175 Comments# Jet says :
3 September, 2007 [ 03:02 ]
If Peru doesn't wake up and come up with it's own military modernization programme, soon it will find that Chile will enforce it's economic "interests" and Peru will find that it will be on the loosing side of negotiations with Chilean companies that do business in Peru. Soon the ports of Arica and Callao will be under complete control and authority of Santiago unless Peru wakes up. This no longer has anything to do with the land lost during the war of the Pacific. This is now about Chiles new economic expansionist goals. Anyone who doesn't know about these goals is either ignorant or living in a fantasy.
The other thing Peru needs to do is come up with a counter plan for Chile arming Ecuador.
There are 2 clear and necessary steps Peru needs to take on this front.
1 - Peru must not only update it's own military, but it needs to create a new military front in northern Peru to prepare for the new threat coming from Ecuador with the help of Chile. This includes creating new land bases as well as a new northern naval facility. Remember that Chile will be giving Ecuador 3 submarines to use against Peru.
2 - The other most obvious step Peru must take to counter Chiles move to arm Ecuador, is Peru must help to arm Bolivia. Just as Chile is giving free to Ecuador the military armament that it's replacing with newer equipment, so must Peru give to Bolivia tanks, planes, heliocopters and other military equipment that Peru will replace with more modern equipment.
There is no doubt that this will give Chile something to think about when Bolivia can place on it's borders with Chile, tanks, missle batteries, attack heliocopters, etc....
In addition to what ever Peru can give to Bolivia, so also is Venezuela helping to prepare Bolivia for a confrontation with Chile. Venezuela is helping Bolivia build runways and installations on the Chilean border.
One day in the not too distant future, Bolivia will again have access to the sea and the rich mineral lands that were stolen from it. And when that happens, Peru will no longer have a border with Chile, which will also help prevent any future conflicts with Ecuador. The reason being that if Peru no longer has a border with Chile, Ecuador would never stand a chance of any type of military action against Peru. It should be obvious to all that this is the ultimate way to bring lasting and final peace to the southern cone of South America.
In Argentina, there is already talk of taking important steps to modernize and re-habilitate it's own military forces. The reason being that in the next 2 years, Chiles military will be capable of strking over 70% of Argentina and any given moment. This is something Argentina has never had to worry about. The leadership of Argentina in conjunction with the military council has studied the situation and are preparing now to take on the new challenge. There is even talk of a new alliance between the 3 countries, Argentina, Bolivia, and Ecuador. It would be a strategic alliance, insuring that if any 1 of the 3 countries were attacked by Chile, the other 2 countries would join in to its defense.
Even the Chilean leadership is aware of this, because they themselves have acknowledged that they must prepare for a war on >3< fronts!
So as most people might suspect. The next time there is a conflict in the Pacific, or the whole cone of South America, it will be very different than the one that happend over 100 years ago. This time the aggressor nation of the Southern Cone will find itself fighting a war against 3 other nations that will be prepared.
Ofcourse, nobody would want this to happen. No Chilean, Argentinian, Bolivian, or Peruvian. Only Chile can prevent this from happening. And its not by purchasing more arms. If anything, Chile purchasing more arms is making this eventual event happen even sooner. The real way Chile can prevent this is to renounce is aggressive nature and intentions of conquest, and even more importantly, return to Bolivia and Peru, that which is stole from those 2 nations in the last war.
That and ONLY that, will prevent the terrible event which is getting closer every year.
Lastly, I would just remind everyone of the words of the great Chilean Prophet Laura Antonia:
"there will be a horrible massacre in Chile, and as a result, there will be a civil war in Chile worse than that of 1973. A fire that begins in Argentina, crosses over the Andes and heads towards Chile. (a clear reference to the coming invasion)
"and in a dream, I saw a child, white a blue vest, white shirt, and red pants. This child pulled out of his pockets a whistle and blew it, and he became a man. He went to the bank, and got money out and with it, he bought a house. And then the same house that he built killed him."
"this child is Chile, and the death of modern day Chile, an idolotrous and aggressor that follows the beast. And the arbitrator of all of this is the Father in heaven Himself, paying back Chile for its trangressions and treachery".
2nd part - January 4th, 1980
"She saw that we were in a old and large house. On the roof there was the big construction in the shape of a metalic booth with metalic scaffolds. The construction had an enormous aspect and it was going to collapse on us. The roof of our house already had an enormous crack and this metallic structure was going to collapse on us at any moment now. That structure had a red color, and a stripe of yellow. Inside the house we always kept away from where this structure might fall to avoid being crushed. But we noticed on the other hand, that there was type of enomous kettle on the verge of exploding that was a blue/greenish color with yellow at the middle.
Our spiritual guide disconnected the kettle, so that it wouldn't explode but this didnt stop the action, and the kettle got even hotter and closer to exploding. So the guide plugged the kettle back in, and we knew it would explode at any moment. So we moved to a position that was 10 meters away, and put us between both of these dangers. We figured that in that place we would be protected. In the house where we were there were many soldiers with uniforms of battle, but they were all corpses, and their uniforms were drippin of human grease.
(It is a forcast of the coming war of Peru and Bolivia *whose flags show off the green, yellow, red, and white colors* and Argentina *whose flag shows the colors yellow, white and celetial blue.)
"And I saw a high hill, it was as long as the the length of Chile, and there were alot of people there. In the upper part of the hill there was a metallic resevoire, painted with the stripes that were red-white-red, and it contained a highly flammable liquid that was going to explode at any moment. Mother Laura saw many people fleeing and many came to where she was to take refuge.
Finally the resevoire exploded and fell on top of the people.
(the resevoire that exploded has the colors of the flag of Peru)
Becuase of these occurences, the Chilean people revolt against their own military.
23rd of January, 1986 -
"And then began an explosive revolt of the Chilean people against the armed forces in a sudden and unexpected form. There was tremendous loss of life. A massive rising of the people, lootings, executions, murders, and lynchings in the central plazas. Many innocent people parished. And no mercy was shown, even to the eldery, or women, or children."
Laura Antonia then said while seeing this horror "the French revolution is repeated now". It was a killing in general, so horrible.
"In the south, 2 trains were seen. I looked towards the Andes mountains, and I saw there were many more trains coming, and from the area of Puente Alto. And from the middle of that mountain range came a huge train that was Red"
Then Laura said she saw that behing that huge red train were innumerable more trains heading this way and the trains were symbolic of war.
She then saw in a prophetic dream, that she was carrying in her arms, a little baby, only a few months old, and then she arrived in front of a huge map which showed Peru and Bolivia. And then Laura said "Peru and Bolivia - the war has begun"
June 19, 1987 -
Mother Laura has a prophetic dream: "I see great destruction to the north of the river Mapocho. And more destruction in Santiago."
June 14, 1989 -
" A terrible oppresion in Chile. Thousands of people will be captured and detained"
May of 1991 - "Most of Chile is now destroyed, mainly just a desert now, no trees, just slabs of cement that are burnt. And the remains of men, also burnt and with wounds, all putrified. This is the end of Chile"
All of her prophecies up to now have come true. These are some of the remaining ones that havent taken place yet, but now we can see they they are at the door.
# erich keller says :
17 January, 2008 [ 10:02 ]
Hello,
Hi I am peruvian. Don't let my name fool you, I am also decendant of the Inca Pachacutec (my great-grandma is Esther Pachas, inca decendant of the house of Pachacutec).
I have a deep love for my country and hate the Chilean oppresion.
Everything you said sounds great, and I wish it were true. Only that Chile has invaded us so badly with their purchases of privatizations and industries, and businesses, that how can we stop them now?
They have no foreign debt and many in the international comunity will back up chile in a war, simply because they are a stable country and their interests are with Chile.
Peru itself is divided..... Many peruvians in Lima don't care about their brethren in the mountains and jungles, and many would not support a war against Chile simply because it's much easier for them to flow with the current of globalization than to fight an uphill battle for the interests of the country as a whole. Bribes and offers they can't refuse have been a norm in peruvian politicians. Fujimori for example, amassed a fortune in privatizations that were only beneficial to Chileans, Japanese and his own pockets.
I really would love to see a united Peru. Like Lincoln said, "United we stand, but divided we fall". Peru is a divided country, not just geographically, but ethnically, and culturally. Many in Cusco despise Lima, just like many in La Paz, Bolivia hate Santa Cruz. Just in education and resources, there is total injustice as the goods are not equally distributed..... and will they ever?
I sure hope things change and I loved your article. But is it truth.... or wishfull thinking?
# carl says :
17 January, 2008 [ 13:38 ]
I do not understand.
Someone has already said, that Chile has invaded Peru economically. Why Chile wants to make a War with us, corporate Chile will be hurt itself.
The trade between Arica and Tacna is in favor of Tacna, many people buy their products in Tacna because is more expensive in Arica ergo groceries store, medical tests, etc. and the people from Tacna is benefited with Chile's tourism. Besides, we can sell natural gas to Arica, Iquique, etc; since Chile does need those goods in that region.
We have to work together with the winner not with the loosers.
Tell me, do you want to join Peruvians, with the idea of a war. Peru never is going to be united. it is part of our culture. We do not have xenofobia, we do have xenofilia, we love people from other latitudes. It is easier to have a top executive officer who is foreigner than a Peruvian. It would be unacceptable for instance in Japan (that' s the reason why Fujimori did not win in Japan, regardless his ancestry he is peruvian). I guess some people want the idea of a War to make huge profit on it the sale of weapon is not cheap. I cant imagine how much can cost a missile. or an aircraft. etc. and what a huge comission for those people that trade with war toys.
A nation on war is not good for our tourism. Tourism industry is our main advantage.
# Romano says :
17 January, 2008 [ 14:17 ]
I cannot agree more with what all of you have said.
The only point I want to make is that any native or "adopted" Peruvians , either united or disunited, from Lima or Cuzco, in or out the country, wish to enter into war with Chile. Least the Chileans who are happy with the status quo.
Let us all focus on the big picture, not on wars or violence, but rather on much needed development for ALL if we really want to progress and be a single-minded country again.
Cheers,
Romano
# Mari says :
23 February, 2008 [ 16:09 ]
I totally agree with Carl and Romano and thanks to the foreign investors many of them from Chile, lots of people in Peru have jobs now, lets focus in the possitive, Chileans and peruvians need each other, lets make Bolivar dream come true that all our contries in South America be united, we are so close in culture, traditions, we should look the possitive way.
# Miriam Lang says :
6 May, 2008 [ 06:40 ]
To Jet... wow, you really have a lot of fantasy... you should really consider to write some science fiction books, or maybe you should join Tom Clancy's Team ;D
Chile is not a military aggressive country. Totally opposite!
Chile, together with Uruguay, are the 2 countries in whole Southamerica which had the longest war-free period from today backwards. 130 years of peace with it's neighbours, not alot of countries on this planet can show this. Otherwise all it's neighbours do have military conflicts from time to time (Peru, the country with MOST wars on this continent, does have wars regularily on approx ever 12 - 15 years).
Also the "war of the pacific", where you describe Chile as the "evil", was because Bolivia violated an international border treaty with Chile (and refused to undo it after a whole year) and same time Bolivia activated its secred ally (Peru, which it had bounded with malignity in purpose to violate the treaty with Chile, and have a military backup, genious!) to participate in the war. This can be easily verified in Wikipedia for example. The "Bolivian-Peruvian" trap did not work and the war got lost. So now that these plans did not work out, it was a trauma to most Peruvians, who though that they would easily beat Chile, which in these times was much weaker in the continental context, while Peru was a recently released viceroyalty of Spain. This trauma even remains today in big parts of peruvian society, which thinks its deserves special "position" due to the spanish viceroyalty legacy and is the reason why there is thirst for vengance and feeling of humilliation.
It's a pity that, even after 130 years, Peruvian society has not overcome this "issue" and keep the resentiment against it's southern neighbour alive.
Regards,
Miriam
# carl says :
6 May, 2008 [ 13:22 ]
I m Peruvian, and I m glad to having such a wonderfull Chilean companies in my country. We must forget things that has happened in the past and work together for the integration of the Pacific Rim.
Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Chile.
Those people who talk badly just want to divide our truly cooperation that Peru and Chile has together. Indeed Chile is still the model of our new free economy. When things were doom and gloomy here, the first companies to appear were Chileans such as Falabella, Ripley, Banks ; so we are greatfull, now companies such as Imagina, and construction building coming to Lima to create Limhattan. No way, about talking on War that stupid, that Chileans are going to harm Chileans Corporate. The most integration we have the better relation we will have.
# Tito says :
15 June, 2008 [ 22:53 ]
I would also like to commend Jet on such intriguing story telling... You can seriously make some money with all your b*******. First of all Bolivia did not follow a basic agreement. If you make a political agreement then you must follow it or else people (Chileans) will be very pissed off. That is exactly what Bolivia did, acting all macho (as they had their Peruvian counterparts ready for battle). So it's really like the little kid with his big brother talking crap just cause he thinks he's backed up however how glorious was it when Chilean troops stormed into Lima and paraded down their military palace wrecking havoc. It was absolutely brilliant and how deserving of that little kid (Bolivia) to lose their sea. It's like they say in the U.S., you don't mess with Texas! Well Peru and Bolivia don't mess with Chile because you will truly suffer a strong defeat. We don't like Peruvians or Bolivians only because you're still crying about defeat. Who's the goof that says Chile stole land. Of course we took land we conquered moron and feeling sorry we even gave back significant land to Peru (which I don't we should have done). You keep what you conquered, that's the bottom line. So Bolivia stop crying and unfortunately you just got to take it. Stop trying to have political talks about getting some of your sea back because Chilean nature will not allow that. We are winners and winners gripe and do not feel sorry for the loser. And Peru if you really don't like us then why the hell are you coming here to find work, can't you find decent jobs in your own country? I can say that if anyone messed with Chile you'd have so many other countries up your ass you wouldn't know what to do. Chileans/Argentinians/Uruguayans are liked (due to their european influence) Peruvians/Bolivians and mostly, "Indian" peoples are not. Unfortunately that's the way of the world, and I didn't choose this however at the end of it all I'm proud to be a hard-core Chilean Canadian and if Chile did ever go to war I'd be packing my bags and heading down to my beloved country to defend it from greasy, no good for nothing, leeching maggots like Bolivians and Peruvians.
Viva Chile
# CapitanDan says :
15 June, 2008 [ 23:50 ]
The 12 F-16's do not frighten me as much as the sabre rattling I hear in this forum. This attitude plunged the European Continent and the world into 2 wars. I am an American with, U.S., German and French passports and I live when I can in Peru. I also visited Chile many times. I love Peru for its climate and people and have no animosity towards any of it's neighbors. The F-16's by themselves are not a threat , because they can only be used as interceptors and do not carry the latest U.S. Technology. They do not have the smart bomb capability that was used by the U.S. and it's allies to bring down Iraq. Also they need parts that are only available from the U.S. and the U.S. WILL NOT LET A WAR BREAKOUT. China will also back the U.S. , because of the many interests it has in a stable Chile , Peru and Ecuador. I beg as a retired Soldier that Chile, Ecuador and Peru develop closer ties like Germany, England and France. These countries have suffered the most from silly nationalistic wars, that bled their countries of their greatest asset, "Their young Patriots". We are in a New Millennium, Lets solidify our friendship and build a strong coalition to fight the REAL VILLIAN of humanity. Disease, Famine, Pestilence and War. Lets Mock the Devil by looking to Peace, because we all no Hell is not even half full . Chau My Friends
# Inkayupanqui says :
16 June, 2008 [ 12:51 ]
Tito:
Your words prove that you are a racist ignorant pig with no education.
Soy Peruano and very proud of it. Peru has much more culture, history, folklore, flora, fauna, and geographic greatness, than Chile. Not to mention Gastronomy.
About you:
Chile has diferent social classes, just like any other country. You talk as if you were from the Elite Investing Class. Every good Peruano knows that the few truly rich in Chile do not share their wealth with the lesser chilenos like yourself.
That is why you would pack your soldier bag to go to war, and not actually live there NOW enjoying the priviledged chilean life today. No, you have to live in Gringoland to escape your mediocre status in Chile.
Hermanos Peruanos:
Let's always remind ourselves of the great land that we are from. Milenarian in History, Rich in Folklore and Culture, Geographic Wonder, the Best Gastronomy in the Americas, to name a few.
No need to care what ignorant and envious people comment here, like this Canadian chileno "tito".
Peru is growing in power. Much faster than Chile can control.
I am for the integration of Latin America, but it's these ignorant envious people that must be put in their place.
I am proud to be decendant of the house of Pachacutec. I have deep love for my Inca ancestry.
Peru and Bolivia have the most colorful in Folklore in the region. Why would we care what a chileno thinks? Saludos paisanos!
Viva Peru!
Inka Y.
# asd@hotmail.com says :
16 June, 2008 [ 14:04 ]
guys guys guys the real enemy here is HUGO CHAVEZ lets not forget about that, stop with all these nonsense we must get together peru argentina chile and colombia and fight against hugo chavez's idiotic ideas and **** BOLIVIA Seriously they have evo morales as their president? ***
# Miriam Lang says :
17 June, 2008 [ 19:39 ]
Hi Captain Dan,
you wrote:
"The F-16's by themselves are not a threat , because they can only be used as interceptors and do not carry the latest U.S. Technology. They do not have the smart bomb capability that was used by the U.S. and it's allies to bring down Iraq. Also they need parts that are only available from the U.S. and the U.S. WILL NOT LET A WAR BREAKOUT"
You really think that Chilean military is that naive? Of course there are decent arms for these jets, don't believe everything they tell arround.
The 28 (and soon 40) F16 in Chile have included in the purchase joint direct attack munitions, JDAMs, AIM-9 heat-seeking missiles, AGM-65 Mavericks and advanced medium range air-to-air missiles AMRAAMs. The FACh F-16s can also operate Israeli made Derby and Python4 air-to-air missiles which are used on our other jets. Not only american stuff works on this plane. ;D
But don't worry, there won't be any war here arround. As I mentioned before, Chile according to it's modern history is one of the most peaceful countries on this planet, we haven't had a war for 130 Years (can you tell this about your country?) and all the media in Peru is just playing with patriotism of population, because they abuse with their feelings and history. And most important: "Chile sells" in Peru, definitely. You won't have a day without a "Chilean title", while in Chile, when people think about Peru they think about folcloric things, macchu pichu and the immigrants in Santiago.
Cheers
# CapitanDan says :
17 June, 2008 [ 20:28 ]
Miriam, Neither the Israeli's nor any Nato country will supply any parts or Munitions to Chile if a War would break out .Each F-16 needs at least 10 hours of maintenance and parts to fly 1 hour. These are only made in the U.S.You can not just add equipment on these aircraft like changing the tires on a car. These are highly sophisticated machines that need to be re-calibrated and adjusted here and there.The Chilean Military is not naive, they bought these knowing the restrictions placed on these planes. Their only other option was to purchase Soviet aircraft, which you can Google up haven't done to well against U.S. aircraft . I commend your country for not being involved in a war for 130 years. I do not advocate war, or as I said, "saber rattling". I do not advocate Peru buying sophisticated aircraft either to match Chile's. These countries could spend these monies on many more worthwhile projects. Sadly my country and many others contribute to this lunacy. Chau
# J.V. Col. US Army Ret. says :
6 August, 2008 [ 16:16 ]
Very briefly . As a retired US Army Colonel now making my home in Chile . I can for sure agree with the assestment that of the Captain ,that the recently purchased F-16 are not a real menace to Peru .
Apart from what the good Capt. has stated . The Air Force regarless what my good Amigos think, it does not win any conflicts. For that you need boots on the ground .Particulaly now days , when wars are fought in a very unconventional and asymetrical ways .If you do not agree I suggest you talk to the former Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld. The real problems for Chileans , Peruvians and the rest of the lot is that simply , their countries have not been involved in a war and have seen their children come home dead. Stop this stupid argument , the reality is that neither country can afort to wage a war agaist the other.
What you all should do is drink some good Pisco and stop talking shit!!
# Not for a minute.... says :
6 August, 2008 [ 17:19 ]
Chile and Peru are too economically intertwined to do anything so stupid as starting a war. It would be political suicide for the ruling parties of both countries. Maybe Humala, with his nationalistic, macho chest beating could garner enough stupiity....
# powerpro says :
19 August, 2008 [ 18:30 ]
I also agree with the Capt. as a USAF Avionics tech.(recentlty retired) and also a peruvian by birth I think the F16 are not what the chileans think they have. For example like cars you have a model that has the basics to the so called fully equiped, and what you have is the basic model still an F16 but not fully equiped. Remember we sold the F14 to Libia and Iran guess what they have not been operational since they pissed us off.
This goes to all you chileans and peruvians that think war is the answer, have you guys seen the poverty and ignorance around your cities both contries. Instead of wasting your times on who has the shiny planes and tanks, and whos soldiers are dressed up the pretiest, talk about coming out the third world grade. Both contries need each other to do so. We should learn of what the europeans have done.
# MONI says :
19 August, 2008 [ 18:58 ]
Hey Tito,
first of, who are you to get into this site when you are chilean??
second, you talk bad things about peruvians. FIRST OF YOUR PEOPLE MIGRATE SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES WITH THE EXCUSE THAT YOU ARE POLITICAL EXILE, only to live on the govermment as the welfare, and Bachelet knows it. THE SAME AS THE GHETTO HERE IN THE USA, worst than them, you pretend that you are all that, i am peruvian because my country doesn't eat only beans and rice as your country, yes there is poverty like in any country in the world. DON"T GET INTO THIS SITE TO CRITIZE AND DISCRIMINATE PERUVIANS< I HAVE 3 nationalities but i love Peru where I was raised all my youth.Peru with its problems so what?? I feel sorry for you because your identity is poor, your self steem is on the floor, and most of all. If you are so good as a human being you wouldn't talk about other people insulting and at last discriminating, go to your Bachelet and God bless your country.
Look at your self in the mirror and ask your self the insecurities also about your country. ARRIBA PERU CARAJO HOY Y SIEMPRE.LOVE YOU PERU.THE DAY I DIE REGARDLESS OF MY NATIONALITIES, I WILL DIE PERUVIAN. CHEERS PERU!! SALUD CON PISCO PERUANO!!!
# Miriam says :
20 August, 2008 [ 04:44 ]
For all people that have been in Chile, they will know that this is so called "potential war" is no theme there. Only peruvian sensationalist media keeps this alive and from time to time the decent media there also participates to attract it's piece of mass attention and audience. Apart from media, many politicans use this theme to gain popularity. Fear and rivalism with Chile "sells like hot potatoes" in Peru, I could name you several peruvian newspapers that just exist due to what is called "Chile-fear-envy-challenge" related news on almost daily basis. You won't be able to find any counterpart like that in Chile. It's clear that the population will get affected by such "disinformation bombardment", fear is a very useful instrument for politics to distract from internal problems which are rather real, like for example extreme poverty, corruption, analfabetism and other internal issues which are very predominant in Peru.
When people in Chile think about Peru, they rather think about Machu Picchu, folcloric dance and other indigenous traditions and culture. Also they are remided by the permanent media attacks, but this does not prevail for a long time (it's perceived like little kids overhyping and crying to get attention) They also are aware of the mass migration coming from Peru, on legal and ilegal ways. People searching for a better life, mostly in a place in the center of Santiago called "little Lima", working as gardeners, nanas and household employees. Chile does not see Peru as a "rival", but rather as the poorer neighbour, which strongly struggles with it's identity and (glorious) Inca and Viceroyalty past.
In order to understand why there is this problem you must go back in history:
Since the spainards left southamerica almost 200 years ago, the bequeathed regional predominance and once status quo of Peru dissapeared (Peru was mostly liberated from spainards by Chile, "Argentina" and "Colombians" in the liberation expeditions started by San Martin and Bolivar), and this is the crucial point why there is this permanent challenging all the time. In peruvian subconciousness, there is the feeling that past regional domination must return. This is an old perception of the once small peruvian aristocracy which prevailed and now spread to general population. They are trying to get rid of, what they perceive as humilliation, by being surpassed in economic, political and other areas by the "smaller and poorer southern neighbour". So there is a permanent campaign to keep this challange alive and to regain once old glories, and this is done via media or even the president Alan Garcia, who often does have public speeches of how to literary reach and surpass Chile. He does not even try to deny it and due to regularity of showing too obvious complexes is even critizised in Peru. Many peruvians are starting to feel ashame for this, which is maybe an a good sign and hopefully an improvement in attitude.
