAR CRAP  

,

# Juan Carlos says :
22 November, 2008 [ 20:02 ]

"incatupacyupanqui":......hey, hey, hey!  why are you calling "Tito" a "racist ignorant pig"......you're degrading one of the greatest Inca around.....besides Pachacutec (your royal ancestor).

What if someone here called you: "supaypa wawa"?  would you like that?  I don't think so!  Don't embarrass the rest of us Peruvians by using such language. This postings are so long that the only one I was able to read was yours and a couple of others.  Be nice "incatupacyupanqui".....don't resort to insults, please! Remember you're a noble from the House of Pachacutec, like Erich Keller.  So, Inca Prince....be elegant please!
just keep telling yourself: "I'm a royal, I'm a royal"..."I come from a great race....I'm Quechua, not Mapuche", OK?

To the rest of you: military "experts" (Captain Dan not included...he's a real soldier) and other types. Do not worry about Chile....they are no threat to Peru, I don't care if they're arming themselves to the teeth. These people are just barking a lot, that's all. If they're going to pick a fight....maybe it will be with Argentina.  What are they going to do to us?  steal our toys?   Well....they better come up with something more intelligent than that! God gave those guys brains too.....they just have to use them! They need to come up with a better way to cope with their envy for our great country of Peru.  NOTHING much is happening in Chile these days.  Was the APEC meeting held in Santiago?.....no... are they getting millions of tourists visiting their vineyards? no...., does Chile have the "glamour", the "mystery" of Peru?....no,....do they have anything even closely related to Cuzco, Machu-Picchu, Kuelap, Sipan, Manu, the Amazon, etc.?  no,......Basically, Chile is very "basic" (pardon my redundance). What are their intentions?  to blitz us??  wouldn't that be a stupid thing for them to do?  then, they won't have anyone to compete with!! . Let them ruffle their feathers all they want.....that's their only way out of humiliation.

Everybody settle down and don't worry about what Chile may do with all that fancy equipment, maybe they're just trying to show off and impress Peru, just showing off .....it's ok, guys! don't lose sleep over this. It's their "defense mechanism"......but if they do decide to use those weapons on Peru, this time they'll have alligators chomping at their behinds.  Chita! la payasada!  What the blank does that mean anyway?? This is a phrase Chileans use frequently and it says something about "clowns"....but I have no clue what "chita" or "payasada" means in their language. Peruvians are vastly different from our southern neighbors, you know? 

So....everyone, stay cool, calm and collected.  Just let the Chileans "collect" avioncitos and soldaditos (look it up, you guys!).  They just want to go: "vroom!....vroom, vroomm!"......what's wrong with that??  Everybody, relax!

# Pablo says :
22 November, 2008 [ 20:10 ]

The Chileans are coming! the Chileans are coming!...O..M..G!  I'm so terrified and scared! Superman! Spiderman! Batman!  S.O.S!!

(I agree, Juan Carlos, it's "much ado about nothing".)

# the other "Pablo" says :
22 November, 2008 [ 20:16 ]

I just noticed there is another "Pablo" up above. Although I agree with what he writes...that "Pablo" did not write the last posting..(the one about "the Chileans are coming")...it was me, Pablo II

# Carlos B. says :
23 November, 2008 [ 00:00 ]

To Zuri:
Actually it is YOU who "must go back to school and take history lessons again". The first war between Ecuador and Peru, actually between Gran Colombia and Peru, was fought from June 3, 1828 to February 28, 1829. During this war the Peruvian navy managed to enforce a blockade from Guayaquil to Panama. In this war Peru occupied Guayaquil. In 1858, Ecuador granted consessions of Peruvian territory to British creditors and Peru responded by again invading Ecuador, again occuping Guayaquil, forcing Ecuador to declare the consessions null. In 1941, Peru occupied the Ecuadorian provinces of El Oro, Loja, and Oriente subsuquently forcing them to sign the Rio de Janeiro protocol granting the disputed land back to Peru. In 1981, the Peruvian military discovered the Ecuadorian military outposts of Paquisha, Mayaicu, and Machinaza in Peruvian soil and through force managed to take the bases and drive back the Ecuadorians. The exact same situation occured in 1995 although they occured at different bases but were located in the same general area. Over the history of this conflict, of almost the 200,000 square kilometers that have been disputed, 100% of it has remained under Peruvian possesion. Obviously as a result of this, Peru has been victorious not only in the five individual wars that have been fought but, in the dispute itself over all. Frankly, all of this really doesn't matter as we aren't living in the 19th and 20th centuries when all these conflicts occurred. Really what we should be discussing are ideas on how to improve economic links between the two counties so as to raise the standard of living in both countries. The only reason I responded were because of the blunt invalidity of your comments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Colombia-Peru_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian-Peruvian_war_of_1858
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian-Peruvian_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paquisha_War