To close this "war theme" just a reminder of 2 realities. During the 130 Years, Chile had 0 (zero) wars with it's neighbours...last one was in 1879. I don't think that there are many countries on this planet which can show such a pacific past. In comparison, during same period, Peru has had 7 (seven) wars with 4 of it's 5 neighbours, the last ones with Ecuador in 1982 and 1995.
I think that say's alot...of who's the wary one.
# jcwong says :
20 August, 2008 [ 05:02 ]
miriam, miriam, miriam your tone of voice
is very aggresive for a lady.
chile the most "pacific" nation on this planet?
look up "pinochet", and "guerra de las malvinas or guerra del cenepa chile's involvement" and please rewrite your elaborate arguments.
the web site is called living in peru not living in chile,
your audience is not who you think.
jcw
# Miriam says :
20 August, 2008 [ 06:18 ]
jcwong,
you rather like to manipulate citations or you are having problems with comprehension. I did not write that "Chile (is) the most pacific nation on this planet", but that not alot of nations on this planet can show a non-war period with it's neighbours of 130 years, which is the case for Chile and that I therefore doubt seriousness of such a title putting same country as a kind of "agressor" . Do you get the point or should I explain with apples and pears? ^_^.
Now my counterquestion: Do you understand Peru as a peaceful nation and victim of anybody sourrunding it? So that means that the regular wars that Peru had in the recent past is only a conspiracy against your country? I have often read this from some of your countrymen and women and that perfectly fits into the scheme I explained before.
The point about me being a women, I don't see your point about "being agressive". Are women in your town, region or society not allowed to talk or discuss about certain themes whatever they are? hummm...
Regarding this site being called "livinginperu", I dont think I have to remind you of the existence of searching engines, these are able to filter every word you search and will show you respective results on any page on the net, like in this case our foreign minister "Foxley" or "Chile" (my country by the way). Now if you dislike my arguments on this article reffering to Chile and you feel bad about this, sorry for intervening, but you should mabye maybe try to refute it with other arguments or tell the admin to not allow Chileans to write on your pages like it's often the case on other media like Peru21.com, just as an example. In an open society, everybody should be able to refute and question vericity of articles spread. Don't you think?
# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 09:14 ]
Tito the "Shilean",
Why are you talking war? You live in T.O.?
Forget the war. With global warming, glaciers melting, etc. we will all suffer anyway. We are all doomed. So, why die any sooner, killing ourselves in SouthAmerica?
# CapitanDan says :
20 August, 2008 [ 11:07 ]
JC, Miriam is as sharp as a Tack. She has many good points.As for women not speaking out. They are the one's that suffer the most in war. The men go and get killed or wounded. Either way the women have to assume the burden of feeding and taking care of the family.The easiest solution to this problem is to invite either the EEUU or the Russians to put a Military base in Peru.Ha, Ja.Ja. This should stir things up. Chau to all my fearful Friends
# CapitanDan says :
20 August, 2008 [ 11:33 ]
JC, I forgot to mention that some of the worlds most accomplished SPIES were women.
Now Miriam , your not spying on us in Peru are you?Ha,Ja,Ja,.
Chau Friends
# Yei vi says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:10 ]
Ok. You all WARRIORS .This is something for you to think about.
Peru has .
1.- A GDP of around ...........219 Billions US $
2.- A population of around......29 Million people
3.- A per cap. of around.........US$ 7,800
4.- A public debt of around.....29.2 % of GDP
5.- A population living below the poverty line 44.5%
5.- A military expending of around 1.5 % of GDP.
In the other hand Chile has .
1.- A GDP of around ..............231 Billions US$
2.- A population of around......16 Million people
3.- A per cap. of around.........US$ 13,900
4.- A public debt of ..............4,1 %
5.- A population living under the poverty line 18.2 %
5.- A military expending of around 2.7% of GDP.
Now lets think about this , en global terms Peru has all sort of internal and economic problems and this fact is of course reflected in the military.
The Chileans and the other hand , do not have the problems of Peru and its military , albeit not at war in over 100 years, is in pretty good shape .
Now then , A Peruvian - Chilean war would have to be fought mostly in the Atacama desert. So to prepare for the war , lets look at a very important fact . Such as -
A.-The number of active troops and number of tanks.
Active troops.- Peru 110,000 ............Chile 86,000
Number of tanks.- Peru 300.............Chile 320
Number of Air combat.-Peru 75.............Chile 100
And as I indicated earlier this war will be fought mostly over the desert , so the Navies will have a limited impact . It could be used to for blockades and other military actions , but the war would have to be won on land.
ONE MORE FACT. Both countries have important natural resources relatively near each other ,that can be reached and be damaged by the enemy. However , the major population and industrial centers such as Lima and Santiago are much farther away from the anticipated area of conflict. With Lima being closer to the Chilean border , than Santiago to Peru. Think about it.
So now , my My Peruvian and Chilean ESTRATEGAS .
Which country , do you think can .
1.- Pay for the war.
2.- Which country would start a war.
3.- What would be the motivation for the war.
4.- What would the country gain by going to war.
5.- Setting aside sentimientos patrioticos , Given tha facts presented above. Which country has a better chance to win the war.
Before anyone tries to give me an answer . REMEMBER ! No country can commit itself to a war , that can not be paid for.
I will wait for your answers .
Be smart , be practical and above be honest .
I will take on any and all responses , but I do not want to hear about other countries getting involved , it will not happen .
I will let you know in a very honest way , what I think of your answer.
Carry on SOLDIERS !!
# rice and sugar says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:26 ]
Thank you, Yei Vi for the information. Good questions too.
# CapitanDan says :
20 August, 2008 [ 15:45 ]
Yei Vi, Thanks for the Logical analysis. Unfortunately Politicians do not use logic. They gain power through Emotional responses. Look at Hitler's attack on Russia. Thank You again, Chau Friends
# Paul says :
20 August, 2008 [ 16:43 ]
Jet.... this utter nonsense only serves to distract people from the real issues, and perhaps have them support Peru spending $110 million dollar fixing up the ageing MIG jets or supporting the increasing US presence in Ayacucho, instead of thinking of its needy population. Diversion tactics. There is simply no way it would happen. Chile has too much money invested in Peru.
# Yei Vi says :
20 August, 2008 [ 19:42 ]
First , thanks to Rice and Sugar . Did not answer the questions , but understood the implications contained therein.
Second , to Captain Dan. You are 100 % correct , but did not have to go as far in time, as to cite Hitler ,for much closer to our time we have.
A.- The Georgia - Russia conflict . Which it did not need to have happened , had it not been for the absurd President of the Georgian Republic and based on certain so quasi commintment from the west , i.e. The USA and some European countries.
B.- The USA involvement in Irack , an ilegal and inmoral war of choice , based on falsehoods and poor understanding of the culture.
C.- The Falklands Island war , created foolishly by the then President of Argentina to take away from the peoples mind Argentina´´s internal economic problems . Perhaps you may remember that Argentina was soon out of resources and Peru ,had to lend Argentina its inventory of Exocet missiles. I was in London at the time that The Sheffield was sunk by an Exocet . It sort of change England´s reliance in building light vessels without heavy armor .
Third ,to Paul , you too are correct in your response to Jet , this sort of nonsense only serves to distract people from the real issues confronting them and the politicians knowing this fact take advantage of this knowlege.
Jet´s point of view is based upon a whole lot of bad information and truly and complete and poor understanding of the real facts.
Ok. Then ,since I answered the questions , I will now go and make me a nice Pisco Sour and just to be fair . This time Peruvian Pisco and Chilean LIMON DE PICA!!! Next time it may be just a good glass of Chilean wine and picante Ceviche Peruano.
# carl says :
21 August, 2008 [ 06:57 ]
As far as I m concerned Peru, welcomes Chilean to invest in our country without restriction.
We have seen that Chileans entrepreneurs work well together with our Peruvian workers, Retail, Airlines, Tourist industries, etc.
Peru is growing twice than Chile right now.
# jcwong says :
21 August, 2008 [ 08:50 ]
dear miriam:
..."To close this "war theme" just a reminder of 2 realities. During the 130 Years, Chile had 0 (zero) wars with it's neighbours...last one was in 1879. I don't think that there are many countries on this planet which can show such a pacific past. In comparison, during same period, Peru has had 7 (seven) wars with 4 of it's 5 neighbours, the last ones with Ecuador in 1982 and 1995.
I think that say's alot...of who's the wary one.".....
you should read again you lines "miriam" from chile, if you're not implying that chile is one of the most peaceful countries on the planet then youre right, i have a reading comprehension problem.
the bit about "living in peru"...well the site is created by expats (professionals living and working in foreign countries usually for multinationals) to inform english speaking readers about life in a developing country like peru, in case you're still not getting the point the site wasnt created for chileans to lecture the world about peruvian history or any other subject.
and to conclude i dont have any problem whatsoever with women expressing their views, i have a mother, a wife and a daughter, but your tone of voice is excessively pompous, sanctimonious, defensive and agressive for a man or a lady.
why do we need you to tell us or anybody else about our own history, let alone our aspirations anyway?
who are you?
if you go through the article again you might realize that a such a military build up for a small nation is a bit puzzling, for the peruvian intelligence services and military, we (chile and peru) are supposed to be getting closer comercially so what would be the purpose of starting an arms race.
when was the last time peru attacked chile? occupied and annexed a large part of its territory, expulsed after severe mistreatment tens of thousands of its local (original) population? went through the entire country looting, sacking, and raping civilians?
jcw
# Miriam says :
21 August, 2008 [ 10:14 ]
jcwong,
this page is open and accessible for everybody, who has a connection to the internet...and as you can see, everybody can enter, read and comment here. If this would only be intended for a specific circle of people and professionals, it would surely be locked and for registered users only. On the other side, if this site is only for professionals living or working in Peru or outside Peru (and related to it), why the heck is this article about Chile being an agressor? So you expect all readers to keep arms crossed and everybody who reads should think "uhhh, evil chileans want to harm the poor Peruvians?" *gg*.
If this is the case, sorry for disturbing your party here, I just brought another aspect into it... ;D
By the way, on regional basis, Chile is one of the most peaceful and selffocused nations...like it or not. Which does not mean it's a perfect country or free of errors and problems (which one is?). Military spenditures are nothing spectacular... just average. Like Captain Dan already mentioned, nobody is going to start a war or invasion because there are 30 new planes (which replace another 50 old ones), thats somehow childish. Another point which maybe in not considered... there are different meassures of defense budgets. Chile does include the pensions of retired army and the salaries and equipment of the police into it. Not sure if Peru does same. Salaries are higher in Chile (if you consider average income of each country, with Peru arround 3500 nominal dollars and Chile with 10.000 nominal dollars, so the army will need more money on this aspect. Also... the military budget is related to the total buget and GDP of the country, which is higher in Chile, despite having half of the population (164.000 million vs 108.000 million $ of Peru). All aspects and facts which must be considered.
# jcwong says :
22 August, 2008 [ 07:50 ]
this what chileans mean when they say wevadas?
we (peruvians) just keep our mouths shut when we hear such brilliant
arguments, some people are not even worth insulting.
good bye miriam from chile, I'm sure we'll run into
each other in another web site.
# moni says :
25 August, 2008 [ 19:55 ]
guys,
who gives a crab who has more or not. BEING IN A POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD> FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS MILLIONS OF WANABEES WHO PRETEND TO HAVE THEY DON"T HAVE NOTHING. THe bank owns everything and why will you worry about so much. what bugs me is why stupid chileans has to be in Peru or it is because they can;'t find what they want in their beautiful Chile. Peru with its problem believe me if you know how to live in Peru; it is the most amazing life I ever had, freedom, those ones who never enjoy their lifes in their own country talk about it. REgardless that the political situation is not right in Peru, i can say I enjoyed my country, i love peruvian food, it was a luxury living as a queen, when i came to Usa i had to be realistic, because here only the rich have butlers, chef and so forth. Love You Peru no matter what they say, and those retards chileans go back to your tripe country to enjoy life as Peru negro, valses, ceviche, tondero, life itself, the andens, the ocean, its people, real ones. Love you Peru forever!!!!!
# moni says :
25 August, 2008 [ 19:55 ]
guys,
who gives a crab who has more or not. BEING IN A POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD> FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS MILLIONS OF WANABEES WHO PRETEND TO HAVE THEY DON"T HAVE NOTHING. THe bank owns everything and why will you worry about so much. what bugs me is why stupid chileans has to be in Peru or it is because they can;'t find what they want in their beautiful Chile. Peru with its problem believe me if you know how to live in Peru; it is the most amazing life I ever had, freedom, those ones who never enjoy their lifes in their own country talk about it. REgardless that the political situation is not right in Peru, i can say I enjoyed my country, i love peruvian food, it was a luxury living as a queen, when i came to Usa i had to be realistic, because here only the rich have butlers, chef and so forth. Love You Peru no matter what they say, and those retards chileans go back to your tripe country to enjoy life as Peru negro, valses, ceviche, tondero, life itself, the andens, the ocean, its people, real ones. Love you Peru forever!!!!!
# moni says :
25 August, 2008 [ 19:55 ]
guys,
who gives a crab who has more or not. BEING IN A POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD> FOR EXAMPLE THERE IS MILLIONS OF WANABEES WHO PRETEND TO HAVE THEY DON"T HAVE NOTHING. THe bank owns everything and why will you worry about so much. what bugs me is why stupid chileans has to be in Peru or it is because they can;'t find what they want in their beautiful Chile. Peru with its problem believe me if you know how to live in Peru; it is the most amazing life I ever had, freedom, those ones who never enjoy their lifes in their own country talk about it. REgardless that the political situation is not right in Peru, i can say I enjoyed my country, i love peruvian food, it was a luxury living as a queen, when i came to Usa i had to be realistic, because here only the rich have butlers, chef and so forth. Love You Peru no matter what they say, and those retards chileans go back to your tripe country to enjoy life as Peru negro, valses, ceviche, tondero, life itself, the andens, the ocean, its people, real ones. Love you Peru forever!!!!!
# miriam says :
26 August, 2008 [ 09:54 ]
Hi Moni... so why did you leave Peru towards USA then, if it was "living like a queen" ? Very contradictory ^_^
Regarding the "stupid chileans" from the "tripe" that are in Peru (what low class you are to insult that way). I guess you mean the Chilean investors like LAN, Falabella, Ripley, Cencosud (owns biggest retailer WONG), INKA Farma, the port owners, and many, many more... You ask why they go to Peru? It's easy to respond:
1. They have an easy game to expand in Peru, due to non-existance and mediocrity of peruvian "competitors". (Thruth is sometimes hard, sorry)
2. They have reached multinational status and spread over various countries, not only Peru, but also Colombia, Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador and Mexico. Once a peruvian company reaches this status, they will expand too, then. But I do know none yet, guess there are no ones yet.
I do agree on the nice peruvian food, though. That's something outstanding from your country.
# Yei Vi says :
27 August, 2008 [ 08:50 ]
This is written for Moni and Mirian.
First of all as a retired US Army Colonel making my home in Chile . I can speak from a neutral point of view , without NINGUN PREJUCIO!!!!
I have served in Peru as well in Chile . I just love to visit Miraflores and eat at the Rosa Nautica and enjoy the company of my Peruvians friends.
Peru is a good country , however presently besieged with economic problems and to denied such a fact is simply absurd.
The reality expressed by Moni is one often expressed by people that have recently left one´s home and tend to remember how every thing was so terrific in their country.
However , what I do not understand, is the vitriolic opinion stated by Moni regarding the Chileans investing in Peru . Global investing beyond borders is something that has enable humanity become what we are today and this often happens when one´s country economy is strong to trade outside its borders.
Perhaps , Moni does not remember why Cristobal Colon accidentally discovered The Americas. Insulting the Chileans serves no purpose . They are in Peru , simply because they can , just like Americans , Canadians and other countries investing in the Peruvian economy.
AS to Mirian. You are rather strong in your opinions and it does not serve you well . I have reviewed other comments made by you and to be sincere are not very becoming of a LADY.
I think you need to tone down a bit .
As a son , a husband and a father , I respect the right of a woman to express her opinion , but Just do not care to have that opinion stated in bad form .
Best to both of you.
Yei VI
# jcwong says :
27 August, 2008 [ 10:27 ]
really miriam, you sound like an angry chilean!
please go away
# moni says :
27 August, 2008 [ 18:47 ]
First of,
why are you on this site, and if you still going to talk your non sense, guess what i will do the same thing, don't you have any interesting site in your country to debate?? Reason why i got in this site is because i am peruvian can you get, it says it all. Why i am american because one of my parents is american da!!!!
Who are you trying to convince or persuade your rich Chile do me a favor do it in your chilean site not on this one because then i will be continue bragging and write non sense because here and over there i have free of speech and i will do anytime, anywhere and whenever i want to write non sense. Give up do yourself a favor, get a life!!!! Probably you don't have any.
LOVE YOU PERU, LOVE USA BECAUSE MY KIDS WERE BORN HERE AND BECAUSE I PAY MY TAXES AND BECAUSE I AM A FREE HUMAN BEING. WHO I AM VOTING I WISH HILLARY COULD BE THE PRESIDENT OF USA, BUT I WILL VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE NO WAY THE REPUBLICANS WILL MAKE THE AMERICANS BE IN MORE DEFICIT. BYE
# Miriam says :
28 August, 2008 [ 07:49 ]
Hi Yei Vi,
indeed I have a very own opinion and might be sounding somehow "agressive" to you. It also might be that I may not be fitting into "lady like" scheme you have in mind, though you shouldn't judge based opon an opinion related to a polemic theme, nor tell me how I have to behave or what to do, unless I have not crossed your personal rights or offended you. Everybody is different and does not need to be put in cases. With all respect.
I do know the limit very well and will not start to insult or atack personally on a very low way like some people do here. Nor I am going to " "praise" how great Chile is... and that every thing else is worth nothing". There are no perfect countries, neither there is only black and white. So I suggest everybody to keep focused on the theme and it's roots, which in my opinion... is a very old legacy which must be overcome. That only can ocurr, fighting sensationalist media which lives out of polemic and distorted views to incentive agressivness and blind hype.
Regards,
Miriam
# jcwong says :
29 August, 2008 [ 04:21 ]
you make as much sense as cantinflas miriam,
please just go or find a tall building.
# Yei Vi says :
29 August, 2008 [ 07:10 ]
Mirian . First . Thanks for your response and please be advised that my answer to you is based ön my desire to explain what I intented to say you do not express yourself in a ¨lady like manner¨ and particularly your used of language in your answer to me.
Now then . I agree with you that, you indded have strong opinions and in all candor , there is nothing wrong in stating one´s point of view in strong terms. A strong opinion simply reflects a person character and it is a good thing.
Now . Having stated the above. I hope that you would agreed with me , that a reasonable person would conclude to be of bad form to describe companies in THE HOST COUNTRY as non existing due to the mediocrity of PERUVIAN COMPETITION!!!!
Please I ask you . How this can not be but agressive and not insulting-
I will wait for you reply.
Yei Vi
# Miriam says :
29 August, 2008 [ 10:54 ]
Hi Yei Vi,
if there was any "not ladylike manner" sentence I addressed to you, I would be very pleased if you mention this to me, so I can recognize my error and maybe improve on it. Though I do not remember having addressed you any offensive or "agressive" note so far?
Regarding the "mediocrity of the peruvian competitors", indeed this was by far the most "outstanding" and "agressive" dedication I had so far and almost had a some seconds of doubt after writing it, this one escaped out of me. But if you track the discussion correctly, it was a direct response to Moni... and if you are fair enough, you surely will recognize it was far more "lady-like" then the first provocation. Am I supposed to put my second cheek to be slapped? I am no saint, even some people expect this from me... ^_^.
Though if we analize this, you surely know this characterization is not that wrong (about the competitors), or can you name me world- reknown examples of successful multinational Peruvian companies, which have penetrated foreign markets and gained some monopolic status there?
Anyway, I keep wondering why you, as sombody with "ningun prejuico" pick me as the one to critizise on "agressivness" when there are obviously other female beings here with direct and harsh personal attacks which you do not seem to see, but just my replies to it are worth analizing.
The last comments from Moni must have been very hard... my mail tells me she has about 10 comments each of the last 2 days, but they seem to get censored, who knows why...
Kind Regards
# EM says :
6 September, 2008 [ 17:46 ]
My friends I use to feel upset about the land lost, But as a fellow Peruvian told me , What would we have done as Peruvians to improve the city of Arica if it is as properous now, something we do not do to our cities in the north. Now i believe it would be a good idea to let the US. Open up a base to the north like supposedly they want to do, which could be use by Peru also. It is a proven fact that economies of the area would improve, roads electricity we can began to urbanize the forgotten areas, do a lease maybe 10 years. But there will be an agreement that if peru was ever invaded the US forces are obligated to Protect our territory jus like Nato, But this will be call Southpacor, Or South Pacific Organization. We should take adbvantage of the fact there will be a base to the north and also give tax benefits to companies to move there and have families move there. Also we need less corruption in our government everytime we refinance or debt.
# Gary Brightman says :
6 September, 2008 [ 18:00 ]
Don't forget Wal-Mart. Hundreds should be opened. Tax breaks should be given and small stores closed by law.
Wal-Mart is proven to be beneficial to me and other top level employees. Proven.
# Em says :
6 September, 2008 [ 18:23 ]
No, I said lower the debt we owe to IMF if we keep refinancing and not use this money well. We invest .20 cents and pocket the rest, the 90 billion or so we owe will never decrease and we'll suffer as we still do mean while some crooked Politician invest the money he stole buying US Bonds. Slowly we'll get out of an unjust free trade.
Top level employe were do you work bake shop, please!!
# Carlos B. says :
14 November, 2008 [ 22:08 ]
Honestly this entire discussion is idiotic, and I particularly find the posts by miriam ignorant. Yes Peru is a relativley impovrished country but were not Ireland, Japan, France, Italy, Great Britain, and many other industrialized countries of the world at one time in this position? The fact of the matter is that when observing a country really the only thing that matters is its culture and history as these are the only permanent factors that charecterize a country. Frankly, Peru exceeds Chile culturally in almost every aspect and there are little who could argue otherwise. Peru was the home to dozens of pre-Colombian empires including a few who even conquered Chile. Peru, in the colonial era, had dominion over all South America and Lima and Cusco were intellectual centers of art, science and culture. No matter what happens in the future, may it be economic upturn or downturn, Peru will always be based upon these historic roots, roots that Chile lacks. Chile at any time can go into a downwards economic spiral and then what? They will be left with nothing but their desert and ice sheets. Peru's economy is growing at 9% a year. The claim that Chilean investment is domininant in Peru is perposterous. Those "chilean" companies you claim that control Peruvian economics are all publicly traded meaning that they can be owned by any person of any nationality in the world, most of whom are foreigners. Peru's economy is growing at nearly double the speed of Chile's (9%vs.5%) and anyone even slightly giften in economic mathematics can predict that Peru's economy will soon overtake Chile's Then what? Peru will still maintain its rich culture and it's booming economy while Chile recedes into mediocrity and will still maintain their current lack of anything artistic or enlightened. Economies change in a matter of days, culture is the true source of pride as it is something which is permenant. Also, in response to the racist comments voiced in the above posts by ignorant chileans, I myself am Peruvian and am often mistook for a European when traveling abroad. My surname is Balducci, and I am sure the poster Tito who wrote that racist bullshit is most likely a low life ignorant himslef who is by all means much more stupid, ignorant, and lazy than any hard working intelligent and informed Peruvian of indigeonous descent. Ironically, that poster himself is most likely descended of indigenous people of Chile as the vast majority of Chileans have indigenous ancenstry. This however is besides the point because the color of your skin does not determine your intelligence obviously as the ancient Empires of Peru who were of pure indigenous blood as the Europeans had yet not arrived, were the first to perform such complex works of ingenutiy as brain surgery, vast highway systems, the first and possibly only succesful communist society, incredible architectural feats such as complex irrigation systems, and stunning architecture such as Machu Picchu. All of this was accomplished using ancient technology and Chile, now in the modern era with all the modern technology available, will never be able to even begin to match the ingenuity of Peruvians. Tito and miriam are ignorant and apparently stupid as exemplified by their comments.
# Tupac a. says :
14 November, 2008 [ 22:38 ]
A fact. At an ecuadoran Base in Manta Ecuador, there is a map of Peru, or should I say an Ecuadorian version of it with some writing which is inbeded into every Ecuadorian military service person there with a lot of Peruvian territory claimed as theirs. I was probably the only Peruvian born who has had access to this base at the time ... since I am former U.S military, Now I believe we need to be Upgrading our military, or has someone taken a look at that wall latelly, let me know if that map has been corrected. We need to be less corrupt and think about our national interest and remodernisize our Military, a good idea to give some hardware to Bolivia and with the U.S selling hardware, why not buy some modern planes or Ticonderoga class cruisers, which should be a reall bargain right now.
# QA says :
15 November, 2008 [ 09:38 ]
Damn, The end of the World, The World's War is going to Start In Peru//
# inka7 says :
16 November, 2008 [ 13:45 ]
Carlos B.<
Very well said. Could not agree more. Chile is so uncultured compared to Peru. It's like comparing Egypt (Peru) to Chile (hmmm, chile). Not to worry about their Chilean military, because with all the FTA's, treaties, and foreign investments from China, the U.S., the E.U., Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Canada, etc., the world will back up Peru against Chile.
Sorry Chile, but Peru is no longer at your mercy. And it will surpass you soon.
to Tupac a.:
I would not worry about Ecuador at all. This same principle applies to Ecuador, and Ecuador has little power and $ to go against Peru.
So Peruvians, sleep well, the future is on our side.
# inka7 says :
16 November, 2008 [ 13:45 ]
Carlos B.<
Very well said. Could not agree more. Chile is so uncultured compared to Peru. It's like comparing Egypt (Peru) to Chile (hmmm, chile). Not to worry about their Chilean military, because with all the FTA's, treaties, and foreign investments from China, the U.S., the E.U., Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Canada, etc., the world will back up Peru against Chile.
Sorry Chile, but Peru is no longer at your mercy. And it will surpass you soon.
to Tupac a.:
I would not worry about Ecuador at all. This same principle applies to Ecuador, and Ecuador has little power and $ to go against Peru.
So Peruvians, sleep well, the future is on our side.
# Carlos B. says :
21 November, 2008 [ 23:05 ]
Im sorry, but in regards to the comments made by Tupac a., a military threat to Peru from Ecuador is a joke. The Peruvian military is vastly superior and better equipped to that of Ecuador and if you recall, in the past two centuries, Peru has won all five wars against Ecuador (1828, 1858, 1941, 1981, and 1995). Presently however, with Ecuador being ruled Rafael Correa, a leftist nationalist leader, a conflict might for some reason be intigated. Leaders such as him and Hugo Chavez have extremley irrational ideas in there minds. As you said there are maps in Ecuador showing it controlling Peruvian territory as evidence of this. If any conflict were to arise however, I predict that due to the disparity of prepardess, equipment, and strength, the Peruvian military would be at the gates of Quito within a week. Despite this, I beleive that the probabilty of war is very unlikely in regards to either Chile or Ecuador because war is detrimental to any nation's economy.
# CapitanDan says :
21 November, 2008 [ 23:25 ]
Carlos, I agree with you that this sabre rattling is insane. Ecuador has it's own internal problems to deal with. As for the Chileans, they are happy with the trade between Peru and Chile and the investments in Peru... As for the Peruvian Military being at the gates of Quito in a week. I wouldn't bet on it.. It took them that long to get to Chin Cha after the quake and no one was shooting at them.... 
This only proves that Peru needs to re-evaluate their military spending to a dual purpose military... Chau Friends
# Pablo says :
22 November, 2008 [ 07:35 ]
Please people, there is not going to be a war between Peru and Chile, Chile's investments on Perú have reached 5 billion, and in 2009 will be the main focus of Chile's foreing investments. The thing is that Peru's investments in chile amount to only 50 million or less. A war from Chile towards Peru is idiotic and there is no reason to do so.
Now, Perú doesn't have economic problems, we are going to grow 9.8% this year, and will continue to grow for many more years. If we are resisting THIS economic crisis then we can be sure to grow at high percentages for more than 15 years till the next economic crisis.
The thing is, if a war is so out of the question for any country in South America, specially between Peru and Chie. Okey maybe a war against Venezuela can happen if crazy Chavez does his crazy things, but highly unlikely.
Now Chilinians are crying their eyes out because they can see their economic advantage slipping away and can feel the day when Peru's economy will outgrow theirs and keep growing and growing because the "roof" of Peru's economic potential is many times higher than Chile's. We have the resources to be a World Power, a country with a huge economy and resources capable of being part of the G20 or G8 in the next 20-40 years.
Maybe we are poor now, sure we are, but we ALL now that with our stability (we have Investor Grade, together with Chile, Brazil and Mexico in Latin America) and economic performance we have years of prosperity insured for us. If Ollanta didn't won in 2006 then its impossible that he will win in 2011, after 5 more years of prosperity and even MORE people realizing that Democracy and Free Trade IS the way to go.
Our military will modernise, but right now we have more important things into witch invest our money now, in the budget for 2009 the military is getting cuts lol, we are going to use that money for infraestructure, education, etc.
The military will get their turn but War in higly unlikely. Ecuador poses no threat, Colombia has great relations with us and its worried with Venezuela, Brasil LOVES us (the Interoceánica Roads North and South mega proyects), Bolivia poses no threat amd it has many problems with its country near civil war right now (Santa Cruz department proclaimed autonomy) So that leaves Chile, who has billions invested in Perú and more to come, so really for what is Chile arming itself? they know there is NOT going to be a war, what are they afraid of? Argentina? Argentina doesn't have money to pay her debts and has had to nationalise (steal) the pention funds of its elderly population.
Chile why are you arming yourself? what are you afraid of? That's the real mystery here.
# Zuri says :
22 November, 2008 [ 08:47 ]
This goes to Carlos B on this blog.
I think you must go back to school and take history lessons again. You say that Peru has won all wars against Ecuador? are you out of your mind or someone must have lie to you. Ecuador won the war of 1829 (it is nor 1828 as you say) when peru invaded Ecuador (as always had) After this war the peruvians got the nickname of GALLINAS remember now?
Ecuador repeled the peruvian invasion of 1981 and sent the peruvian army back to their country.
The war of 1995 was also won "by far" by Ecuador, when again peru invaded Ecuador in the jungle. It is true that peru has more men and military but they are inefective, inefficient and ill prepared.
peru has always wanted to invade Ecuador and take a piece of it. It doesn't surprise me that they also want a piece of the beautiful and peaceful country of Chile. I agree with Chile in re-arming their military because they know peru is a country you just cannot trust in, NEVER.
http://www.galapagos-islands-tourguide.com/ecuador.html
# PERU-NEXT-SUPERPOWER says :
22 November, 2008 [ 13:22 ]
Zuri,
It is obvious that you are an Ecuadorian, or an Ecuadorian/chilean loving creep, If this is the case, then what are you doing in this webpage?
Face it, Peru is the fastest growing economy in Latin America. Peru is now economic allies with China, Korea, Vietnam, Japan, USA, Colombia, etc, etc.
And with regional threats of terrorism with the new Sendero-Drug union, the political conflicts with Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, it is OBVIOUS that PERU MUST and WILL BEEF UP ITS MILITARY.
PERU WILL SURPASS your expectations by far and is the NEXT MAJOR POWER in Latin America.
AUNQUE TE DUELA, ......zuri
# Pablo says :
22 November, 2008 [ 16:56 ]
Zuri, you are seriously deranged to say the Ecuador has won a war against Perú, why don't you talk with regular peruvians on the street and you'll see that nobody cares about Ecuador or its territories. You need a history lesson, Guayaquil was a city of the viceroyalty of Peru, wich became a part of Ecuador for complex reasons. Now independence was gained in 1821, and de facto in 1824, so any wars in those early years were just to define the final borders wich could easily change in the course of time.
Ecuador laid claims to a huge area of territory in wich it had 0 and i mean ZERO inhabitants and enormous geographical complications to colonize, since it was all mostly rain forest. Most of the population there was peruvian and they view themselves as peruvians, and this is backed by the fact that a "pro-ecuador" movement has never existed in any part of Perú. Guayaquil did wanted to be a part of Ecuador thinking they could be powerful in their own country and so after some disputes they went to Ecuador.
Now, when you fight a war, you want to WIN something, what has Ecuador won in 1995? i'll tell you, an economic crisis so deep that they had to give up their national currency and take up the dollar, change presidents like 3 or 4 times in a year, and a 1 square kilometer "shrine" to mourn their deads, wich is considered Peruvian territory.
Some ecuatorians think all Perú does is to think how to invade Ecuador, this could not be further from the truth, but you have to come to perú and meet peruvians to know that. Now, perú has always defended from Ecuatorian attacks since we control the territory that Ecuador wants, a war could only benefit Ecuador since they have everything to win and nothing to lose (territory wise).
Just be happy that our former leaders didn't decided to end the ecuatorian republic and split the country with Colombia. That has never been our ambition. You want to know what's the real ambition of some of us? to manage to somehow unite Ecuador+Perú+Bolivia into one great nation with over 51 million people 498 Billion GDP, 166 billion nominal GDP with a territory of 2.6 million km making us a Mammoth of resources, culture and potential.
STOP WITH THE WAR CRAP
,
# Juan Carlos says :
22 November, 2008 [ 20:02 ]
"incatupacyupanqui":......hey, hey, hey! why are you calling "Tito" a "racist ignorant pig"......you're degrading one of the greatest Inca around.....besides Pachacutec (your royal ancestor).
What if someone here called you: "supaypa wawa"? would you like that? I don't think so! Don't embarrass the rest of us Peruvians by using such language. This postings are so long that the only one I was able to read was yours and a couple of others. Be nice "incatupacyupanqui".....don't resort to insults, please! Remember you're a noble from the House of Pachacutec, like Erich Keller. So, Inca Prince....be elegant please!
just keep telling yourself: "I'm a royal, I'm a royal"..."I come from a great race....I'm Quechua, not Mapuche", OK?
To the rest of you: military "experts" (Captain Dan not included...he's a real soldier) and other types. Do not worry about Chile....they are no threat to Peru, I don't care if they're arming themselves to the teeth. These people are just barking a lot, that's all. If they're going to pick a fight....maybe it will be with Argentina. What are they going to do to us? steal our toys? Well....they better come up with something more intelligent than that! God gave those guys brains too.....they just have to use them! They need to come up with a better way to cope with their envy for our great country of Peru. NOTHING much is happening in Chile these days. Was the APEC meeting held in Santiago?.....no... are they getting millions of tourists visiting their vineyards? no...., does Chile have the "glamour", the "mystery" of Peru?....no,....do they have anything even closely related to Cuzco, Machu-Picchu, Kuelap, Sipan, Manu, the Amazon, etc.? no,......Basically, Chile is very "basic" (pardon my redundance). What are their intentions? to blitz us?? wouldn't that be a stupid thing for them to do? then, they won't have anyone to compete with!! . Let them ruffle their feathers all they want.....that's their only way out of humiliation.
Everybody settle down and don't worry about what Chile may do with all that fancy equipment, maybe they're just trying to show off and impress Peru, just showing off .....it's ok, guys! don't lose sleep over this. It's their "defense mechanism"......but if they do decide to use those weapons on Peru, this time they'll have alligators chomping at their behinds. Chita! la payasada! What the blank does that mean anyway?? This is a phrase Chileans use frequently and it says something about "clowns"....but I have no clue what "chita" or "payasada" means in their language. Peruvians are vastly different from our southern neighbors, you know?
So....everyone, stay cool, calm and collected. Just let the Chileans "collect" avioncitos and soldaditos (look it up, you guys!). They just want to go: "vroom!....vroom, vroomm!"......what's wrong with that?? Everybody, relax!
# Pablo says :
22 November, 2008 [ 20:10 ]
The Chileans are coming! the Chileans are coming!...O..M..G! I'm so terrified and scared! Superman! Spiderman! Batman! S.O.S!! 
(I agree, Juan Carlos, it's "much ado about nothing".)
# the other "Pablo" says :
22 November, 2008 [ 20:16 ]
I just noticed there is another "Pablo" up above. Although I agree with what he writes...that "Pablo" did not write the last posting..(the one about "the Chileans are coming")...it was me, Pablo II
# Carlos B. says :
23 November, 2008 [ 00:00 ]
To Zuri:
Actually it is YOU who "must go back to school and take history lessons again". The first war between Ecuador and Peru, actually between Gran Colombia and Peru, was fought from June 3, 1828 to February 28, 1829. During this war the Peruvian navy managed to enforce a blockade from Guayaquil to Panama. In this war Peru occupied Guayaquil. In 1858, Ecuador granted consessions of Peruvian territory to British creditors and Peru responded by again invading Ecuador, again occuping Guayaquil, forcing Ecuador to declare the consessions null. In 1941, Peru occupied the Ecuadorian provinces of El Oro, Loja, and Oriente subsuquently forcing them to sign the Rio de Janeiro protocol granting the disputed land back to Peru. In 1981, the Peruvian military discovered the Ecuadorian military outposts of Paquisha, Mayaicu, and Machinaza in Peruvian soil and through force managed to take the bases and drive back the Ecuadorians. The exact same situation occured in 1995 although they occured at different bases but were located in the same general area. Over the history of this conflict, of almost the 200,000 square kilometers that have been disputed, 100% of it has remained under Peruvian possesion. Obviously as a result of this, Peru has been victorious not only in the five individual wars that have been fought but, in the dispute itself over all. Frankly, all of this really doesn't matter as we aren't living in the 19th and 20th centuries when all these conflicts occurred. Really what we should be discussing are ideas on how to improve economic links between the two counties so as to raise the standard of living in both countries. The only reason I responded were because of the blunt invalidity of your comments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Colombia-Peru_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian-Peruvian_war_of_1858
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian-Peruvian_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paquisha_War
# Erich Keller says :
10 December, 2008 [ 17:41 ]
Look up videos of Chile's military...... Look at their uniforms....... HELMETS.......... Goose step....... they SCREAM...... NAZIS.
It is obvious that ever since Pinochet, Chile has remained a FASCIST entity.
As a German, I can tell you.
# Erich Keller says :
19 December, 2008 [ 17:10 ]
You are an ignoramous. It has nothing to do with the Nazis an all to do with the Prussian military model and it’s legacy in the Chilean armed forces. The Chilean Army is the last Prussian Army of the world, which is an anachronism in these days. As such they derive both the strengths and flaws of the Prussian model.
As a German - you should study your history.
# Levithian Force says :
19 December, 2008 [ 17:10 ]
You are an ignoramous. It has nothing to do with the Nazis an all to do with the Prussian military model and it’s legacy in the Chilean armed forces. The Chilean Army is the last Prussian Army of the world, which is an anachronism in these days. As such they derive both the strengths and flaws of the Prussian model.
As a German - you should study your history.
# Levithian Force says :
19 December, 2008 [ 17:10 ]
Erich Keller
You are an ignoramous. It has nothing to do with the Nazis an all to do with the Prussian military model and it’s legacy in the Chilean armed forces. The Chilean Army is the last Prussian Army of the world, which is an anachronism in these days. As such they derive both the strengths and flaws of the Prussian model.
As a German - you should study your history.
# Heinrich Von Strasser says :
20 December, 2008 [ 16:33 ]
Levithian force:
I disagree with you. For your information the Prussian model was only used for the design of the wehrmacht's "look". But the fascist ideology of the Nazis is what Pinochet copied.... along with the Prussian "look".
So as a Chilean, you need to study your own history, before you tell others to do the same.
Ok, Cheap Prussian Sudaca?
# Heinrich Von Strasser says :
20 December, 2008 [ 16:35 ]
Levithian force:
I disagree with you. For your information the Prussian model was only used for the design of the wehrmacht's "look". But the fascist ideology of the Nazis is what Pinochet copied.... along with the Prussian "look".
So as a Chilean, you need to study your own history, before you tell others to do the same.
Ok, Cheap Prussian Sudaca?
# Wolfgang Schnider says :
20 December, 2008 [ 16:43 ]
Regardless of what Chile is doing, I believe that all this military armament is pointless. Look at the very few resources they have. And it has been proven that military might alone cannot subdue an unwilling people.
As a German, I saw how my country was destroyed by the tyranny of an expansionist country.
# Levithian Force says :
20 December, 2008 [ 18:28 ]
Chile isn’t expansionist, it has never been in conflict with any neighbour for the last 130 years. Peru on the other hand has been at war with chile, columbia and as recently as 1951 with ecuador. And still after 130 years politicians and military men act in a violent and agressive manner, they utter bitternes against their neighours while WW2 was the most violent war in history yet the European countries united and buildt their countries up and created a union and share common goals and interests. Yet somehow many Peruvians 130 years have past and they still live in it (the past) instead of reaproachment and cooperation. Playing into the hands of the Russians, Europeans and Americans to conquer and divide. For them a weak latin america is a weak latin america open for further exploitation, something my dear German friends should know very well of - sout america, the sanctuary for German nazis and the like.
# Levithian Force says :
20 December, 2008 [ 18:32 ]
Besides your not even german, you just make up german sounding names and blurt out idiocies. I doubt you saw the destruction of WW2, unless you are between 75-80 years old and if this is the case and you live now in retirement in Peru, Chile, Argentina or any other South Ameican country - you probably succseded in escaping the nurenburg trials. Nazi
# Levithian Force says :
20 December, 2008 [ 18:34 ]
I mean to write for them a divided latin america is a weak latin america - open for exploitation - as history has shown over and over again.
# Pablo says :
20 December, 2008 [ 22:40 ]
Peru has been in wars because it has been invaded by Colombia, Brazil and Ecuador. Now this is a difficult matter because in the thick of the jungle (were all of this "wars" were fought) was in those days No-man lands, very difficult terrain and specially dificult to demarcate the borders of each country.
Also take into account that Perú has 5 diferent borders and its located in the center of South America, Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Bolivia and finnally Chile.
While Chile only had 2 Borders until they decided to Expand and gain a third one.
Just because a country fights wars doesn't mean its expansionist, and Perú didn't suffer a dictatorship that butchered its own people, and 99% of the Nazi refugees went to Brazil, Argentina and Chile.
# Levithian Force says :
21 December, 2008 [ 05:05 ]
Peru has had many military dictatorships, and they have butchered its own people. As a matter of fact Peru is not know for having had any stable government the last 130years - the politicians like to point fingers at Chile while corruption is wide spread, indigenous people are the poorest, and the police is corrupt. Then it’s not strange that cities on the border with Chile want to become Chilean, many Peruvians there have nationalised themselves as Chileans so they get all sorts of rights in Chile - they can go to Chile for healtcare. Thousand apon thousands go to Chile to seek work, and they work hard and they make a deasent living as opposed to back home in Peru. It’s funny - I saw a Peruvian News broadcast where they were talking about the need to be fearful of the "chilenization" of Perus economy, that the Chileans where taking over - always manage to make Chile look like some big Satan. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOzJKmCyynU )
This is the numbers on forgein investment in Peru: Spain (32.35%), the United States (17.51%), the Switzerland (6.99%), Chile (6.63%), and Mexico (5.53%).
# Pablo says :
21 December, 2008 [ 21:11 ]
I don't know were you get your info but, Perú has never butcherd its own people. Not even remotly close to the levels of the Pinochet Dictatorship. And only in the last 20 years has Chile improved its economy.
Now that some peruvians want to go to Chile, sure but there are many many peruvians so don't generalise. What peruvian city wants to become chilinian? Tacna voted AGAINST being a part of Chile and the Tacneños are known for hating Chile more than anyone. And what's this about no stable gobernment? since 1980 there have been Democraticly elected governments in Perú, the Fujimori administration tried to become a dictatorship but failed. Furthermore there has never been a dictatorship that have lasted as much as the ones in other countries or any dictatorship accused of civil rights violations at not even 1% the degree Pinochet achieved.
Now for the past 8 years the peruvian economy has been growing at an average of 7%, this year we'll have a 9.8% growth, and the next year, with the economic crisis at its worst, we'll grow 5%-6%. 10 more years of a growth of 7% average and we'll have far surpased Chile's economy, that's why most chilean bussiness are realocating to Perú.
And what some Chilinias are really afraid is that between the
Bright Stars of the Argentinian and Peruvian cultures everyone will forget about chile, its economy and its people. And CULTURE is something you don't get as easly as money, CULTURE is overflowing in Perú, with the economy growing as it is the chilinians here are going to be Peruanised in one generation.
And the "poor indians" are the ones behind the recent drive in Perú's economy. We're developing a more homogenous population than ever, sure there are problems but that won't stop us from surpassing Chile, our real contenders are Colombia, Brazil and Argentina. Venezuela will sink after the Oil Boom. We are just on another level. Don't try to compete were you don't belong. Chilinian
# Yeivi says :
7 January, 2009 [ 20:29 ]
Well . I am sending this note to you from my home in Orlando , Florida Having spended time in both Chile and Peru . I guess you people do not have nothing else to do but to BITCH at each other , but for a few opinions , most of what you say is so absurd , as to be shamefull.
Please do yourself a favor and quit giving opinions ,that to be frank are badly informed in both substance and creed and demostrate your awfull understading of your own history.
As I stated much earlier , neither country can wage a war against the other , please STOP and find a common ground that can be helpfull to both countries , otherwise POX in both of your houses.
# Levithian Force says :
7 January, 2009 [ 20:48 ]
Well, well, yet another american duchbag besserwisser. I’m sitting here in Scandinavia and it’s funny to hear an american talking about other peoples bitching at each other. pot calling the kettle black
# Levithian Force says :
7 January, 2009 [ 20:50 ]
bitching about people bitching, nice one Yeivi. Let’s bitch about that shall we, oh, and wishing pox on nations wow, speaking of biological agents.. what nation was it that sold antrax to saddam hussain again? lol
# David N says :
7 January, 2009 [ 23:14 ]
Peru...Chile...both worthless scraps on the globe. Who would want either one?
# Yeivi says :
8 January, 2009 [ 05:48 ]
GEE WIZ Levithian ......Or should I call you a Serpiente.
Anyway. Thanks for making my point regarding my comment in reference as to people giving opinions that are badly informed in substance and creed.
However, before I go on . I advise you to read my comments dated August 6 , 20 and 27. Only then can you earn the right to insult me personally. Until then , you are not entitled to offend me at all.
Now . I will teach you something . The phrase ´´ POX IN BOTH OF YOUR HOUSES ´´ comes from the play Romeo and Juliet and it was spoken by Mercutio as he was about to die .
This phrase is often use to criticize warring factions whose rivalry brings harm to others and to themselve.
Regarding the US giving Biological Agents to Saddam Hussein . I am most interested in knowing your source.
Now , to the other readers . I asked this guy if I should call him a Serpiente , not as a personal insult , but to simply underscore that Levithian in fact means serpent or sea monster in the Jewish tradition.
Finally , As a retired USA Army officer , having served as advisor in both Chile and Peru . I have nothing but respect to both countries and it pains me to see people whose history is so involved with the other , waste their time , in a subject that is no longer current , nor valid .
What you should do is to learn from the European Union , particularly the Germans and the French , two countries that in the last century went to war with each other two times and now are trading partners fostering each other economies for the good of their people.
# Pablo says :
11 January, 2009 [ 02:27 ]
This is all talk.
Chile is one of the main trading partners of Peru, just like
France and Germany. That is what is real, The rest is just talk from some people who just like to talk to themselfs.
# Incabear63 says :
21 March, 2009 [ 09:20 ]
First off, I am a proud Peruvian. With that said I say the following. Peruvians make fools of themselves by saying that Chile is a country without history or culture. The most cursory study of this topic will render it void. Chile is a country that deserves admiration. That's right, admiration. While Peruvians obsessed over their past glories and Argentines swooned at themselves gazing into mirrors, the Chileans built for themselves a solid country. With a country less rich in resources than either of those 2 neighbors Chileans understood the math and set about doing what they needed to do. I believe fervently in the concept of national traits and/or character and the Chilean national character is one that is objective based. It is by far the least "latin" and "catholic" of the populations in the region. There is a strong vein of the anglo-germanic-protestant ethic(s) that has served them well. It is for this reason that I, as a Peruvian, do not trust them. It is possible to admire and respect someone or something and not trust them. Human beings, contrary to more simplistic interpretations, are not one dimensional creatures where everything is understood in terms of all or nothing.
Chilean investment is Peru has no doubt had a beneficial impact on Peru and that has to be recognized as fact. However like all other human activities one has to wonder about other motives beyond the economic for such aggressive investing. Chile speaks of "integration" as a term of fraternity with its neighbors and particularly Peru. From the Peruvian perspective such embraces must be carefully filtered through our histories. One must understand that those same traits and forces that led Chile to act as it did in the past are still at play today. I dont blame Chile for acting on its own interest, no nation in Latin America has done this better. Peruvian governments, so long inept, corrupt and in essence useless, now fling the doors of the country open to investment from the southern country. Peru does this at its peril. I dont suggest a cutoff of investment of course. Trade and investment are the main engines of the Peruvian economic miracle. However it cannot be unregulated and unwatched. Chile understands quite well that Peru is only now beginning to awaken from its centuries old lethargy. At the present rate of growth and even at lesser levels, Peru will match and eventually surpass Chile in economic development; it is only a matter of time. It is in Chile's national interest to be in the "driver's seat" of this awakening. It wants to be the fox that is seen as the mother when the eggs hatch.
I hope Peru understands this and acts accordingly. All that being said I have very little faith in the Peruvians' ability to see to the national interest of their country. It is incredibly frustrating when I think of what Peru could be today if we had some of that "protestant" ethic in our national character. But those are all just pipe dreams I suppose.
# wassaponin says :
10 April, 2009 [ 08:55 ]
after reading this entire thread i feel like Incabear63 comes closest to summing this whole thing up lol...though i don't understand that distrust. i'd say that, if anything, the current setup is more of a symbiotic relationship where neither party has any ill intentions towards the other. as far as war, there is no threat of war between any of the countries on the lower half of the continent, that's just silly. though if there were i think it would not be prudent to bet against the country w/the best equipped and most disciplined military on said continent...not to mention the strongest economy which we all know is vital to a healthy war campaign...i think, taking in to account their military histories, it would be a somewhat one-sided victory for Chile no matter who the opponent might be...but that's just one guys opinion, not trying to ruffle any feathers here.
peace out homeslices..
# wassaponin says :
10 April, 2009 [ 09:07 ]
only thing i forgot. David N, the epitome of a butthead. as funny as it is i also find it sad that in 2009, anyone w/access to a computer could still be so ignorant..
once again, peace and hairgrease..
# Sleeping GIANT says :
10 April, 2009 [ 12:00 ]
To Incabear and wassapenin:
Regardless of Chile's PRESENT economy and machinery (notice I put CAPS on PRESENT, because all that can change quickly considering that Chile has very little natural resources and depends others to oil it's bearings, hydro and electrify their powerplants, and gas their ovens..... to name a few. They use the gains of their sale of copper and invest in their war machine.....which could easily change if the demands of copper change, as well as if Peru exploits their own copper and takes over the market, etc, etc.)
So, having said that, Chile cannot depend solely on military might based on their sales of copper....that will change....at any time......specially if the markets go down or the value of their currency does.
Most importantly, Peruvians do not like Chile, and any invasion from Chile will be answered with civilian sabotage and 100% resistance. A Chilean soldier would not stand a chance in Peruvian soil. THE PEOPLE WILL UNITE AGAINST ANY CHILEAN SOLDIER. NOT EVEN A TANK WILL HAVE ENOUGH GAS OR SUPPLIES TO LAST INSIDE PERU FOR LONG.
So get over the idea that military might alone is going to allow Chile to conquer Peru. They don't have the natural resources to stay long in Peru. ...And Peru has powerful allies now such as USA, Japan, China, etc, etc.
The world would unite against Chile if they dared attack Peru.
Peru is a sleeping giant waking up. With many resources and many more men for it's cause. Chile is passing it's peak and has fewer men and very little natural resources.
Again....just because you have tanks and jets does not mean you have what it takes to conquer a people.
Give it up "wassaponin", it ain't gonna happen. Chile's best days are passing. Peru is next in line.
# wassaponin says :
10 April, 2009 [ 12:49 ]
LOL.. and who said invasion? or anything about conquering? you're too funny sleepyhead lol
# sleeping GIANT says :
10 April, 2009 [ 16:01 ]
"Sleepyhead"? ........... You sound like a dork.
"Who said invasion? ....conquering?" For your information, this is a democratic blog, and the topic of war and military includes the possibility of invasion. If you study history you will see that Chile DID invade and occupy Peru for years.
So, you need a history lesson on the war of the Pacific. ....Not to mention some common sense.
# incabear63 says :
12 April, 2009 [ 11:46 ]
Thanx for the comments Wassa.
Your analysis is basically sound however I feel it misses a key ingredient. This being the "history" of our countries. Our histories are not one of neighborly feelings or actions. The only time when the countries acted in unison (to some degree) was during the Chincha Islands War that culminated with the defeat of the Spanish invasion fleet off Callao, in Peru. That was for self interest of course - for both countries - so all good there. Other than this brief embrace the history is less benign. As I wrote in my earlier comment, Chile understood its position to be vulnerable in terms of population number and resources. In addition it was a small strip of land surrounded on at least 2 sides by potentially expansive powers. Lucky for them, on the one side you had the Argentines being blocked by the Andes and by the even greater barriers of their own vanity and sloth; and on the other hand they had the hapless Peruvians too busy hating other Peruvians of perceived inferior race and class. In that context Chile was able to thrive. Their national spirit is much more united than others in the region. Their nationalism is not just waving the flag and weeping at the sound of their national anthem. No...it is simply more solid in that they are more united than others in a dedicated effort to advance the cause of Chile, however they may perceive that.
So..to answer your question about mistrust. The mistrust exists for various reasons. One being because Peruvians still feel the sting and dishonor of defeat at the hands of a supposedly inferior foe. This however is an incorrect supposition. The fact is that Chile has almost never been inferior in military terms to Peru. The last time Peru had the upper hand militarily was during the 1970's and early 80's. Pinochet himself said that had Peru attacked then, the Peruvians would have taken half of Chile.
During the War of the Pacific in 1879, the military imbalance was such that it could be said that Chile attacked a country that was basically
unarmed. Bolivia was even less ready for any such action and quickly dropped out of the war, leaving Peru alone to deal with the British trained and equipped Chilean juggernaut. The results of this aggression are all too well known.
Now, while it is true that we cannot live in the past one cannot simply ignore it either. The past holds many lessons and very often the DNA of a people. I suggest that the "past" of our 2 countries yields profiles of our respective DNA's that need to inform our present.
From the Peruvian perspective (the one that matters to me as a Peruvian) Chile needs to be seen as a neighbor that has done all it could thoughout its history, either covertly or overtly, to weaken the Peruvian state and to hamper its development. This statement may appear to be in direct contradiction with Chile's current investment scheme in Peru. However I argue otherwise as follows. I submit that Chile has been heavily investing in Peru as a means of controlling (via what they call "integration") the Peruvian economy. Peru began to awaken in the mid 90's and it hasnt looked back. I believe Chile underestimated the strength and reality of the Peruvian rebirth and was unable to exert pressures to hamper this development. As a result the tactic changed. The Chileans changed to a "control through integration" policy. It is important to understand that to Chile it must be terrifying to have to face the possibility of a truly independent Peru, with a strong economy and well funded military capable of asserting its will through "reason or force"...as is the Chilean national motto. I dont suggest Peru would ever outright attack and defeat Chile and submit them to the same indignities and brutalities that they did to us. We are not made of the same mettle....unfortunately.
Other reasons for the distrust lie with Peruvians only. The shame of the defeat has triggered a national trauma that finds its outlet most fervently in anything related to Chile. This is unfortunate but real enough and for better or for worse informs the national character.
And so...I do not hate Chile or Chileans. In fact I admire them and their country. I have to admit that I am jealous of how much they have achieved with so much less than what we have. I truly hope there is never another war between us and that eventually we truly can live in peace in an atmosphere of mutual good will. I hope for this but I dont think it is realistic. Our histories are living things that dont go away because we want them to.
Cheers.
# wassaponin says :
13 April, 2009 [ 11:05 ]
incabear it's a pleasure to read your posts, no matter how i may feel about the validity of the "facts" stated in them, and again, i'm not disagreeing with you completely. also, i never stated my nationality...just mention that b/c you refer to the history of "our countries"...if that's not how you meant it then pls disregard.
you mention the war of the pacific and how Chile attacked a country that was "basically unarmed". the way that i understand it, Chile retaliated against a two country coalition which attacked it...and had obviously greatly underestimated it and were therefore quickly dismissed. that being the case i can certainly understand the animosity that remains...though like the old adage says, no use crying over spilt milk. so both countries should get over it and look to the future and to future possibilities...and this, of course, should be with each's own benefits as priorities.
regardless of some minor points i find that your arguments are well informed and interesting to read so thanks.
peace in the middle east...
# jcwong says :
14 April, 2009 [ 03:00 ]
Sleeping guy, To Incabear and wassapenin, etc
I assume you're all well intentioned and I dont mean to criticize nor ridicue in any way. Your analysis is a bit exaggerated, Chile’s success after the war was short lived and they never developed tarapaca (until recently), Peru took about 30 years to recover and moved on, the territorial loss and expulsion of Peruvian nationals, that's another story.
The humiliation and unnecessary brutality of the occupation, Chorrillos, the lynch expedition, etc that's what's kept in the national (collective) memory although 130+ years have passed. remember chile was nothing but a far away place for exiles and criminals for almost 400 years and before that, the southern border of the inca empire. not exactly a place to give much consideration. Until recently, chile was governed (almost 3 decades) by one of the most corrupt and dictatorships, I'm not sure what it is we should admire since many of the people in power then are still around in key positions.
The current Chilean investment in Peru is trivial $6.2 billion invested mostly (70-80%) in retail services (clothes and supermarkets), not exactly something to worry about and certainly not something that will benefit peru in any profound way except as a source of semi skilled labor. We produced the same industries in past, some even lasted over 100 years (oeschele for example). it's just a matter of time before peruvian owned corporations expand and control all retail. the competition is always welcomed since it is the consumer that benefits.
Anyway, the military build up is a bigger and real threat. not because they're planning an invansion anytime soon but because it gives their foreign policy more "substance".
But again, we've been able to produce large and effective armed forces in the past (the 80s were not that long ago) and there's no reason why we couldn't do it again, soon and rather quickly, and with the benefit of reduced prices thanks to the financial crisis.
saludos
jcw
# Rodrigo says :
14 April, 2009 [ 05:20 ]
Peruvian Army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YkN84wXD5k
MIG-29 SMP(SMT)- PERU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREHqWSVTjI&feature=related
FUERZA AEREA DEL PERU 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbysFWA5f_Y&feature=related
FRAGATAS TIPO LUPO DE LA MARINA DEL PERU 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxqE1EcYlEA
chile sera destruida
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED45XZjNdMw&feature=related
Guerra Perú Chile - La respuesta Parte 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-7eBF2TslU&NR=1
Guerra Perú Chile - La respuesta Parte 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVnJlbQcwk&feature=related
Guerra Perú Chile - version Peruana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYxJPr677hY&feature=related
Guerra Perú Chile - version Peruana II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyoZcAKE3CM&feature=related
ejercito del perù preparado para la guerra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-1WaPhKbBs&feature=related
Fuerzas armadas del Perú ( M.N.S.N.P.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkp6TyS0ncI&feature=related
FUERZAS ARMADAS DEL PERU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQQRqkdEq8Q&feature=related
Fuerzas armadas del Perú II.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw5HSaYE3U
Magnifica Fuerza Aérea del Perú con Honor y Orgullo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n60zUpAyCs&feature=related
PERU, AVIONES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilgZLhxE97g&feature=related
FOES Peru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bh37GVAC2g
fuerzas especiales del perù foes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOz_t7kx-Uw&feature=related
FOES (FUERZA DE OPERACIONES ESPECIALES)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0D6Ro5JAA&feature=related
EJERCITO DEL PERU CURSO "PUMA"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jTWJiBJK4s&feature=related
comandos peruanos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TcJFSH-lI&feature=related
COMANDOS PERUANOS II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QIPvcGs9w4&feature=related
COMANDOS PERUANOS III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLQxwI2nTME&feature=related
Infanteria de Marina del Peru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zysuPcQO0uI
Toma de la Residencia de la Embajada Japonesa en el Peru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbVtolRIQAs&feature=related
Peruanos el mejor rescate del mundo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaNM8qbZcs0&feature=related
Operacion Chavin de Huantar Parte 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gvTT2bQOgY&feature=related
Operacion Chavin de Huantar Parte 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jTo0P9YzfQ&feature=related
Operacion Chavin de Huantar Parte 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvOTfKNbeDU&feature=related
# Jet says :
14 April, 2009 [ 22:06 ]
Rodrigo I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by posting all of those youtube links. Every single one of them are pure fantasy and have no basis in current reality. If a war to break out currently between Peru and Chile, in military terms Peru wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe in another 4 or 5 years if the economy continues to grow rapidly, Peru MIGHT be able to equip itself enough for a proper defense, but nothing more. The ONLY chance Peru would have of even dreaming about "defeating" Chile is if some time in the future Peru, Bolivia, Argentia all re-arm themselves in a manner that puts each one of them on-par or atleast close to being on-par with Chile, and then all 3 of the countries join in an effort together to defeat Chile. Otherwise, those youtube links are just a sad delusional joke.
# jet is wrong says :
14 April, 2009 [ 23:00 ]
You are wrong Jet. It is not just the wait until Peru arms itself. It is also the short while before Chile runs out of resources and influence. Copper alone is not enough. Chile's days are numbered. You say alot about Chile having the upper hand, but they are out-numbered and they will soon run out of natural resources. Peru has strong friends now, and any attack from Chile will bring about international outcry. Chile would be finished then. People in the world love Peru, for all it's culture, travel, charm, etc. Chile is just good for wine tasting but is infamous for being a fascist entity expansionist country.
If you have not already learned from other wars, military might alone will not subdue the will of the people. Chilean troops will not last in today's Peru.
Also, Peru is the new star rising economy with much more to offer than chile in resources, too may to name in comparison with Chile.
The world will back Peru.
# Jet says :
14 April, 2009 [ 23:09 ]
Peru and Bolivia singed a mutual defense agreement due to the fact that Chile had been heavily arming itself for the past decade before the time of the war of the Pacific. Both Peru and Bolivia had also become aware of the strategic and financial interests that Britain had attached to the area which later Chile was to take from Bolivia and Peru with the financial and military backing of Britain.
Chile was never "attacked" by a coalition, but rather Chile invaded Bolivia which then triggered the mutual defense pact that Bolivia had signed with Peru, since both countries knew that they were at a great military disadvantage and risk due to Chile's expansionist aspirations and frenzy of military aquisitions.
Read the history of how Chile attacked the Peruvian Federation YEARS before the War Of Nitrates, simply because it would prevent Chile's expansionist agenda.
Peru was already aware of this severe military imbalance well before the war began, and it was waiting the arrival of many significant armaments to be delivered from Europe. Indeed, several naval vessels were already on en-route to Peru thru Britain, but because of the British financial and military backing of Chile, the British detained all of the vessels which had been payed for and were ready for delivery to Peru.
In addition, Britain then pressured other European countries to not financially help Peru, or sell any military equipment with which to defend itself.
If you are un-aware of the British financial and military connection with the War of the Pacific, you really should take time to study it from a neutral perspective, because you will NEVER be taught this part of it in the Chilean education system, and indeed it's a subject which has been totally black-listed in Chile itself, most Chileans really have no idea of the depth and scope of British involvement financially, militarily, and also as the main instigator of the War Of Nitrates.
In addition, you can easily do research on the internet, and verify that it was Chile that first invaded and attacked Bolivia, and then Chile declared war on Peru. No creadible independent source will say that Bolivia and Peru attacked Chile or invaded Chile first.
Lastly, for any Peruvian or Bolivian, it comes as a sickening and repugnant analogy to call what the Chilean soldiers did, the attrocities, the crimes against humanity, the attempts at genocide, to sometihng like "spilled milk". It is precisely THAT type of arrogance, dismissal of history, and indifference, that even after 100 years, causes the blood of any true Peruvian or Bolivian to boil, and fuels the desire to "do unto Chile, as they did unto us".
How easy it is for you to wish to "look to the future" or to "move on" when you still have that which does not belong to you. Very convinient for you no? You keep all the wealth of the land taken from Bolivia and Peru, and you keep the land itself, deny Bolivia access to the sea, and continue to occupy Peruvian territory, and then you want Bolivians to just "move-on" and "look to the future" huh?
If Chile TRUELY wishes to move forward, then very simply....un-do what you have done. Give back to Bolivia that which you took from it and the resources which you have raped from the land for the past 100 years that truely belongs to them. Give back to Peru the land you took from them after having occupied it for 100 years, and taken the resources from it.
It's just that simple. Do that, and the threat of war will be over once and for all. You wouldn't need to fear Peru, Bolivia any longer and then all 3 countries could live in peace and as brothers.
But because of your own greed and arrogance, you won't do it.
So then, continue to occupy, and continue to rape the land which should belong to others, but then also know that the time is coming, when you will have visited upon you, that which you did to others.
You might not like it, you might not want it, but because you refuse to do what is right, you will not be able to avoid it. Sooner or later the past WILL catch up with you. Don't ever forget that. I promise you, Peruvians and Bolivians will not.
# jcwong says :
15 April, 2009 [ 02:59 ]
Boy Jet!, that was very impressive. But again, chile is not that important to us in the long term. Within the next 10 to 20 years max depending on who gets elected the peruvian economy simply will surpass our southern neighbor's. The difference in population size and human and material resources is just too wide.
The mistake in the 19th century was to arrogantly ignore the old military outpost south of pisagua. That's all.
All these hateful posts and links from peruvians and others are really out of place.
jcw
# noname says :
15 April, 2009 [ 16:43 ]
I think Peru needs to do his homework on the lowest profile possible... and let the years and economical growing go by without making too much noise.... doing anything right now would be the dumbest thing to do... hopefull by the year 2020 Peru would not be needing this chilean corps runing operations in Peru's so we wont be affected in any way... I think that would be the smart thing to do.
# wassaponin says :
7 May, 2009 [ 14:53 ]
jet, Chile "invaded" Bolivia only after Bolivia violated a border treaty w/Chile and tried to unlawfully tax salitre extracts. Then, when a Chilean co. refused to pay these conjured up taxes Bolivia threatened to confiscate its property... Bolivia simply found out the hard way that that was the wrong thing to do…and in the process dragged Peru into it. So in essence, Bolivia was the aggressor thus making Peru, her ally, one as well. i don't require a creadible independent source to make up my mind for me when i have the historical facts to do so myself.
Lastly, speak for yourself about what is sickening and repugnant, thanks!
# David N says :
7 May, 2009 [ 22:33 ]
Peru has so few redeeming qualities, who would want it?
# Oliver says :
7 May, 2009 [ 23:27 ]
I say the samething about you.
# incabear63 says :
8 May, 2009 [ 07:58 ]
Wow that's rough David N.!!!!
I will go ahead then and make the very safe assumption that you have never been to Peru. While I certainly dont claim its any kind of paradise it certainly doesnt merit that level of invective. And if by some fluke you have been to Peru then you obviously had your head firmly lodged between your buttocks the whole time you were there.
At any rate, one can try to rewrite history by painting Chile as anything other than the aggressor in that unfortunate conflict if one wishes to do so but it is ultimately irrelevant. Chile's behavior during the occupation of Peru planted the seeds that continue to sprout their bitter blossom to this day. My family is from southern Peru and some of my relatives took part in the resistance; and yes there was resistance. This too however is irrelevant. Peru needs to bide its time and continue growing its economy in order to rid its people of the desperate poverty that plagues so many Peruvians. I fully suspect that when this happens at a truly national level then a good portion of the hatred and resentment towards Chile will abate somewhat. This is based on my belief that in the Peruvian character there lurks the demon of shame and self loathing knowing that with a country so much richer than Chile, they (we) have been able to do more. That's just a theory of mine. Peruvians who read this and who are honest with themselves may find a kernel of truth in it. Chile is not going anywhere and to suggest its days are numbered is just plain silly. Chileans are a tough and resourceful people who are going to be just fine for a very long time to come. To assume any other understanding of our southern neighbor is delusionary and potentially dangerous. I hope Peru continues its economic progress and that the cycle of endemic poverty is truly broken at last.
Peru must also (unfortunately) embrace its southern neighbor at arm's length. History suggests that Peru must watch Chile carefully. In my opinion the issue of the further Chilean military build up in not that important. Today's Chile is far too sophisticated to use 19th century style aggression to further its claims. The avenue of domination is to be the economic route; here is where Peru must be careful. Chile's favorite phrase seems to be "integration" when referring to its overall strategy in its relations to its northern neighbor. In Peru that must be read as domination.
Cheers
# YeiVi says :
8 May, 2009 [ 10:57 ]
To INCAA63 . Your comments were very sober and realistic .As an American military advisor , have been several times to both Chile and Peru, I respect both cultures and have a very good understanding of their strenght and weakness and as such I can attest that for logistic reasons , economic necessities and international obligations , neither country can engage in a war with the other. NOT NOW AND VERY POSSIBLE NEVER AGAIN.
I very much agree with you that Peru must continue to develop its economy and as such bring a new pride , an improved standart of living and confort to ALL PERUVIANS . However , I disagree with your concern regarding economic integration with Chile( Brazil or any other countryfor that matter)
The European Union pretty much has put to rest the concern over economic integration among different countries. Just look at Germany and France and the lesser economies from Eastern Europe than are now members of the E.U.
On the other hand you may want to look at Spain.
A country that not to long ago , under the Franco regime was very much the poor cousin of Europe and the prosperity it has achieved since joining the European Union . Global intergration , for better or worst , no matter what some may say , is here to stay .
Just look at The Chrysler and Fiat . Chrysler needs a large cash infusion and Fiat new source of technology ...... perhaps a marriage of convenience , but it might just work.
Peru needs more people LIKE YOU that can look at the GRAN PANTALLA,forget the past ,work hard and plan for a better future.
Peru deserves no less !
Finally . Peru has demostrated to the world a great deal of civic maturity by the judicial decision against the Ex-President of Peru.
That is something that you all can be proud of!
Show the same maturity and forget about Chile. Only Peruvians can do that and only Peruvians can control their future and the future is NOW!!
And with that . As is almost noon , I am going to make me a Pisco Sour.IT is hot here in Florida and un amigo from Lima sent me a case of Pisco. AAAAAHHHHH!!!! Que bueno!!!! Salud Y'all !
# Oliver says :
8 May, 2009 [ 23:06 ]
Salud Amigo!.
# YeiVi says :
9 May, 2009 [ 15:13 ]
Hay Caramba. My good friend Don Pedro C. M., Coronel Fuerzas Armadas del Peru ( he requested that his last name not be published) reminded me that as a proud son of Tacna , he sent me nothing but the best that his city makes,thus the case of the Don Cesar Pisco , which is produced in Tacna , was most welcome in my household. Consequently ,I now ask him to forgive my oversight and as such I have sent him a case of Markers Mark , Don Pedro's favorite Kentucky made whisky . Not only that , but next time I am in Tacna , Peru . I promise that he and his entire family will have a grand old time in The Restaurant San Antonio!!
# Oliver says :
10 May, 2009 [ 05:16 ]
Now your talking my language.
# incabear63 says :
10 May, 2009 [ 12:21 ]
Thanx for your thoughtful comments YeiVi. Actually though I am all for economic integration of the region. Its benefits are many fold and it is in fact here to stay. However I do believe that integration with Chile should be done carefully and it should be limited. I believe Peru would be better served if it were to grow closer ties with other countries in the region. In particular Brazil and Colombia. I know that ties with Brazil have been growing by leaps and bounds in the last few years and was very pleased to read recently that in Colombia there is a growing interest in investments in Peru. I have also read that Colombia itself is becoming poised to be the next economic growth machine. Like Peru, it is rich in resources and has a relatively well educated population. I would very much love to see closer ties between these 2 countries as my wife is Colombian and have always enjoyed my stays there. It is a beautiful country with a large hard working population. Peru and Colombia can really help each other a great deal I believe. In the case of Ecuador, I believe Peru should look there as well for further mutual economic development. Even though we have had many wars, Ecuador has never acted like a Prussian state in the midst of so many South American countries. Chile is different and that is the sad reality of it. We should absolutely have some level of integration but again in my honest opinion it should be carefully monitored. That being said...I now say...salud, cheers, to life(..la haim???...I wish I knew the hebrew!!!)....
Enjoy your Pisco my friend. In the meantime I will finish mine...and prepare another.
Cheers!!!!
# jcwong says :
11 May, 2009 [ 05:06 ]
YeiVi , that's a true and valuable friend that sends you a case of fine pisco, but
returning the favor with a case the Makers Mark, one of the best bourbons in existence, well that really speaks miles about your character.
Enjoy and cheers to all good men who love good pisco and bourbon, and women and food and all the good stuff god has sent our way.
Salud
JCW
# Manule says :
3 July, 2009 [ 16:32 ]
Look everybody, about all that mumbo-jumbo fancy military acquisitions by chilean armed forces, we as peruvians might be asking why? well,that's pretty simple, Pinochet lead the way before on how to profit illegally with military acquisitions, arms dealers, corruption, there's a nice penny waiting there, you just need the justification, aggresive peruvians or vengeful bolivians or trecherous argentines, whatever, and as long as the chilean army remains above civilian democratic power, they will enjoy impunity and generous copper laws to fill their pockets. In fact, there are much more important problems there as well as in Peru, poverty, education, health care issues to deal with but then there you have the problem of balance of power so you cannot blame Peru for trying to shorten the breach, that would be just plain stupid and against whatever history has taught us from the infamous Pacific War of 1879, so there we go, being pulled into this stupid arms race with the true clear and present danger of a trigger happy hallucinated general with unclear motivation. I personally think that military leadership in both countries have a common agenda in filling their pockets in spite of the poor and suffering people of these third world countries.
# Oliver says :
11 July, 2009 [ 03:59 ]
Military spending is necessary to fight wars and threats. You never know when the next war will be.
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 05:15 ]
PERU: No Crisis for Arms Purchases
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45349
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 05:17 ]
Why does Peru hate Chile? well let's see...first off Chile is considered the traitor of the Americas, why? because they were giving petrol to the British during the Falklands War against Argentina! yes you heard it right, where does this Anglo-Chile relationship stem? from the war of the Pacific 1879 when Chile (backed by the British) "stole" Bolivia's Coast as well as Peru's (very rich in nitrates) Tarapaca province.... Chile has never been a good neighbor... they keep buying submarines, F-16's, frigates you name it! However if war does break out Peru will not back down. And yes thank God Alan Garcia, Has now invested on weapons, And Peru has the Mig 29 Fulcrum , As well as now having invested on more Missiles. This time Peru is a lot better prepared to deal with the Chilean Cowards. Chileans have always been welcomed in Peru, in fact most of their businesses are in Peru (Fasa,Ripley,Saga,Lan,etc) but NO Peruvian business has been allowed to enter the Chilean market. Aercontinente tried and they were closed since they were capturing a big market share in Chile. Let's be serious here they owe their economy to a fascist murderer, a trail of deaths..is that something to be proud of? it's ridiculous if you ask me...THEN the final squirmish deals with the liquor called Pisco, Peruvian in origin it's a grape brandy or aguardiente, distilled from fresh grape must. Pisco is transparent or slightly yellowish, with an alcohol content of about 42 °. Pisscu means seagull in Quechua, the Inca language. It was also the name of a valley settled by descendants of the ancient Paracas culture. Here the local potters, also called piscos, crafted the large clay jars used to ferment chicha and other alcoholic beverages. The Spaniards baptized the grape brandy "pisco", as well as the port from where it was shipped, as shown on maps dating back to the late sixteenth century. Pisco varieties are defined by flavor and not aroma. There are 4 types, according to the ingredient used for their preparation: pisco acholado (distilled from several different grape varieties); pisco arom ático (aromatic); pisco mosto verde (distilled from grape must that hasn't fully fermented) and pisco puro (made from non-aromatic grapes). Peru made the mistake of not patenting it's liquor when it should've but then again the country has always been plagued by a shitty economy and even worse... shitty politicians, Peru has finally woken up, and made its claims to the WTO so that Chile does'nt get full rights to the name, I think most of us have resigned to the fact that Chileans tried to steal Pisco. However since the two can't be compared because they taste different and use different grapes, we want the world to know that there is a choice, and that the name comes from Peru and Yes Pisco is Peruvian and belongs to Peru, not Chile...it's infuriating to know that people think otherwise when the history couldnt be clearer...I think it's every Peruvian's duty to enlighten the world about their national drink.
Besides Chilean Pisco tastes like Dog Piss.
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 05:59 ]
Peru is very ready to defend itself against chilean SCUM:
Take a look at the video clips dont know why chile thinks Peru is an easy target. We have a lot more men . Besides Bolivia Cuba Argentina & Venezuela also HATE chile. chile has soooooooooooooo many enemies.
Links below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-1WaPhKbBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdNjREcB8Tw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREHqWSVTjI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0-U7k_23EY&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YkN84wXD5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcDSNk1nOzA&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2FEv0LdBoI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izCqbAx89uQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yr64PW2wTI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED45XZjNdMw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8DRHtGPiLc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFA6bMQyXps&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yIf1B-N0K8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9NebOIPDl4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSjjMb0EsCU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYxJPr677hY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyoZcAKE3CM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNhdBlOoPsY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOSETI3ais8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0lYu5qYlQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ9er4rWlnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NnU8PAYxGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNyUWGvZEBI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bh37GVAC2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_h-zLVYUFI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0D6Ro5JAA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZWNVhVlM1k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw5HSaYE3U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNEjorFsSC4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o6T-tBZo68&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5RX3jL74U&feature=related
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 06:08 ]
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 06:22 ]
Peruvian MiG-29 purchase seals service deal
PERU WILL BUY three new MiG-29 fighters from MAPO,
in addition to the 18 secondhand
models purchased last year from
Belarus, in a deal that secures service
and logistics support for the
whole Peruvian MiG-29 fleet.
Peru has reportedly had difficulty
with spares and technical support
direct from Belarus.
Russian state arms agency
Rosvoorouzhenie is concerned
with sales activity by its Belarusian
counterpart, Beltechexport, and
has recommended that Russian
defence manufacturers avoid dealing
with the agency.
Most recently, Beltechexport is
reported to have undercut Russian
offers to supply Smerch multiple
launch rocket systems to Peru in
July, according to Russian daily
newspaper Sevodnya.
Belarus is also reportedly offering
36 MiG-29s to Algeria in a deal
involving a barter of 120 Algerian
air force MiG-2 Is.
Belarus has only limited potential
to modernise and overhaul
combat aircraft at its Baranovichi
repair plant, which used to service
Soviet MiG-29s.
Reports suggest that Belarus
may then resell the MiG-2 Is to
other African states, where the type
remains in wide use.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1998/1998%20-%202637.html
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 06:25 ]
Peru Orders Russian Anti Tank Missiles
Related Stories: Americas - Other, Contracts - Awards, Middle East - Israel, Missiles - Anti-Armor, Other Corporation, Rumours, Russia, Tanks & Mechanized
Spike components
(click to view full)
Forecast International relays a report from Chile’s El Mercurio newspaper, which reports that Peru has signed $73 million in contracts for 488 Israeli and Russian anti-tank missiles to equip its armed forces, replacing or supplementing existing wire-guided Russian AT-3B/ 9M14M Sagger and German/Swiss Cobra 2000 missiles. The Cobra 2000 was a more modern variant introduced in 1968, but the type did not have a good record in combat. The 1960s-70s era AT-3 Sagger may be the most widely produced anti-tank missile of all time. It had some initial success in Vietnam and the Middle east, but basic countermeasures like suppressive fire spoil its effectiveness. Its most recent revival took place during the 2006 Lebanon War, when it found a more suitable niche with Hezbollah as a cheap, infantry-portable, close-range substitute for precision artillery.
Peru’s recent purchases are reportedly an even split. They will buy 244 of Russia’s laser-guided AT-14/ 9M133 Kornet for $25 million. Another 244 of RAFAEL’s dual-mode wire-guided or IIR fire-and-forget Spike missiles will bought for $48 million. Both missiles are considered to be effective against even modern tanks like Chile’s new Leopard 2A4s, but the Spike missiles have more advanced CLU electronics with built-in training capabilities, and also use an optional fire-and-forget mode.
AT-3, Israeli museum
(click to view full)
These purchases are part of a larger military modernization plan that plans to invest $650 million through 2011. El Mercurio also reports that Peru’s Army is exploring the option of overhauling its fleet of Russian-built T-55 tanks, which were modern in the early 1960s. New fire control systems and engines were to be installed in 2004 under Proyecto Arrascue, which appears to have re-started. Israel has considerable experience refurbishing older Soviet tanks, and there are Eastern European, Ukranian, and Russian firms who could all compete for that contract when the time comes.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/cat/ordnance-guns/missiles-antiarmor/
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 06:31 ]
Peruvian Navy Tests Otomat Missile from Aguirre Frigate
News >> Missiles & Munitions >> Development Released on Wednesday, December 17, 2008
Peruvian Navy Carries Out Record Breaking Launch On 8th December the Peruvian Navy successfully launched an Otomat missile from the Aguirre frigate, hitting a target at a range in excess of 150 kilometers. The launch, which confirmed the performance and reliability of the Otomat missile, was carried out at the Cruz de Hueso firing test range. The Peruvian Minister of Defence, Antero Flores-Araoz, was present at the launch expressed his satisfaction with the missile and the Navy's performance.
The Otomat firing formed part of the "Angamos" exercise and was intended to be particularly challenging for the Peruvian Navy. The challenge lay in the fact that it was the first launch carried out at such a distance and represented an absolute record for a South American Navy. The Otomat missile carried out its mission successfully, hitting the target as intended by the launch plan.
In addition to the Peruvian Minister of Defence, the Chief of Defence Staff, Admiral Josè Aste Daffòs, and the Army Chief of Staff, General Otto Guibovich Arteaga, were also present along with the Navy Staff. They all congratulated MBDA staff on the support they provided to the missile launch.
Fabrizio Giulianini, Managing Director of MBDA Italy and MBDA Executive Group Director Sales & Business Development stated: "With this launch in South America, the Otomat is once again at the top of its category in the anti-ship missile sector, offering interesting sales opportunities in those countries that already have this weapon system and in those that would like to have such a reliable system with proven operating capabilities in their weapon inventory".
Over 1,000 Otomat missiles have been sold to several Navies around the world. Its configuration with a turbo jet engine and its long range allow the missile to go over the radar horizon and make the Otomat the ideal anti-ship system. Furthermore, MBDA has just completed a programme which has resulted in the total digitalization of the missile. This will allow the missile to face the operating requirements of the near future in a "blue and brown waters" context as well as adding a land attack capability.
MBDA has completely updated the missile and provided it with a digital standard. This involves all the on- board electronics as well as the mission management system which will now allow multiple three-dimensional way points to be included. As a result of this development work, the new standard, the Otomat MK2 Block IV, will be in the product range for the next twenty years.
http://www.deagel.com/news/Peruvian-Navy-Tests-Otomat-Missile-from-Aguirre-Frigate_n000005455.aspx
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 06:36 ]
29th June 2008, 11:31 pm
The Peruvian Navy (MGP, per its initials in spanish) is interested in acquiring two Landing Ship Tank (LST) Class Newport from the US Navy.
Newport class tank landing ships are an improved class of American tank landing ship (LST), intended to provide substantial advantages over their World War II-era predecessors. Of the twenty completed, four were sunk as targets, four were retained as inactive reserves and the rest were sold to foreign navies.
Twenty ships of the Newport tank landing ship class were built to replace the traditional bow door design LST.
The Newport class has higher speeds and trimmer lines than the LSTs of World War II. The vessels have two huge derricks used to extend and retract a bow ramp. That 110-foot (34 m) ramp has a 75-ton capacity.
The Newport class is the first amphibious ship to be fitted with an internal side propulsion unit located below the waterline near the bow. The bow thruster allows the bow to be pushed from side to side while the stern remains nearly stationary. This class of LST also has a stern gate. It allows them to load and launch amphibious assault vehicles, and permits sterngate marriages with Landing Craft Utility (LCU) units.
According to the United States Congress, MGP has been given the good to go to receive two Newport class amphibiou ships as follows:
(a) Transfers by Grant- The President is authorized to transfer vessels to foreign recipients on a grant basis under section 516 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C. 2321j), as follows:
…
(4) PERU- To the Government of Peru, the NEWPORT class amphibious tank landing ships FRESNO (LST-1182) and RACINE (LST-1191).
LST-1182 USS Fresno, built by Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, commissioned in 1969, decommissioned in 1993, Inactive reserve since 4/08/1993.
LST-1191 USS Racine, built by Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, commissioned in 1971, decommissioned in 1993, Inactive reserve since 10/02/1993.
General characteristics
Type: Tank Landing Ship
Displacement: approx. 4,793 tons light loaded,
8,500 tons fully loaded
Length: 522 ft (159 m)
Beam: 70 ft (21 m)
Draft: 17.4 ft (5.3 m)
Propulsion: 6 ALCO diesels (3 per shaft)
16,000 shaft horsepower;
800 hp GE bow thruster.
2 Hydraulically Controlled Variable Pitch Reversible Props and 1 Variable Pitch Bow Thruster
3 ALCO/GE Generators (750 kW, 1201 A each)
Speed: 20+ knots (37+ km/h)
27 knots (50 km/h) confirmed in 1991.
Troops: Marines - approximately 400 including officers and enlisted, when embarked
Complement: Navy - 14 officers, 210 enlisted.
# incabear63 says :
11 July, 2009 [ 08:01 ]
Benavides,
As a fellow Peruvian I have to tell you...you are way off on this one. The imbalance that exists today militarily between Peru and Chile is quite probably about the same as that which existed in 1879. There is no grounds for comparison. Chile walked all over Peru in 1879 because Peru was basically unarmed. The current situation is not much different. The Mig-29's of the FAP are excellent planes but they are far too few and untested to make much of a difference. As far as the navies go, again the paralled with 1879 comes to the fore. The Chilean navy as far, far better prepared than Peru's. Chile still maintains a close relationship with England; enough said. There is just no comparison.
If we talk about ground forces, here the disparity is even greater. Peru still proudly displays its pathetically obsolete T-62's, while Chile bristles with German Leopard II tanks. True, these are not fitted to their top specifications but even in their lesser capacities they would run untouched through Peruvian armor. It would be like what American tanks did to Iraqi armor in the Gulf Wars. Trust me on this....it would a colossal rout.
We can wax patriotic with those Youtube videos till the llamas come home, but that will not change the reality of the situation. Peru is not prepared to defend itself from ANY of its neighbors, least of all Chile. I am not sure what Peru can do about it at this point, the country has been on a very good roll trying to get its economic house finally in order. A weapons race may well undo all of progress done in the last decade. We do well to bide our time and grow our resources. We do equally well to learn from Chile, and do as they did. I hope we do in time.
# yei Vi says :
11 July, 2009 [ 10:51 ]
To incabear63 . I just want to thank you for the good laught , your comment about the Llamas comming home were very much on point. I hope it was not lost to those that do not understand American slang.
Now to a more serious point.
I am not sure what is Carlos Benavides military training . I suspect NONE!
Incabear makes a very good point regarding the MIG's and there is no need to elaborate the point.
However I do want to comment the addition to the Peruvian Navy of the two landing tank landing crafts.
First of all . I assume that as opposed to just landing tanks , the Peruvian Arm Forces would need to land Infantry along with Naval and Air support.
Consequently , this would require an amount on Naval and Air power that the Peruvian government does not have and without it , any military landing is doom to failure and the two new additions would be of no benefit to the engagement.
Now . I would like very much for Carlos to take his time and study the British landing at Gallipoli . It was a failure for the simple reason that the Turkish garrison occupied the heights and there was not air support to the British , Australian , New Zealand and Indian Armies . Additionaly as the sea chanel was very narrow the British Navy was not a factor as it was dominated from the sorrounded hills by batteries emplacements controled by the Turks.
Additionally , Carlos may want to educate himself and study the Allied landing at Normandy . A place that albeit , the Germans controlled the heights. They did not have Naval nor Air support and neither the logistical means to supply the troops on the ground. Consequently , the German Army lost the engagement and in due time lost the war.
Here in America , we called those like Carlos , who have never served in the Arm Forces ,nor ever been in combat " Chicken Hawks'' or ''Arm Chairs Generals''
In a personal note , on August 30 of this year , I am proud to say that my son David , just as many of my family done in the past , will joint the Arm Forces , but in David's case , he will join as a UNITED STATES MARINE ... HURRAH! Semper Fi
YEI VI . Col. U.S. Army . Ret.
P.S. In the other hand Peru , given its terrain and current military inventory , is well suited to defend itself and fight an asymetrical war. The question is who would be the country that would want to invade Peru and what the motivation be.
To deal with the above , please refer to the Soviet experience in Afghanistan and the American experience in Irak .
Both countries , IRAN AND IRAK had less sophisticated armaments , a much lesser economies , but both were defending their home turf and to the estrategos like Carlos , I say , do make a BIG difference.
# Enrique says :
11 July, 2009 [ 14:30 ]
Yes so the chileans have F16s big deal we have mig 29 and yes chile has better weapons. But we have battle experience and better trained Soldiers. We will give chile the South American version of Vietnam. Put Mines everwhere . We also still have missiles. And chile has many many enemies in South America. Another good point Peru has a way bigger Army than chile.
Peru needs to but loads of Missiles and a better Air Defence System. Peru is ready to kick the chilean Scum we have nothing to loose , The underdog is always the more dangerouse opponent. Peru should join forces with Iran get Iranian Paramilitaries on its side just like Chavez.
Military Alliances with Venezuela Argentina Cuba & Bolivia thats the easiest way to kick chiles Ass. I am Peruvian and proud of my Country & Perus Armed Forces are Brillant Viva EL Peru Carajo!.
Thank God Peru has the Multiple rocket launcher in its Army as it will be very useful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_rocket_launcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K51_Grad
But yes we need a lot more weapons . Our HATRED however is great motivation to kill the enemy.
Peru should buy the SS-X-27 TOPOL M TYPE - STRATEGIC NUCLEAR MISSILE WARHEAD - SINGLE 550 KILOTON THERMONUCLEAR MARV RANGE - 9000 MILES WING SPAN - 6.06 FEET BODY DIA. - 6.06 FEET LENGTH - 74.5 FEET WEIGHT - 104,000 POUNDS ENGINE - 3 STAGE SOLID ROCKET GUIDANCE - INTERNAL/STELLAR SPEED - 15,000 MILES AN HOUR MOSCOW INSTITUTE OF THERMAL TECHNOLOGY (MITT) MOSCOW, RUSSIA
And
The mobile S-300
was initially developed to defend Moscow in a ring of fixed sites. In the late 1980s a mobile version of the SA-10 was completed. This version of the weapon is carried and vertically launched from a dedicated four-round capacity transporter-erector launcher vehicle. The Russian version is based on the MAZ-7910 8 x 8 truck chassis. The SA-10 mobile missile battery comprises the combined FLAP LID B radar and command guidance system mounted on a MAZ-7910 and up to 12 mobile SA-10 launch units, each equipped with four Grumble missiles. When traveling the missiles are carried in the horizontal position and rotated to the vertical position before firing at the pre-designated launch site.
With these wonderful weapons no one would mess with us.
But even without them Peru will kick chiles ass because we have no choice . Gorrilla Warfare.
But it would be much easier task if Peru had Military Alliances with Venezuela & Bolivia as well as getting Iranian Paramilitaries on our side.
Peru must do whatever it takes to win this coming war its the only way. We must reclaim Tarapaca & teach this chilean SCUM a Lesson once and for all.
Viva Edwin Donayre and Viva El PERU CARAJO.
# Enrique says :
11 July, 2009 [ 14:33 ]
Yes so the chileans have F16s big deal we have mig 29 and yes chile has better weapons. But we have battle experience and better trained Soldiers. We will give chile the South American version of Vietnam. Put Mines everwhere . We also still have missiles. And chile has many many enemies in South America. Another good point Peru has a way bigger Army than chile.
Peru needs to buy loads of Missiles and a better Air Defence System. Peru is ready to kick the chilean Scum we have nothing to loose , The underdog is always the more dangerouse opponent. Peru should join forces with Iran get Iranian Paramilitaries on its side just like Chavez.
Military Alliances with Venezuela Argentina Cuba & Bolivia thats the easiest way to kick chiles Ass. I am Peruvian and proud of my Country & Perus Armed Forces are Brillant Viva EL Peru Carajo!.
Thank God Peru has the Multiple rocket launcher in its Army as it will be very useful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_rocket_launcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K51_Grad
But yes we need a lot more weapons . Our HATRED however is great motivation to kill the enemy.
Peru should buy the SS-X-27 TOPOL M TYPE - STRATEGIC NUCLEAR MISSILE WARHEAD - SINGLE 550 KILOTON THERMONUCLEAR MARV RANGE - 9000 MILES WING SPAN - 6.06 FEET BODY DIA. - 6.06 FEET LENGTH - 74.5 FEET WEIGHT - 104,000 POUNDS ENGINE - 3 STAGE SOLID ROCKET GUIDANCE - INTERNAL/STELLAR SPEED - 15,000 MILES AN HOUR MOSCOW INSTITUTE OF THERMAL TECHNOLOGY (MITT) MOSCOW, RUSSIA
And
The mobile S-300
was initially developed to defend Moscow in a ring of fixed sites. In the late 1980s a mobile version of the SA-10 was completed. This version of the weapon is carried and vertically launched from a dedicated four-round capacity transporter-erector launcher vehicle. The Russian version is based on the MAZ-7910 8 x 8 truck chassis. The SA-10 mobile missile battery comprises the combined FLAP LID B radar and command guidance system mounted on a MAZ-7910 and up to 12 mobile SA-10 launch units, each equipped with four Grumble missiles. When traveling the missiles are carried in the horizontal position and rotated to the vertical position before firing at the pre-designated launch site.
With these wonderful weapons no one would mess with us.
But even without them Peru will kick chiles ass because we have no choice . Gorrilla Warfare.
But it would be much easier task if Peru had Military Alliances with Venezuela & Bolivia as well as getting Iranian Paramilitaries on our side.
Peru must do whatever it takes to win this coming war its the only way. We must reclaim Tarapaca & teach this chilean SCUM a Lesson once and for all.
Viva Edwin Donayre and Viva El PERU CARAJO.
# Enrique says :
11 July, 2009 [ 14:43 ]
Great Missile Upgrades for Peru
-125 SA-3 GOA
The S-125 NEVA-M (SA-3 GOA) is a surface-to-air anti-aircraft short-range system designed for destruction of aircraft, cruise missiles, assault helicopters and other air targets at ground, low and medium altitudes. The development of air weapon systems and the need for the protection of the most important objects in the territory of the country required the development of the mobile systems of rocket weapon, capable of resisting massed attacks of aviation and cruise missiles, including at the maximally low altitudes of their combat employment. Solution of the problems indicated was achieved/reached during the creation of zenith rocket systems S-75 and S-125, which were developed between 1957 and 1961 under design project leader A.A. Raspletin's management.
The S-125 NEVA-M system was developed by Lavochkin and Grushkin OKB and produced by Fakel MKB. It was first introduced into operational service in 1961. Its type and combat capabilities make it comparable with the American MIM-23 HAWK. The last and most modern version is designated as S-125 NEVA-M. The system is characterised by a very good manageability and high speed of the missiles which achieves up to M = 3.5, permitting destruction of even highly manoeuvring air targets. The system includes P-15M (SQUAT EYE) search radars, PRV-11 radar altimeter and LOW BLOW guidance radar. The system is capable of tracking 6 targets at a time and guiding two missiles at the same time. A built-in TV camera with 25 km range increases its EW resistance.
The S-125 SA-3 GOA medium altitude surface-to-air missile system uses a two-stage, solid-fuel missile built by the Isayev OKB. The S-125 missile includes a large 2.6 second burn-time solid propellant booster with rectangular fins that rotate through 90º at launch. The smaller main stage has an 18.7 second burn-time solid propellant sustainer motor, and has four aft fixed fins and four forward movable control. Following booster jettison the missile is tracked by the system's radar with guidance signals sent to an antenna on the rear fins.
US intelligence imagery at Kapustin Yar in late 1959 revealed two probable R&D sites, each of which consisted of four launch pads. A possible launcher on one of the pads held two missile-like objects about 20 feet long. US intelligence subsequntly identified more than 35 sites of this type in the USSR between late 1961 and 1964, usually near SA-1 or SA-2 sites. The initial SA-3A GOA Mod 0, deployed in 1961, includes command guidance throughout the missile's flight. The subsequent SA-3B GOA Mod 1, first deployed in 1964, incorporated an improved guidance system. The missile's ability to dive allows it to be used against surface targets and naval vessels.
The S-125 is fired from trainable launchers which are normally fixed, but can be relocated. The crew loads the missiles with the aid of a conveyor onto the ground-mounted, trainable launcher for firing, with both twin and quadruple launchers in use. A pair of missiles are carried in tandem on a modified truck or tracked vehicle. The S-125 is normally transported from battalion storage areas on modified ZIL-131 (6 x 6) or ZIL-157 (6 x 6) trucks and loaded onto the launchers. Approximately one minute is required to load the missiles onto the launch rails, but nearly an hour is required between missile launches due to missile preparation, truck transit and other reloading procedures.
Pechora-2M
The modernised surface-to-air missile system "Pechora-2M" is an effective weapon against low-flying and small-size targets. Noise-protection equipment newly introduced will provide detection, tracing, and hitting targets in conditions of intensive influence of all kinds of radio noise and counter-measures. New teleoptical drift indicator provides targeting in conditions of radio-silence in day and night time. Doubling the number of launching pads enlarges fire capability of the system. Substitution of main equipment for modem digital and solid-state one allows to prolong the system life and lower costs {or its repair. Self-testing system introduced simplifies and reduces maintenance time 8-10 otime decrease in the spare parts nomenclature streamlines the order of supplying and lowers expenditures for the system operation. Introduction of telccodc communication equipment, navigation system, and interface applied provide for possibility of receiving radar information from any sources by the missile system. The possibility of mounting the system means upon self-propelled chassis drastically increases the system mobility. Recession of the control cab at large distance from the site centre saves the detachment's life. On the base of modernised technics already available, after moderate expenditures, customers get a modem weapon.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/s-125.htm
S-300V / SA-12A GLADIATOR and SA-12B GIANT
HQ-18
The S-300V (SA-12) low-to-high Altitude, tactical surface to air missile system also has anti-ballistic missile capabilities. The HQ-18 is reportedly the designation of a Chinese copy of the Russian S300V, though the details of this program remain rather conjectural. In early 1996 Russia astounded the United States Army by marketing the Russian SA-12 surface-to-air missile system in the UAE in direct competition with the United States Army's Patriot system. Rosvooruzheniye offered the UAE the highest-quality Russian strategic air defense system, the SA-12 Gladiator, as an alternative to the Patriot at half the cost. The offer also included forgiveness of some of Russia's debt to the UAE.
The S-300V consists of:
- 9M82 SA-12b GIANT missile
- 9M83 SA-12a GLADIATOR missile
- 9A82 SA-12b GIANT TELAR
- 9A93 SA-12a GLADIATOR TELAR
- 9A84 GIANT Launcher/Loader Vehicle (LLV)
- 9A85 GLADIATOR Launcher/Loader Vehicle (LLV)
- 9S15 BILL BOARD Surveillance Radar system
- 9S19 HIGH SCREEN Sector Radar system
- 9S32 GRILL PAN Guidance Radar system
- 9S457 Command Station
The 9M83 SA-12a GLADIATOR is a dual-role anti-missile and anti-aircraft missile with a maximum range between 75 and 90 km.
The 9M82 SA-12b GIANT missile, configured primarily for the ATBM role, is a longer range system [maximum range between 100 and 200 km] with a longer fuselage with larger solid-fuel motor.
The 9A82 SA-12b GIANT and 9A93 SA-12a GLADIATOR TELAR vehicles are similar, though the 9A83-1 carries four 9M83 SA-12a GLADIATOR missiles, whereas the 9A82 carries only two 9M82 SA-12b GIANT missiles. The configuration of the vehicles command radar is also different. On the 9A83-1 the radar is mounted on a folding mast providing 360º coverage in azimuth and full hemispheric coverage in elevation. The radar on the 9M82 TELAR is mounted in a semi-fixed position over the cab, providing 90º coverage on either side in azimuth and 110º in elevation. The TELARs are not capable of autonomous engagements, requiring the support of the GRILL PAN radar.
The 9S457-1 Command Post Vehicle is the command and control vehicle for the SA-12 system, which is supported by the BILL BOARD A surveillance radar and the HIGH SCREEN sector radar. The CPV and its associated radars can detect up to 200 targets, track as many as 70 targets and designate 24 of the targets to the brigade's four GRILL PAN radar systems for engagement by the SA-12a and SA-12b TELARs.
The LLVs (9A85 GLADIATOR and 9A83 GLADIATOR) resemble normal TELARs, but with a loading crane rather than command radars. While the primary role of the LLV is to replenish the TELARs, they can also erecting and launch missiles if needed, though they are dependent on the use of command radars from neighboring TELARs.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/s-300v.htm
# Enrique says :
11 July, 2009 [ 14:46 ]
Inka Y.
I totally agree with you.
VIVA EL PERU CARAJO.
Yo tambien soy Peruano.
# Enrique says :
11 July, 2009 [ 14:53 ]
http://www.ejercito.mil.pe/
# Enrique says :
11 July, 2009 [ 17:36 ]
Peru should also have its Navy Ships & Submarines patrolling the Peruvian Seas with both planes & helicopters regularly patrolling Peruvian Airspace. Peru must start this . We cant trust chilean SCUM.
Viva EL Peru CARAJO!
Also set up Military Bases as close to border with Artillery Support & Tanks. as Well as having artillery Support & Tanks in Lima & All Peruvian Cities . Peru must be prepared for the worse. Peru must never let its guard down against chile. Peru can never trust chile. chile is truly Peru & South Americas Enemy.
Viva EL Peru Carajo.
Peru must kick out chiles embassy and no more FTA with chile . Peru must also get rid of all chilean buisness from Peru Kick them out.
Peru must deport all chilenos from Peru.
Viva Peru Carajo!
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 17:47 ]
Peru Bien Preparado para Guerra Contra Chile.
El alto grado de profesionalismo y la disciplina de la Marina de Guerra resaltó el ministro de Defensa, Ántero Flores-Aráoz, tras presenciar la exhibición de maniobras en mar y tierra desplegadas por las diversas fuerzas especializadas de la institución naval.
“La Marina comprueba que está lista para la defensa de nuestro mar de Grau, y sus efectivos se hallan preparados ante cualquier contingencia. Por supuesto, también para ayudar siempre cuando acontecen catástrofes naturales”, expresó al término de las maniobras.
Como parte de las maniobras, el titular de Defensa se trasladó en el buque de la Armada Peruana Bolognesi -una de las cuatro fragatas tipo Lupo adquiridas recientemente por el Estado a Italia-, a 20 kilómetros mar adentro, por detrás de la isla San Lorenzo.
Mientras la nave se dirigía hacia el punto de operaciones, diversos grupos de lobos marinos acompañaron la estela de espuma dejada por la fragata, además de esporádicos delfines que dejaban ver sus grisáceos lomos en medio del verdor de las aguas marinas.
La fragata navegaba a una velocidad de 22 nudos, equivalente a 50 kilómetros por hora, para encontrarse con la fragata Carbajal y los submarinos Islay y Antofagasta, prestos a simular un ataque naval.
También participaron dos corbetas que portaban misiles Exocet, de origen francés; mientras que las fragatas tenían misiles antibuque Otomat, de fabricación alemana.
El titular de Defensa se encontraba en el puente de mando de la fragata Bolognesi, acompañado por el comandante general de la Marina, almirante Carlos Gamarra Elías; y el comandante general de operaciones del Pacífico, vicealmirante Alberto Lozada Frías.
Desde esa plataforma observó la exhibición, que forma parte de los entrenamientos mensuales que realizan las diversas fuerzas navales para especializar a los cuadros marinos y mantener operativos los equipos.
Los primeros en aparecer en escena fueron los submarinos que ya se encontraban navegando desde hace dos días, gracias a su capacidad de autonomía de 50 días consecutivos, izando sus periscopios y cascos de proa.
Poco después hizo su entrada en escena una lancha de la Fuerza de Operaciones Especiales (Foes), que incursionó en el escenario a toda velocidad para rescatar a los presuntos sobrevivientes del ataque simulado.
Luego apareció un avión Antonov AN-32B, que “sembró”, desde 500 metros, a ocho efectivos y un bote Zodiac, con sus respectivos paracaídas, para caer en aguas marinas desde esa altura.
Ya culminada la operación de las naves de guerra, una de las corbetas participantes se alineó con la fragata Bolognesi, para hacer una transferencia de carga ligera, a través de sogas y en pleno movimiento de las naves.
Al finalizar esa demostración, Flores-Aráoz se trasladó desde un helicóptero Bell-206 hasta la Base Naval del Callao, y fue recibido por el jefe del Estado Mayor General de la Marina, vicealmirante Rolando Navarrete Salmón; y el inspector general de la Marina, vicealmirante Jorge de la Puente Ribeyro.
Desde ese punto, se dirigió al campo de maniobras de la base naval, donde se efectuaron demostraciones de la compañía antimotines, de dominación de inmuebles, del batallón de comandos y del grupo de reacción inmediata.
Por último, hizo un recorrido de las instalaciones de la comandancia de operaciones guardacostas, el buque insignia Almirante Grau y el Servicio Industrial de la Marina.
# c.schmidt says :
11 July, 2009 [ 17:56 ]
There we are again- warming up little conflicts- and those who make them make a lot of money- and than later on sit together- of course to chare profit- to have it nice.That on both sides more persons will might have to suffer, get more poor, get less streets, less schools- Who cares?. Myself I fiound it positive that president Obama so wide openly criticized miss Bachelet and here green light on new wappon spending.What might happen here- Well we don’t need to be worry- just hope the best- some rotten planes might arrive- and all the cash- those who might make a little bit side money will enjoy it surely later on. 21 century--------------was it not ment to be a different
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 18:00 ]
Peru truly are READY. Now we kill the chilenos HAHAHAHA.
PERU: Para las armas no hay crisis? Peru in no hurry to buy arms.
By Ángel Páez
LIMA, Jan 9 (IPS) - The global economic crisis apparently has not affected the Peruvian government’s plan to modernise the armed forces, which is to cost 650 million dollars from here to 2011.
The Peruvian army recently signed a 25 million dollar contract with Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport for 244 Kornet long-range anti-tank missiles to replace the Soviet-made Malyutka missiles acquired by Peru’s military dictatorship in the 1970s.
Defence Ministry and army sources confirmed to IPS that a 48 million dollar purchase of another 244 Spike long-range anti-tank missiles, super-modern weapons manufactured by the Israel-based Rafael Advanced Systems, has also been approved, but not signed.
But the army’s decision to purchase two different kinds of the same weapon, the Russian-made Kornet and the Israeli Spike -- the second of which costs nearly double -- drew the attention of the Comptroller General’s Office.
Although army specialists recommended the purchase of just one kind of long-range anti-tank missile, controversial former army chief General Edwin Donayre (2007-2008) insisted that the Spike missiles should be considered because Chile has them.
(Relations between Chile and Peru have been marred by a 120-year dispute dating back to the 1879-1883 War of the Pacific, in which Chile defeated Peru and Bolivia and annexed the former Peruvian province of Tarapacá and the former Bolivian province of Antofagasta.)
Donayre even invited representatives of Rafael Advanced Systems to give the joint chiefs of staff an exhibition on the Spike missiles, a privilege that no other firm enjoyed. He also posed for photos holding a Spike missile launcher on his shoulder at a fair that he organised at the army commander’s headquarters.
"We asked the military institutions for complete information on the procurement processes," sources at the Comptroller General’s Office told IPS. "When it comes to oversight and monitoring, secrets are never justified.
"Experience has shown us that where something has been kept secret, we must intervene, for prevention purposes. The recent past has made it clear to us that there is corruption in secret purchases," the sources said.
The official web site (http://www.mef.gob.pe/DGPM/snipnet.php) of the National Public Investment System (SNIP), an Economy Ministry agency that evaluates public spending projects, should provide details of state spending and a description of goods and services to be purchased or hired, but omits information on armed forces procurements.
The Defence Ministry sources argued that, at the request of the armed forces, which invoked national security, no information is provided on purchases by the army, the navy or the air force.
Ironically, to justify keeping military purchases secret, the Defence Ministry cited the Law on Transparency and Access to Public Information, which stipulates that public bodies must account for their actions, especially in the case of procurements, but has a clause that allows for exceptions based on "national security concerns."
However, the Comptroller-General’s Office has informed the Defence Ministry that what is kept secret in such cases are the details of what is being purchased, not the procurement process itself.
The regime of Alberto Fujimori (1990-2000) took advantage of state secrecy laws to conceal the purchase of more than 1.5 billion dollars in military equipment.
In the last few months, the government of Alan García has taken steps to facilitate military purchases. For example, the central bank granted the Defence Ministry a 258 million dollar loan, and SNIP authorised the purchase and contracting of nearly 452 million dollars in goods and services by the armed forces.
"The purchase of the Kornet and Spike missiles is a response to the acquisition of Leopard II tanks by Chile," army sources told IPS. "Here in Peru we don’t have a budget as big as that of our southern neighbour, to make such large purchases."
However, SNIP approved a 157 million dollar purchase to replace T-55 Soviet-made tanks with T-72M1 tanks, expected to be carried out before García’s term ends in July 2011.
According to the army sources, short and long-range anti-tank missiles are to be acquired this year, along with 10,000 assault rifles, a satellite communications system, and artillery and air defence equipment.
The navy plans to complete the purchase of eight Sea King helicopters, two used Italian frigates, and four Newport class tank landing ships, for a total of 110 million dollars.
In the case of the air force, the governments of Peru and Russia signed an agreement in November for the installation of a technical centre in Lima for the maintenance and overhaul of Russian helicopters like the Mi-8, Mi-17 and Mi-26.
This year, the process of upgrading the air force’s MiG-29 planes will begin, and the possibility of purchasing Sukhoi-27 planes will be studied. (END/2009)
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45349
Se vienen nuevos juguetes.
T 90
Kornet
Sea King
Su 27
Mig 35
Ya quiero verlas en la Joya.
De La Penne
Maestrale
Ya Quiero verlas en el Callao.
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 18:04 ]
Obama = Genocide in Peru.
Peru: Blood Flows In The Amazon
By James Petras
17 June, 2009
Countercurrents.org
In early June, Peruvian President Alan García, an ally of US President Barack Obama, ordered armored personnel carriers, helicopter gun-ships and hundreds of heavily armed troops to assault and disperse a peaceful, legal protest organized by members of Peru’s Amazonian indigenous communities protesting the entry of foreign multinational mining companies on their traditional homelands.
Dozens of Indians were killed or are missing, scores have been injured and arrested and a number of Peruvian police, held hostage by the indigenous protestors were killed in the assault. President García declared martial law in the region in order to enforce his unilateral and unconstitutional fiat granting of mining exploitation rights to foreign companies, which infringed on the integrity of traditional Amazonian indigenous communal lands.
Alan García is no stranger to government-sponsored massacres. In June 1986, he ordered the military to bomb and shell prisons in the capital holding many hundreds of political prisoners protesting prison conditions – resulting in over 400 known victims. Later obscure mass graves revealed dozens more. This notorious massacre took place while García was hosting a gathering of the so-called ‘Socialist’ International in Lima. His political party, APRA (American Popular Revolutionary Alliance) a member of the ‘International’, was embarrassed by the public display of its ‘national-socialist’ proclivities, before hundreds of European Social Democrat functionaries. Charged with misappropriation of government funds and leaving office with an inflation rate of almost 8,000% in 1990, he agreed to support Presidential candidate Alberto Fujimori in exchange for amnesty. When Fujimori imposed a dictatorship in 1992, García went into self-imposed exile in Colombia and later, France. He returned in 2001 when the statute of limitations on his corruption charges had expired and Fujimori was forced to resign amidst charges of running death squads and spying on his critics. García won the 2006 Presidential elections in a run-off against the pro-Indian nationalist candidate and former Army officer, Ollanta Humala, thanks to financial and media backing by Lima’s rightwing, ethnic European oligarchs and US overseas ‘AID’ agencies.
Back in power, García left no doubt about his political and economic agenda. In October 2007 he announced his strategy of placing foreign multi-national mining companies at the center of his economic ‘development’ program, while justifying the brutal displacement of small producers from communal lands and indigenous villages in the name of ‘modernization’.
García pushed through congressional legislation in line with the US-promoted ‘Free Trade Agreement of the Americas’ or ALCA. Peru was one of only three Latin American nations to support the US proposal. He opened Peru to the unprecedented plunder of its resources, labor, land and markets by the multinationals. In late 2007, García began to award huge tracts of traditional indigenous lands in the Amazon region for exploitation by foreign mining and energy multinationals. This was in violation of a 1969 International Labor Organization-brokered agreement obligating the Peruvian government to consult and negotiate with the indigenous inhabitants over exploitation of their lands and rivers. Under his ‘open door’ policy, the mining sector of the economy expanded rapidly and made huge profits from the record-high world commodity prices and the growing Asian (Chinese) demand for raw materials. The multinational corporations were attracted by Peru’s low corporate taxes and royalty payments and virtually free access to water and cheap government-subsidized electricity rates. The enforcement of environmental regulations was suspended in these ecologically fragile regions, leading to wide-spread contamination of the rivers, ground water, air and soil in the surrounding indigenous communities. Poisons from mining operations led to massive fish kills and rendered the water unfit for drinking. The operations decimated the tropical forests, undermining the livelihood of tens of thousands of villagers engaged in traditional artisan work and subsistence forest gathering and agricultural activities.
The profits of the mining bonanza go primarily to the overseas companies. The García regime distributes state revenues to his supporters among the financial and real estate speculators, luxury goods importers and political cronies in Lima’s enclosed upscale, heavily guarded neighborhoods and exclusive country-clubs. As the profit margins of the multinationals reached an incredible 50% and government revenues exceeded $1 billion US dollars, the indigenous communities lacked paved roads, safe water, basic health services and schools. Worse still, they experienced a rapid deterioration of their everyday lives as the influx of mining capital led to increased prices for basic food and medicine. Even the World Bank in its Annual Report for 2008 and the editors of the Financial Times of London urged the García regime to address the growing discontent and crisis among the indigenous communities. Delegations from the indigenous communities had traveled to Lima to try to establish a dialogue with the President in order to address the degradation of their lands and communities. The delegates were met with closed doors. García maintained that ‘progress and modernity come from the big investments by the multinationals…,(rather than) the poor peasants who haven’t a centavo to invest.’ He interpreted the appeals for peaceful dialogue as a sign of weakness among the indigenous inhabitants of the Amazon and increased his grants of exploitation concessions to foreign MNCs even deeper into the Amazon. He cut off virtually all possibility for dialogue and compromise with the Indian communities.
The Amazonian Indian communities responded by forming the Inter-Ethnic Association for the Development of the Peruvian Rainforest (AIDESEP). They held public protests for over 7 weeks culminating in the blocking of two transnational highways. This enraged García, who referred to the protestors as ‘savages and barbarians’ and sent police and military units to suppress the mass action. What García failed to consider was the fact that a significant proportion of indigenous men in these villages had served as rmy conscripts, who fought in the 1995 war against Ecuador while others had been trained in local self-defense community organizations. These combat veterans were not intimidated by state terror and their resistance to the initial police attacks resulted in both police and Indian casualties. García then declared ‘war on the savages’ sending a heavy military force with helicopters and armored troops with orders to ‘shoot to kill’. AIDESEP activists report over one hundred deaths among the indigenous protestors and their families: Indians were murdered in the streets, in their homes and workplaces. The remains of many victims are believed to have been dumped in the ravines and rivers.
Conclusion
The Obama regime has predictably not issued a single word of concern or protest in the face of one of the worst massacres of Peruvian civilians in this decade – perpetrated by one of America’s closest remaining allies in Latin America. García, taking his talking points from the US Ambassador, accused Venezuela and Bolivia of having instigated the Indian ‘uprising’, quoting a letter of support from Bolivia’s President Evo Morales sent to an intercontinental conference of Indian communities held in Lima in May as ‘proof’. Martial law was declared and the entire Amazon region of Peru is being militarized. Meetings are banned and family members are forbidden from searching for their missing relatives.
Throughout Latin America, all the major Indian organizations have expressed their solidarity with the Peruvian indigenous movements. Within Peru, mass social movements, trade unions and human rights groups have organized a general strike on June 11. Fearing the spread of mass protests, El Commercio, the conservative Lima daily, cautioned García to adopt some conciliatory measures to avoid a generalized urban uprising. A one-day truce was declared on June 10, but the Indian organizations refused to end their blockade of the highways unless the García Government rescinds its illegal land grant decrees.
In the meantime, a strange silence hangs over the White House. Our usually garrulous President Obama, so adept at reciting platitudes about diversity and tolerance and praising peace and justice, cannot find a single phrase in his prepared script condemning the massacre of scores of indigenous inhabitants of the Peruvian Amazon. When egregious violations of human rights are committed in Latin America by a US backed client-President following Washington’s formula of ‘free trade’, deregulation of environmental protections and hostility toward anti-imperialist countries (Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador), Obama favors complicity over condemnation.
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 18:06 ]
Peru: Blood Flows In The Amazon
http://www.countercurrents.org/petras170609.htm
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 18:20 ]
Obama said he was for Peace Diplomacy and Change . These News Videos makes one wonder.
Interesting links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StDdCPZUNTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aKTPIphDdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDkO8p4z0Wg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5h0UxeU078
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-wl7wB2jV4&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f60oM_LmT40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57hzN4Asdl4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhWg-8bafM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5y44oyuTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8f2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-KJCMWcoms&feature=related
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 18:57 ]
God Bless SCO ALLIANCE. Brillant Videos showing the counterforces against us Imperialism.
Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao5jKCiYsNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdFUcBWzCRk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOmQS7nJYa4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQvYx1Fd0jQ&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BKW7G_dIxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCaOxnW27-E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJmnX5tAJoE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xst5lihDc-U&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQHmYdd_y6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFfmUwA9zA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w24XZavzXIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKW9M9OPDM0&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ8pr0EIf78&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRyTPJBwtWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pOAGC9IiGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSpx6BfqYuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QLeYzATEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7BoC6pcf4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYZtlGXnYE4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgbUR0LBvs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzYpl1k53Eo&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85u5CGeRCdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkJmj1vz1n0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSfhQvuTwqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrB4L5ymLu4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZkuX1JlNq0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJf8uM2s7Xw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhG1pIeawQU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9pZfaDRSxE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuDJ5duUZ-Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5TzAodPn3I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP2fsFQNm-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdb6h6eCyF8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYllJ3UFs6Q
# Ojos de Cuculi says :
11 July, 2009 [ 20:39 ]
I am inspired by so much fantastic tales and as such , here is my contribution to so much warring fantasies.
'' THE RECONQUEST OF TARAPACA''
It is a cloudy day in Lima and today the country had just re elected Ollanta Humala for the third consequitive time as President of Peru. In Venezuela , Chavez recently renounced the Presindency of the country and accepted the nomination of SUPREME LEADER FOR LIFE and in BOLIVIA the Concress re nominated Evo Morales to be President until the year 2030.
It is now the year 2021 and the Bolivian gas pipe line carrying natural gas from Tiraja via Santa Cruz , Cochabamba , turning north towards Peru at the foot hills of the Andes near Oruro and entering Peruvian territory somewhere above Arequipa and from there on , down to the recently inagurated port of Hilo where supertankers will deliver the natural gas directly to San Diego , California .
These are good days for the Bolivian and Peruvian economies.
This was made possible thanks to a discovery made by researchers at M.I.T. in The United States , that enable a process of combining natural fibers extracted from vegetable waste , silicone and a carbon derivatives enabling the creation of a material light as plastic , but strong as steel , this new process is very inexpensive ,thus has enabled among other things , the pruduction of industrial pipe lines at a very low investment cost , making posible the installation of The Trans-Andina Pipe Line Co.
Flush with this new wealth and in an effort to fullfill a promise made in 2006, President Humala , secrectly orders General Andres Caceres the creation of a new plan to restore the Peruvian territory to its former border prior to the conflict with Chile during the Pacific War.
General Caceres is deeply moved by the honor and trust vested upon him and promise in the name of his Great Grand Father that he will rise to the occassion and restore the honor of his beloved country.
The plan of the General is simple , but brilliant and rellies upon the topographical reality of the Chilean territory and its economic centers .
After some conciderations Caceres decides that his objective should not simply be limited to recover Peru's former territories , but also secure Antofagasta , previously part of Bolivia and the only access of this country to the sea. His motivation is not to help Bolivia , but to prevent Chile to enjoy the revenues produce from the copper mining of the region of Antofagasta and Calama !
The first part of the plan is to secrectly send Special Forces troops disguised farmers , tourist , students , researchers and drug trafficers along the Bolivian Andes near the Chilean border above San Pedro de Atacama . These troops for obvious reasons will travel unarmed and will wait for supplies to be deliver as general commodities at the proper time.
Once the Special Forces and the equipment is in place .The second part of the plan is to send Peruvian paratroopers to capture the airport of Calama and the break out of the Special Forces hiding in Bolivia to cut off the re-supply from the South along the Pan America highway .This can be accomplished by securing the passes along the many quebradas in the lower Sierras , making difficult for the Chileans to freely operate within its territory in the attempt to support the Chilean troops near Calama.
A basic principle of an Asymetrical war is the ability of a small force to create havoc in the normal movement of troops and the re-supply of the same.
While all of this is taking place in the interior . A combined Special Force composed of troops landing from submarines , air gliders and paratroopers will occupied the the ports and airports of Arica , Iquique and Antofagasta .
Once this is accomplished and it should be completed within 48 hours .
Regular troops will break out from Arequipa from the heights in the direction of Iquique and Antofagasta .Chile has troop emplacements in and around Putre , so a part of the Arequipa detachment will have to attack this concentration of troops. While from Tacna along the coast a direct attack will be directed towards Arica and from there escalate in the direction of Putre encircling the Chilean troops in and around Putre.
Needles to say that the key to the success of the operation is a complete and total surprise of the Chilean forces and the destrucion in place of its Air force . For reason that are not clearly understood the Chilean Air Force has a contingency of F 16 in Iquique and Antofagasta , the problem with this is that these two airports are right next to the Pacific Ocean making these two bases succestible to COMMNADO ATTACKS from the sea .
The third part of the plan , is for the amphibious landing of Peruvian troops along the coast of Pisagua and Iquique a fast break out to the interior , engaging the Chileans at Baquedano and joining with the rest of the Peruvian forces procedent from Putre and Arica.
This is a daring plan and it has a high degree of success , but does require a great deal of training and coordination.
Given certain factsin the gorund , it is very likely that the Peruvian could pull it off and force the Chilean to a war that given its geographic situation and the state of military realities could be difficult for the Chileans to sustain ...... to be continue
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 20:59 ]
FCK chile
FCK europe
FCK usa
FCK canada
FCK imperialism
VIVA SOCIALISMO
VIVA COMMUNISMO
VIVA NACIONALISMO
VIVA SOUTH AMERICA ALLIANCE WITH IRAN RUSSIA & CHINA.
VIVA OLLANTA HUMALA
VIVA HUGO CHAVEZ
VIVA EVO MORALES
VIVA OSCAR ARIAS
VIVA DANIEL ORTEGA
VIVA FIDEL CASTRO
VIVA CHE GUEVARRA
VIVA RAUL CASTRO
VIVA SCO ALLIANCE
EL PUEBLO UNIDO JAMAS SERA VENCIDO
VIVA EL PERU CARAJO !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED45XZjNdMw
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 21:02 ]
Why does Peru hate Chile? well let's see...first off Chile is considered the traitor of the Americas, why? because they were giving petrol to the British during the Falklands War against Argentina! yes you heard it right, where does this Anglo-Chile relationship stem? from the war of the Pacific 1879 when Chile (backed by the British) "stole" Bolivia's Coast as well as Peru's (very rich in nitrates) Tarapaca province.... Chile has never been a good neighbor... they keep buying submarines, F-16's, frigates you name it! However if war does break out Peru will not back down. And yes thank God Alan Garcia, Has now invested on weapons, And Peru has the Mig 29 Fulcrum , As well as now having invested on more Missiles. This time Peru is a lot better prepared to deal with the Chilean Cowards. Chileans have always been welcomed in Peru, in fact most of their businesses are in Peru (Fasa,Ripley,Saga,Lan,etc) but NO Peruvian business has been allowed to enter the Chilean market. Aercontinente tried and they were closed since they were capturing a big market share in Chile. Let's be serious here they owe their economy to a fascist murderer, a trail of deaths..is that something to be proud of? it's ridiculous if you ask me...THEN the final squirmish deals with the liquor called Pisco, Peruvian in origin it's a grape brandy or aguardiente, distilled from fresh grape must. Pisco is transparent or slightly yellowish, with an alcohol content of about 42 °. Pisscu means seagull in Quechua, the Inca language. It was also the name of a valley settled by descendants of the ancient Paracas culture. Here the local potters, also called piscos, crafted the large clay jars used to ferment chicha and other alcoholic beverages. The Spaniards baptized the grape brandy "pisco", as well as the port from where it was shipped, as shown on maps dating back to the late sixteenth century. Pisco varieties are defined by flavor and not aroma. There are 4 types, according to the ingredient used for their preparation: pisco acholado (distilled from several different grape varieties); pisco arom ático (aromatic); pisco mosto verde (distilled from grape must that hasn't fully fermented) and pisco puro (made from non-aromatic grapes). Peru made the mistake of not patenting it's liquor when it should've but then again the country has always been plagued by a shitty economy and even worse... shitty politicians, Peru has finally woken up, and made its claims to the WTO so that Chile does'nt get full rights to the name, I think most of us have resigned to the fact that Chileans tried to steal Pisco. However since the two can't be compared because they taste different and use different grapes, we want the world to know that there is a choice, and that the name comes from Peru and Yes Pisco is Peruvian and belongs to Peru, not Chile...it's infuriating to know that people think otherwise when the history couldnt be clearer...I think it's every Peruvian's duty to enlighten the world about their national drink.
Besides Chilean Pisco tastes like Dog Piss.
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 21:22 ]
Peru has this beautiful SS-1 `Scud' Missile.
Read article below:
SS-1 `Scud' (R-11/8K11, R-11FM (SS-N-1B) and R-17/8K14)
SS-1 `Scud' (R-11/8K11, R-11FM (SS-N-1B) and R-17/8K14)
Type
Short-range, road mobile, liquid propellant, single warhead ballistic missiles.
Development
The initial design of the `Scud' was made in Russia by the Korolyev Design Bureau (OKB-1), which started work shortly after the Second World War using German V2 designs and some of the engineers and scientists from the German weapons programme. The SS-1B `Scud A' entered service around 1955, and was known as the R-11 (8K11) missile by the Russians. An improved version, known as R-17 (8K14) and by NATO as the SS-1C `Scud B', entered service in 1962. Initially, this version was carried on the same tracked vehicle as its predecessor, but by 1965 the four axle eight wheeled Transporter-Erector-Launcher (TEL) vehicle MAZ 543 P had been introduced and was to become the standard TEL for the `Scud' system. Several different warheads were developed for the `Scud B' missiles including nuclear, chemical and conventional High Explosive (HE). The plan to replace the series with the SS-23 was abandoned as a result of the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) agreement to ban the SS-23 `Spider'.
There are reports that the Russians designed two further `Scud' variants, known as the SS-1D `Scud C' and SS-1E `Scud D'. The `Scud C' is believed to have had a range increased to 550 km, but with a reduced warhead weighing 600 kg that separated from the motor and fuel tank assembly following motor burnout. This was thought to have increased stability and improved accuracy. The `Scud D' design is believed to have been an attempt to improve the accuracy of the system to around 50 m Circular Error of Probability (CEP), using digital scene matching, with a TV camera to refine the aim point as the missile approaches the target area. Tests of a prototype `Scud D' were first carried out in 1979, with a redesigned warhead section, but a successful design was not completed until 1989. There are further unconfirmed reports that the Russians designed a fifth variant with a range of 900 km, but this did not enter production. A submarine-launched version, known as R-11FM (SS-N-1B `Scud'), was developed from 1950 as a joint programme by the Korolyev and Makeyev design bureau. Land trials started in 1955 and the first submarine launch was made in September 1955, with a range of 250 km. The missile became operational as the D-1 SLBM system in 1959 on a `Golf' class submarine.
Description
The first of the `Scud' family of missiles the SS-1B `Scud A' (R-11) was 10.7 m long, had a body diameter of 0.88 m and a launch weight of 4,400 kg. The missile used kerosene and nitric acid for propellant, pressurised by air, this resulted in a missile with a range of about 180 km but with a CEP of around 3 km. The `Scud A', was carried on a tracked vehicle, derived from the JS 2 tank chassis, which served as a TEL platform for the missile. The warhead was nuclear, and is believed to have had a yield in the 50 kT range.
The `Scud B' (R-17) was a considerable improvement over the earlier A version. The missile is 11.25 m long, has a body diameter of 0.88 m and a launch weight of 5,900 kg. The propellants were changed, from `Scud A', to Unsymmetrical Dimethyl Hydrazine (UDMH) and Inhibited Red Fuming Nitric Acid (IRFNA), which were fed to the combustion chamber by fuel pumps and gave a more consistent thrust.The total propellant weight at launch was around 3,130 kg, and the structural weight (less warhead bay) was 1,785 kg. These improvements increased the missile range to 300 km and reduced the CEP to around 450 m. Guidance is by a rudimentary inertial system using three gyroscopes, which give control signals to four graphite vanes in the motor exhaust to adjust the flight path of the missile during the climb following launch. The control vanes are only operative for the period of motor burn, the first 60 seconds or so of flight. Several different warheads were developed for the `Scud B' missiles, including nuclear, chemical and conventional high explosive. The warhead bay of the `Scud B' is 2.87 m long forming the nose section of the missile, and weighs 985 kg. It is believed that the first Russian design for `Scud B' was for a nuclear warhead with a yield of 50 kT, but this was later replaced with a selectable yield warhead covering from 5 to 70 kT. A diagram of a chemical warhead for the `Scud B' shows a nose-mounted fuze with a high-explosive bursting charge to open the warhead and allow the resulting air flow to disperse the 555 kg of viscous VX chemical agent into a dense aerosol cloud. Russian documents suggest that a number of different conventional high explosive warheads were developed, including blast/fragmentation, earth penetration, fuel-air explosive and submunitions. The HE blast fragmentation warhead contains 545 kg of HE. For the submunitions there were again several options, including: fragmentation; armour-piercing; runway penetrators; smoke; mines or incendiary. The submunitions warheads would all have been initiated by proximity fuzes, to create an airburst to deploy the submunitions over a wide area. It is believed that 40 runway penetrator submunitions were carried, each penetrator weighing 12 kg and with 3 kg of HE Fragmentation submunitions are believed to have numbered about 100 per warhead, each weighing 5 kg and containing 1.2 kg of HE, with a damage radius between 160 and 250 m.
The `Scud B' missile is carried on an eight wheeled MAZ 543 P TEL vehicle (9P117M), the missile is raised to the vertical position at the back of the TEL before launch. The TEL has a length of 13.36 m, a width of 3.02 m and weighs 37,400 kg when loaded with a missile. The TEL can carry three crew, but it is believed that five men are required in the launcher crew. The vehicle has built-in test equipment, can aim the missile, and can fire autonomously if required. However, the target selection and firing is usually carried out from a separate command and control vehicle. The MAZ 543 vehicle has a D-12 diesel engine rated at 525 hp, with four driven axles, and a separate 10 kW electric generator for the missile operations. Two hydraulic pumps power the cradle that raises the missile to the vertical, which takes about 4 minutes. The TEL can be adjusted to carry different missiles, by altering the roof assemblies and the cradle. Iraq used the MAZ 543 to carry the larger Al Hussein missile. A typical `Scud B' launch sequence takes about 1 hour. The TEL vehicle has an unrefuelled range of 650 km on hard roads and a maximum road speed of 55 km/h. After launch, the TEL moves to a new position to avoid a counterattack, and is reloaded from a towed resupply trailer.
`Scud C' is the same size as the `Scud B' but is believed to have had the range increased to 550 km, achieved by reducing the warhead to 600 kg and increasing the fuel and oxidant. The weight of 'Scud C' is believed to be 6,500 kg. The warhead separates from the motor and fuel tank assembly following motor burnout; this would have reduced the instability of the total missile on re-entry to the lower atmosphere, and should have improved the accuracy.
The `Scud D' design is believed to have been a further attempt to improve the accuracy of the system to around 50 m CEP, using a digital scene matching technique with a TV camera in the nose of a modified warhead section. The warhead separated from the missile body and had a stabilisation and guidance computer, operating four paddle type control fins similar to those used on the SS-21 `Scarab' missile. The separating warhead section was about 4 m long and had a body diameter about 0.65 m. The overall missile length was increased to 12.29 m and the launch weight to 6,500 kg. The `Scud D' is thought to have the same 300 km range as the `Scud B'.
The naval submarine-launched version of the `Scud A', known as R-11FM or SS-N-1B `Scud', had a length of 10.34 m, a diameter of 0.88 m, and a launch weight of 5,465 kg. The empty weight was 1,677 kg, the warhead bay weighed 985 kg and around 2,805 of propellant was carried. The maximum range was 250 km.
Operational Status
The `Scud A' entered service around 1955 and was replaced by the SS-1C `Scud B' missile starting in 1962. By 1965, `Scud B' was operational in many countries throughout Europe and the Middle East. `Scud B' missiles were used by Egypt in 1973 against Israel, but only a small number were fired. A large number, in excess of 600, `Scud' and `Scud variants' were fired by both Iraq and Iran during their eight years war, and over 2,000 are believed to have been used in Afghanistan. A small number of `Scud' missiles were used in the civil war in Yemen in 1994.
There are unconfirmed reports that several `Scud C' missiles were fired in Afghanistan in 1989 to 1990. More than 700 `Scud' launchers were deployed by the former Warsaw Pact nations, each launcher carried one missile and had three reloads available. However, since the changes within Eastern Europe it is now unclear what has happened to all these weapons but it is believed that the SS-1 `Scud' missiles have been withdrawn from service in Russia and destroyed in Belarus, Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland. `Scud B' missiles have been exported to Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Egypt, Georgia, Hungary, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Libya, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Syria, UAE, Ukraine, Vietnam and Yemen. Unconfirmed reports in 1995 and 1996 have suggested that `Scud B' missiles may have been purchased by Armenia, Ecuador, Pakistan, Peru and Democratic Republic of the Congo; but these might have been built in the former Soviet Union or elsewhere. Around 30 'Scud B' missiles and four TELs were purchased by the USA in 1995, and these have been converted into targets by Lockheed Martin with the first two missiles launched in 1997. It is estimated that several thousand `Scud' missiles were built in Russia, maybe as many as 7,000, and reports indicate that `Scud B' missiles and improvements have been manufactured in Egypt, Iran, Iraq and North Korea. Although there was a great deal of media coverage on the use of `Scuds' by Iraq during the Gulf War in 1991, the missiles used were largely the Iraqis' own improved `Scuds', the Al Hussein. It was reported that 32 'Scud C' missiles and eight TELs were sold to Armenia between 1993 and 1996. The naval `Scud A' SLBM (R-11FM) entered service in 1959 on `Golf' class submarines, but was taken out of service in 1968 and replaced by longer range systems (SS-N-4 and SS-N-5 `Sark'). It is believed that a single `Golf' class submarine together with `Scud A' R-11FM missiles were sold to China in 1959, and that the Chinese began to reverse engineer the design but abandoned this in 1961. There are no confirmed reports that Russia produced either `Scud C' or `Scud D' designs or that these missiles ever entered service.
Specifications
| R-11 `Scud A' | R-17 `Scud B' | `Scud C' | `Scud D' |
Length | 10.7 m | 11.25 m | 11.25 m | 12.29 m |
Body | 0.88 m | 0.88 m | 0.88 m | 0.88 m |
diameter |
|
|
|
|
Launch | 4,400 kg | 5,900 kg | 6,400 kg | 6,500 kg |
weight |
|
|
|
|
Payload | Single warhead; | Single warhead; | Single warhead; | Single warhead; |
| 950 kg | 985 kg | 600 kg | 985 kg |
Warheads | Nuclear 50 kT | Conventional HE, | Conventional HE | Conventional HE, |
|
| chemical or |
| chemical or |
|
| nuclear 5-70 kT |
| nuclear |
Guidance | Inertial | Inertial | Inertial | Inertial with digital |
|
|
|
| scene matching |
Propulsion | Single stage | Single stage liquid | Single stage liquid | Single stage |
| liquid |
|
| liquid |
Range | 180 km | 300 km | 550 km | 300 km |
Accuracy | 3,000 m CEP | 450 m CEP | 700 m CEP | 50 m CEP |
Contractor
The SS-1 Scud family was designed by the Korolyev Design Bureau (OKB-1) .
 |
| A MAZ 543 TEL vehicle with a `Scud B' missile raised for launch (TASS) (1997) |
 |
| Base of the `Scud B' missile showing the fixed fins and the four moving graphite vanes used to steer the missile (1991) |
 |
| This cutaway rear end `Scud B' shows from left to right; the fuel tank, the fuel pump and compressed air reservoirs, the motor combustion chamber and the rear control valves. The traditional aircraft type construction in both body and tailfins can be seen well in this picture (1991) |
 |
| A `Scud B' battery command and control vehicle, with a missile raised to the launch position located behind (1995) |
 |
| A line diagram of the SS-1C Scud B missile (1995) |
 |
| A MAZ 543 `Scud B' Transporter-Erector-Launcher (TEL) vehicle (Bob Fleming) 1997 (1997) |
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 21:26 ]
SS-1C 'Scud B'
| Country: | Russian Federation |
|---|
| Alternate Name: | R-17 |
|---|
| Class: | SRBM |
|---|
| Length: | 11.25 m |
|---|
| Diameter: | 0.88 m |
|---|
| Launch Weight: | 5900 kg |
|---|
| Payload: | Single warhead, 985 kg |
|---|
| Warhead: | Nuclear 5-70 kT, HE, chemical |
|---|
| Propulsion: | Single-stage liquid |
|---|
| Range: | 300 km |
|---|
| Status: | Operational |
|---|
| In Service: | 1962 |
|---|
Details
Russian Designation: R-17
While the names of most ballistic missiles are obscure, the ‘Scud’ has become a household name. The SS-1A ‘Scunner’ was designed a short time after the end of World War II by captured German scientists and is based upon the Nazi V-2 rocket which was used to attack London in the Second World War. In essence, the Scud is the AK-47 of the missile world: reliable, simple, and ubiquitous. The missile was produced in huge quantities and not even the Russians know exactly how many they built, let alone the number copied by foreign companies.
Although Scuds carry conventional explosives, the Scud was originally developed for the purpose of carrying a nuclear warhead. The SS-1B ‘Scud A’ entered into service in 1955 and was equipped with a 50 kT nuclear warhead as a short-range nuclear weapon to attack Western Europe. At the same time, the Soviets also developed a high explosive (HE) warhead for export to other communist nations that the Soviet Union was leery of giving nuclear strike capabilities.
Yet despite its original role as a nuclear weapon, the ‘Scud B’ is a tactical system typically used to bombard enemy positions and cities. The accuracy of the system is far too low for deployment against military units, specifically due to the lack of submunitions. The system is only useful if deployed against large targets such as manufacturing complexes, cities, or troop staging areas. In the case of the Soviets, the ‘Scud B’ was equipped with nuclear warheads to enable tactical deployment against military units in the case of an escalating conflict. The placement on a Transporter-Erector-Launcher (TEL) vehicle allows for mobility and for deployment on the battlefield.
The ‘Scud B’ is 11.25 m long, 0.88 m in diameter, and has a launch weight of 5,900 kg. It has a range of 300 km (186 miles) with accuracy of 450 m CEP. Several different warheads were developed for the ‘Scud B’ missiles including nuclear yields between 5 and 70 kT, chemical agents, and conventional high explosive. A typical ‘Scud B’ takes approximately one hour to finish a single launch sequence. It uses an inertial guidance system and a single-stage liquid propellant engine.
The SS-1C ‘Scud B’ was deployed in 1962. Though the system is obsolete and has been replaced by new designs in Russia, it is still one of the most common and widely deployed missile systems in the world. By 1965, the new ‘Scud B’ missile was operational in many European and Middle Eastern counties. In 1973, Egypt fired a small number of the ‘Scud B’ missiles against Israel. Over 600 ‘Scud B’ and North Korean ‘Scud B’ variants were fired by Iran and Iraq between 1980 and 1988. Over 2,000 ‘Scud B,’ and possibly a small number of ‘Scud C’ missiles, are thought to have been used in Afghanistan.
During the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Iraq deployed its own improved variant of the ‘Scud B,’ the Al Hussein. There were also a small number of ‘Scud’ missiles used in the 1994 civil war in Yemen and by Russia in Chechnya in 1996. A Russian report suggests that there were four ‘Scud B’ TEL and approximately 100 missiles in Afghanistan, some with the Taliban and some with Massoud’s forces, and could have been possibly passed to other various terrorist organizations. In 1998, Ukraine was reported to have three brigades with ‘Scud B’ missiles and a total of 55 missiles in service. In 1999, Libya paraded some 20 refurbished ‘Scud B’ TEL vehicles with missiles. It is thought that this was done with the assistance from North Korea.
‘Scud B’ missiles have been exported to: Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Egypt, Georgia, Hungary, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Libya, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Syria, UAE, Ukraine, Vietnam, and Yemen. Unconfirmed reports between 1996 and 2000 have suggested that ‘Scud B’ missiles have been purchased by Armenia, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ecuador, Pakistan, Peru, and the Sudan. These missiles may have been built in the former Soviet Union. It has been reported that as many as 7,000 ‘Scud’ missiles may have been built in Russia and that ‘Scud B’ missiles and improved variants have been built in Egypt, Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Syria. Consequently, it is difficult to identify the source and quantity of missile supplies.(1)
http://www.missilethreat.com/missilesoftheworld/id.114/missile_detail.asp
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 22:00 ]
Missiles Peru has in its arsenal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJIejxvdslc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckVjkvV4Aak&feature=related
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet
# Carlos Benavides says :
11 July, 2009 [ 22:29 ]
Peruvian Navy Army Helicopters Missiles etc :
VIVA EL PERU CARAJO !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peruvian_Navy_ships
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NnU8PAYxGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuXu8h0VKhM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2R0dUe0Nv4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rd9jy2w7EE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYkPiduPG08&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAtcgww9eVs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-hkk2ioGx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1a8CmWqO24&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YoRFQAnDSs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2FEv0LdBoI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vCJMDjnBsY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrRsbSWKyGg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWC9pQnR_Gs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTXn3v7zTQ&feature=related
# Inca Yupanqui says :
13 July, 2009 [ 07:23 ]
If you have not already learned from other wars, military might alone will not subdue the will of the people.
Chilean troops will not last in today's Peru. The Peruvian citizens are too proud of their land to be bullied by foreign goose-stepping Prussian wannabees.
Chile might have superior military might, but that is not enough to conquer a much larger Peruvian population.
We peruvians are proud of our land....... and if our military cannot defend us, WE THE PEOPLE will defy any chilean agression with civilian resistance.... to the last breath.
VIVA EL PERU CARAJOOOO!!!!!!!
# Miriam Lang says :
14 July, 2009 [ 10:10 ]
I see, paranoia is strong with some peruvian people these days...
Chile won't invade Peru, there is no plausible reason to do this.
People in Chile are very concerned about things that really matter, like world financial crisis, the ongoing plans for the gas ports to import from Trinidad and other parts of the world (Quintero). This has been completed in July and assures Chile some electrical independence.
Even qualification for the world next football World Cup in South Africa is a theme, but no "invasions" to any neighbours, this is so silly!
Guys, get a life... ;D
# incabear63 says :
14 July, 2009 [ 10:31 ]
OUCH!!!
As a Peruvian I have to admit that Miriam has a point. I dont trust Chile as much as the next Peruvian but this talk of war is silly. Chile is continuing its tradition of being well armed as part of its historically ongoing policy of being the dominant power in the western pacific. For Chile to "invade" militarily would be totally counter productive to its own interests. The dont need tanks to "conquer" Peru. With a Peruvian government all too willing to offer up the nation's buttocks for economic probing from the south, why even consider military force. Its just plain silly. Chile has proved itself too crafty over its history.
Ahh my Peru. As they say...."so far from God and so close to Chile". (I know I am paraphrasing and I probably screwed up the original quote which I believe relates to Mexico and the U.S., but you get the point).
Cheers!!!
# YEIVI says :
14 July, 2009 [ 11:02 ]
To incabear63 : You are correct , it was reportedey said by Porfirio Diaz of Maxico ......... And another thing why hasn't anybody commented about the retaking of Tarapaca?
# wassaponin says :
14 July, 2009 [ 12:57 ]
LOL! for the same reason no one has commented on unicorns or leprechauns LOL
# Carlos Benavides says :
14 July, 2009 [ 14:13 ]
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# Miriam Lang says :
15 July, 2009 [ 03:55 ]
Hi Incabear,
Even in a hypothetical bellicose scenario like the ones mentioned above, I also strongly doubt, Chile would be able to sustain an invasion with about 50 F-16 and 400 tanks and the other stuff arround. Even if this is a comparatively high amount for the region, it's very naive to think, this would be enough. Just look how the US is struggling to invade and OCCUPY a force in some countries in the middle east, which are far more backwards than our nations. And the US have a yearly military spenditure of 800 billion! (vs "ridiculous" 5 billion in Chile).
And as you pointed correctly, Chile has considerable economic interests in Peru, an aggression would be like hurting itself and totally counterproductive.
I think, such spread of fear is an incentive for people (like Carlos), who want to maintain a tense relation, probably due to any personal gains (politically and economically) or suffered indoctrinations in their childhood. And this counts for both sides.
Cheers
# Carlos Benavides says :
15 July, 2009 [ 04:34 ]
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# Carlos Benavides says :
15 July, 2009 [ 04:57 ]
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# EL CUCU says :
15 July, 2009 [ 07:17 ]
AMEN . SISTER.
BUT JUST TO BE A JERK . I DO WANT , FOR OJOS DE CUCULI TO CONTINUE TO WRITE ABOUT THE INVASION OF CHILE BY THE ARM FORCES OF PERU.
# Chilie Willy says :
15 July, 2009 [ 07:17 ]
Chile all ready owns Peru, so no need to waste money in millatary conflict.
Shows what hard work in stead of Crying like babys will get you.
There are a multatude of Peruvians living in Chile,,, wonder why???
# Inka Yupanqui says :
15 July, 2009 [ 11:14 ]
To Chilie Willy:
You are mistaken. Chile does NOT own Peru.
Having business investments in a country does not mean you ¨own¨ a country.
For your information schmuck, Peru has MANY foreign investors from Europe, Asia, North America, Brazil.
Spain alone has more investments in Peru than Chile.
You are talking nonsense and you probably are an ignorant child with emotional scars.
if Chile ¨owned¨ Peru , (like this poor man Willy claims), there would be no issues in the Hague, or the rising peruvian tycoon competition, which is begining to show peruvians that they themselves will eventually take over their own markets.
So, definately Chile does not own another country.
Posees estudios?
# Chilie Willy says :
15 July, 2009 [ 14:44 ]
Sorry Buckarooo
Chile does Own Peru
Cause I sold to them last week for 15 $usd and a case of 1997 castilla de diablo wine. Did i charge too much?
All leagal like with the property title hen scratched on a dirty napkin.
I still have a few choice bridges for sale if you are in the market.
# Oliver says :
15 July, 2009 [ 23:52 ]
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# Buy Peruvian says :
15 July, 2009 [ 23:56 ]
The best thing we can do guys is to buy Peruvian Goods in Peruvian shops.
# Carlos Benavides says :
16 July, 2009 [ 04:15 ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-1WaPhKbBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED45XZjNdMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8DRHtGPiLc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-7eBF2TslU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVnJlbQcwk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN12yoKxcx0&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtw6bYStp6E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXcWyiDyV0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HiQzfX5NLE&feature=related
Peru will DESTROY chile.
VIVA EL PERU CARAJO!
# EisenhowerWWII says :
16 July, 2009 [ 09:20 ]
Willy Chillie is wrong. Chile does not own Peru. The reason why he writes this is because he is a poor Chilean who does not profit from any of his countries investments, so therefore uses this reverse psychology in order to make himself feel better.
Spain has alot more money invested in Peru, therefore Spain would own Peru before Chile would. And even Spain does not own it.
Wishful thinking.
# Chilie Willy says :
16 July, 2009 [ 15:36 ]
I like Ike
dude
read the 28 boxes of the TLC or FTA with EEUU and you will see who really owns Peru now...
dont worry none of the congress read it eather..
# incabear63 says :
16 July, 2009 [ 15:50 ]
By that standard Chilie you should be asking who owns Chile??? Unless you are a retrograde protectionist...since when are free trade agreements national give aways?? All our countries (unfortunately for the rest of us that includes Chile) need such agreements to stimulate economic development. Will there be abuses?? you bet. Are these treaties anywhere near perfect?? hardly. Yet I am am one who believes in free trade as if not the only way out of economic misery at least a very good option.
Chile has benefited greatly from such agreements. What are you afraid of ??? Does the notion of an economically powerful Peru make you go pee pee in the night?? If it doesn't...it should.
# Carlos Benavides says :
16 July, 2009 [ 17:13 ]
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# Chilie Willy says :
16 July, 2009 [ 17:14 ]
the incabore is correct they own chile tooo since a long timeago
free trade is cool when it is somewhat equal and when its just trade
# Carlos Benavides says :
16 July, 2009 [ 17:31 ]
Why does Peru hate Chile? well let's see...first off Chile is considered the traitor of the Americas, why? because they were giving petrol to the British during the Falklands War against Argentina! yes you heard it right, where does this Anglo-Chile relationship stem? from the war of the Pacific 1879 when Chile (backed by the British) "stole" Bolivia's Coast as well as Peru's (very rich in nitrates) Tarapaca province.... Chile has never been a good neighbor... they keep buying submarines, F-16's, frigates you name it! However if war does break out Peru will not back down. And yes thank God Alan Garcia, Has now invested on weapons, And Peru has the Mig 29 Fulcrum , As well as now having invested on more Missiles. This time Peru is a lot better prepared to deal with the Chilean Cowards. Chileans have always been welcomed in Peru, in fact most of their businesses are in Peru (Fasa,Ripley,Saga,Lan,etc) but NO Peruvian business has been allowed to enter the Chilean market. Aercontinente tried and they were closed since they were capturing a big market share in Chile. Let's be serious here they owe their economy to a fascist murderer, a trail of deaths..is that something to be proud of? it's ridiculous if you ask me...THEN the final squirmish deals with the liquor called Pisco, Peruvian in origin it's a grape brandy or aguardiente, distilled from fresh grape must. Pisco is transparent or slightly yellowish, with an alcohol content of about 42 °. Pisscu means seagull in Quechua, the Inca language. It was also the name of a valley settled by descendants of the ancient Paracas culture. Here the local potters, also called piscos, crafted the large clay jars used to ferment chicha and other alcoholic beverages. The Spaniards baptized the grape brandy "pisco", as well as the port from where it was shipped, as shown on maps dating back to the late sixteenth century. Pisco varieties are defined by flavor and not aroma. There are 4 types, according to the ingredient used for their preparation: pisco acholado (distilled from several different grape varieties); pisco arom ático (aromatic); pisco mosto verde (distilled from grape must that hasn't fully fermented) and pisco puro (made from non-aromatic grapes). Peru made the mistake of not patenting it's liquor when it should've but then again the country has always been plagued by a shitty economy and even worse... shitty politicians, Peru has finally woken up, and made its claims to the WTO so that Chile does'nt get full rights to the name, I think most of us have resigned to the fact that Chileans tried to steal Pisco. However since the two can't be compared because they taste different and use different grapes, we want the world to know that there is a choice, and that the name comes from Peru and Yes Pisco is Peruvian and belongs to Peru, not Chile...it's infuriating to know that people think otherwise when the history couldnt be clearer...I think it's every Peruvian's duty to enlighten the world about their national drink.
Besides Chilean Pisco tastes like Dog Piss.
# Carlos Benavides says :
16 July, 2009 [ 17:34 ]
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# Carlos Benavidasshole says :
16 July, 2009 [ 17:40 ]
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# incabear63 says :
16 July, 2009 [ 17:41 ]
Yeah...I used to be a socialist too....then I pulled my head out of my butt. Or at least I grew up. Humala would be an unmitigated disaster for Peru, on par with Velasco Alvarado of the 1968 revolution. Benavides, I have no idea how old you are but do yourself a favor and read up on this general's tenure and what it did to the land you profess to love so much. Peru is just now coming out of the dark ages that "revolution" plunged the country.
No one is saying free trade is perfect, it has a lot of problems. The alternative however is not an option. This protectionist, militant nationalism serves only the generals and their circle. Chavez is a joke; to say nothing of Evo.....EVO!!!..for crying out loud!!!!
Cheers Chilie....I like Incabore!!!
# Barock Ohhbaama says :
16 July, 2009 [ 18:01 ]
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# ojos de cuculi says :
24 August, 2009 [ 13:25 ]
Be very aware of Chilie Willy ,the other day I saw Chilie Willy trying to sell The Golden Gate bridge to some Japanese tourist visiting San Francisco.
He also panhandles with a sign that says that he will work for food and likes to drink cheap Chilean wine.
# el cucu says :
24 August, 2009 [ 21:36 ]
EL CUCULI IS WRONG . CHILLI WILLY LIVES IN MIAMI AND SELLS CHLLI DOGS IN SOUTH BEACH .
# Chile is a paper tiger says :
25 August, 2009 [ 08:17 ]
The reality is that Chile is in a major disadvantage. It may appear that they are the 'top dog' because of their military purchases....but. Remember, Chile is only ONE of Peru 's many foreign investors. Canada alone, has more money invested in Peru than Chile. The same can be said for Spain, China, Japan, USA, Mexico, Brazil and others. These countries mentioned have more invested money in Peru than Chile and will not allow their investments to be ruined or stolen by Chile through an attack. As you can see, Chile's arsenal is only for show. But of course, their false pride and arrogance proves their denial of reality.
Some claim that Chile 'owns' Peru because of their investments. This is also not true. On the contrary, all these infastructures and businesses can be taken over by peruvians in the future, or someday sold to a better foreign economy when Chile no longer has a good economy....which will happen because of their limits which have already hit the roof ...it's all set up for it.
Rest assured Peru..... Chile is a paper tiger.
# Miriam says :
28 August, 2009 [ 08:38 ]
couldn't agree more to Incabear comment, the solution here is not the protectionism and nationalism seen in countries like Venezuela, Bolivia and partly Argentina, but stimulate commercial exchange, industrial incentive and opening of the service sector.
Only this can guide our countries out of these vicious circles, which are a nutrient medium leading to populist behaviour like from Chavez, Evo, and even Christina K. in minor scale.
Peru is doing quite well during this crisis, but it's a danger for some people that their armored and immune against external issues.
Carlos, what a pity!!! you seem to want to share so many nice things with the rest of the world, but keep being censored by the admins!
What a conspiracy, huh? hehe
# elcucu says :
28 August, 2009 [ 08:53 ]
WRONG! Chilli Willie onws Peru.
# bonita says :
28 August, 2009 [ 21:51 ]
For the guy who mentioned Obama, guess what country is going down now? With $10 TRILLION in new debt, it may never recover, at least for the next generation. So, is the Democrat party helping the USA? Heck no.
# Tracy says :
2 September, 2009 [ 11:38 ]
I think Chile and Peru should unite agaisnt the leftist governments. :@
He dicho.
# Roberto says :
14 October, 2009 [ 08:31 ]
Jet: Some people have said part of the truth, but I want to add to it. If only you could use that imagination to resolve conflict and tension, instead of subjecting us to obscurantist, bellicose rhetoric.
Tito: I am a Chilean living in the US, and I have to say, you are an embarrassment to my country. Your ethnocentrism and racism does not necessarily represent the best Chile has; unfortunately, it is people like you who allow for this back and forth hatred to be perpetuated. I do not want to be hated by Peruvians or Bolivians, and neither do I want to hate them. They are my brothers and sisters in the same way that Chileans are. I will come forth in the name of justice, and justice as such does not recognize national boundaries. Please, stop misrepresenting the rest of us who abhor racism and lies.
Inca Y: I also need to say that "two wrongs do not make a right." A logical fallacy that in no way can give justice to your cause. Your ethnocentrism is just as bad as that of my countryman Tito. This whole thing of comparing cultures and proclaiming that one's own is the best is just a vestige of European colonization and its legacy. Only a self-conscious person thinks to pull the "my culture is better" tactic.
To the rest of you: I think our conflicts have to be resolved by dialogue and understanding. Instead of vesting all that energy formulating war plans and attacking each other, we could use that energy to improve our communication and our capacity to be human to each other. Whether Chile cedes the lands that the Peruvians and Bolivians claim for themselves, or not, we should still, nevertheless, try to have a dialogue. War would not solve anything as thousands and thousands of people would die, many of whom would be innocent. I do not support countries, I support the truth, justice, goodness, compassion, dialogue.
# Jet says :
16 October, 2009 [ 04:28 ]
Roberto, nothing that I have said has come from the imagination. I've used facts and news reports and stated what I beleive would offer Peru a good defense. There is nothing obscure, nor did I offer any rhetoric.
Secondly, in regards to actual war, I stated "nobody would want this to happen. No Chilean, Argentinian, Bolivian, or Peruvian"
Do you only read what you want to?
Maybe what you are refering to is the second part of what I wrote, however those are NOT my words, nor my imagination. Read again and you will see where I state that those are the words and profetic visions of a Chilean profet, Laura Antonia. If you don't know her work, then look it up. Her other profecies have had stunning accuracy.
# Roberto Vasquez says :
16 October, 2009 [ 16:36 ]
I know this is not a spelling contest, but "profetic" is prophetic, or prophesy rather than "profesy." And by the way, I did notice that you were quoting. Now, the question is: Why would you be quoting this Chilean "profet" unless you were giving her words some degree of credibility? The quote, in other words, appears in the context of your argument, and if you wanted to make use of quotes or excerpts consisitent with your "true" position on the matter, you should have used sources which do not appeal to the imagination, or obscurantist sources. And I still think you're promoting violence and war. You sound like a stragegist for war more than a man of peace. And yes, you are using rhetoric--are you not expressing yourself? There you have it! Unless you are working with the superficial definition which defines the rhetoric as the "use of empty words." I only see what I want to see? That's a subtle ad hominem argument. Bring them on, and you'll be exposed as belligerent.
Now let me quote you and then undertake an analysis of some of your passages and see if your previous claim squares with what you wrote:
"If Peru doesn't wake up and come up with it's own military modernization programme, soon it will find that Chile will enforce it's economic "interests" and Peru will find that it will be on the loosing side of negotiations with Chilean companies that do business in Peru. Soon the ports of Arica and Callao will be under complete control and authority of Santiago unless Peru wakes up."
Here we can see that you have provided a slippery slope argument, which is a fallacy (if we don't this, then this will happen, and then this, and then this, etc). There is no evidence that this will take place, and you have provided none; therefore, the argument is fallacious.
"This no longer has anything to do with the land lost (you mean "land loss") during the war of the Pacific. This is now about Chiles new economic expansionist goals. Anyone who doesn't know about these goals is either ignorant or living in a fantasy."
That simple: either ignorant, or living in a fantasy. That's fallacy number two (false dichotomy). I am from Chile and I am not aware of the "expansionist" goals you mentioned (so, I must be pretty ignorant, or living in a fantasy). That is only in keeping with the lack of substantial evidence, unless you're one again basing this argument on a non-rational source?!?
"The other thing Peru needs to do is come up with a counter plan for Chile arming Ecuador. There are 2 clear and necessary steps Peru needs to take on this front. 1 - Peru must not only update it's own military, but it needs to create a new military front in northern Peru to prepare for the new threat coming from Ecuador with the help of Chile. This includes creating new land bases as well as a new northern naval facility. Remember that Chile will be giving Ecuador 3 submarines to use against Peru."
I could repeat myself again ad nauseam and argue that you sound like a Dick Cheney or Ronald Rumsfeld, that is, a strategist of war. And yes, your rhetoric does lend itself to the interpretation that you're promoting war, rather than peace.
"The other most obvious step Peru must take to counter Chiles (Chile's) move to arm Ecuador, is Peru must help to arm Bolivia. Just as Chile is giving free (free something I suppose) to Ecuador the military armament that it's replacing with newer equipment (this is convoluted, to say the least), so must Peru give to Bolivia tanks, planes, heliocopters and other military equipment that Peru will replace with more modern equipment."
More war strategy...
"There is no doubt that this will give Chile something to think about when Bolivia can place on it's (do you know the difference between a genitive/possessive and a simple contraction?) borders with Chile, tanks, missle batteries, attack heliocopters, etc...In addition to what ever Peru can give to Bolivia, so also is Venezuela helping to prepare Bolivia for a confrontation with Chile. Venezuela is helping Bolivia build runways and installations on the Chilean border."
Wow, more of the same...Now, let's notice the following:
"One day in the not too distant future, Bolivia will again have access to the sea and the rich mineral lands that were stolen from it. And when that happens, Peru will no longer have a border with Chile, which will also help prevent any future conflicts with Ecuador. The reason being that if Peru no longer has a border with Chile, Ecuador would never stand a chance of any type of military action against Peru. It should be obvious to all that this is the ultimate way to bring lasting and final peace to the southern cone of South America."
Didn't you allude to Chile's expansionist goals? This is really ironic give your ealier claims. Tell me, what is this but not a hawkish argument? To suggest that Chile will lose the northern parts to Peru and Bolivia, the triumphant ones--what is it but a desire for revenge? And to add that this will bring "peace" is absurd. This is not your "profet" writing that, but you. The supernaturalism you bring in only makes it seem like it is all pre-determined, and as such, there is no point in engaging in tension-resolving dialogue. It also imputes a false justice to your cause!
Of course "no one would want that to happen." And from the fact that Chile purchased weapons, it doesn't logically follow that Chile is preparing to attack Peru or Bolivia. That is Chile's sovereign right.
Lastly, the arguments you've provided are based on a slippery slope chain of "unreasoning" and endless presumption. Furthermore, it's propaganda to incite anger and hatred.
Also notice that I am not against "Peruvians" as such. I gave worse criticism to my countryman in the response in which I also criticized your rhetoric. I know many Peruvians who are really nice people. I know some who also resent Chileans. And I know Chileans who are racist pigs. So do not take anything I say as an affront on Peruvians or Peru. Your position is ultamately inconsistent and contradictory. And quoting "profets" does nothing to prove your point...
# elcuco says :
17 October, 2009 [ 13:12 ]
To Roberto . You may have been in the USA far too long and have forgatten all what we have accomplished. We Chileans are in fact the most European country in South America. We were settled by The Spaniards that came mostly from the Basque region ,a grpoup of very independent minded and hard working people , The French who began our wine production , The English that created our Navy and gave us our work ethic during the years of the mining of the nitrate production , The Germans who settled in the South and before that reformed our Army , that to this day is the best of South America , The Croats and the Italians who help further defined the Chilean character .
All of these people aided the Chilean culture to be what we have become today and as result , we have became a society that lives in the present ,not having to depend on a long passed history , like that of Bolivia and Peru .
We have a clear view of the future , transforming Chile in a community far far superior to Peru and Bolivia.
What these two countries need to do , is forge forward and work for a better tomorrow.
Viva Chile Mierd. Nos vamos al Mundial
# Roberto says :
17 October, 2009 [ 18:51 ]
I know this is not a spelling contest, but "profetic" is prophetic, or prophesy rather than "profesy." And by the way, I did notice that you were quoting. Now, the question is: Why would you be quoting this Chilean "profet" unless you were giving her words some degree of credibility? The quote, in other words, appears in the context of your argument, and if you wanted to make use of quotes or excerpts consistent with your "true" position on the matter, you should have used sources which do not appeal to the imagination, or obscurantist sources. And I still think you're promoting violence and war. You sound like a strategist for war more than a man of peace. And yes, you are using rhetoric--are you not expressing yourself? There you have it! Unless you are working with the superficial definition which defines rhetoric as the "use of empty words." I only see what I want to see? That's a subtle ad hominem argument. Bring them on, and you'll be exposed as belligerent. Now let me quote you and then undertake an analysis of some of your passages and see if your previous claim squares with what you wrote:
"If Peru doesn't wake up and come up with it's own military modernization programme, soon it will find that Chile will enforce it's economic "interests" and Peru will find that it will be on the loosing side of negotiations with Chilean companies that do business in Peru. Soon the ports of Arica and Callao will be under complete control and authority of Santiago unless Peru wakes up."
Here we can see that you have provided a slippery slope argument, which is a fallacy (if we don't this, then this will happen, and then this, and then this, etc). There is no evidence that this will take place, and you have provided none; therefore, the argument is fallacious.
"This no longer has anything to do with the land lost (you mean "land loss") during the war of the Pacific. This is now about Chiles new economic expansionist goals. Anyone who doesn't know about these goals is either ignorant or living in a fantasy." That simple: either ignorant, or living in a fantasy. That's fallacy number two (false dichotomy). I am from Chile and I am not aware of the "expansionist" goals you mentioned (so, I must be pretty ignorant, or living in a fantasy). That is only in keeping with the lack of substantial evidence, unless you're one again basing this argument on a non-rational source?!?
"The other thing Peru needs to do is come up with a counter plan for Chile arming Ecuador. There are 2 clear and necessary steps Peru needs to take on this front. 1 - Peru must not only update it's own military, but it needs to create a new military front in northern Peru to prepare for the new threat coming from Ecuador with the help of Chile. This includes creating new land bases as well as a new northern naval facility. Remember that Chile will be giving Ecuador 3 submarines to use against Peru."
I could repeat myself again ad nauseam and argue that you sound like a Dick Cheney or Ronald Rumsfeld, that is, a strategist of war. And yes, your rhetoric does lend itself to the interpretation that you're promoting war, rather than peace.
"The other most obvious step Peru must take to counter Chiles (Chile's) move to arm Ecuador, is Peru must help to arm Bolivia. Just as Chile is giving free (free something I suppose) to Ecuador the military armament that it's replacing with newer equipment (this is convoluted, to say the least), so must Peru give to Bolivia tanks, planes, heliocopters and other military equipment that Peru will replace with more modern equipment."
More war strategy...
"There is no doubt that this will give Chile something to think about when Bolivia can place on it's (do you know the difference between a genitive/possessive and a simple contraction?) borders with Chile, tanks, missle batteries, attack heliocopters, etc...In addition to what ever Peru can give to Bolivia, so also is Venezuela helping to prepare Bolivia for a confrontation with Chile. Venezuela is helping Bolivia build runways and installations on the Chilean border."
Wow, more of the same...
Now, let's notice the following: "One day in the not too distant future, Bolivia will again have access to the sea and the rich mineral lands that were stolen from it. And when that happens, Peru will no longer have a border with Chile, which will also help prevent any future conflicts with Ecuador. The reason being that if Peru no longer has a border with Chile, Ecuador would never stand a chance of any type of military action against Peru. It should be obvious to all that this is the ultimate way to bring lasting and final peace to the southern cone of South America."
Didn't you allude to Chile's expansionist goals? This is really ironic given your earlier claims. Tell me, what is this but not a hawkish argument? To suggest that Chile will lose the northern parts to Peru and Bolivia, the triumphant ones--what is it but a desire for revenge? And to add that this will bring "peace" is absurd. This is not your "profet" writing that, but you. The supernaturalism you bring in only makes it seem like it is all pre-determined, and as such, there is no point in engaging in tension-resolving dialogue. It also imputes a false justice to your cause! Of course "no one would want that to happen." And from the fact that Chile purchased weapons, it doesn't logically follow that Chile is preparing to attack Peru or Bolivia. That is Chile's sovereign right. Lastly, the arguments you've provided are based on a slippery slope chain of "unreasoning" and endless presumption. Furthermore, it's propaganda to incite anger and hatred. Note that I am not against "Peruvians" as such. I gave worse criticism to my countryman in the response in which I also criticized your rhetoric. I know many Peruvians who are really nice people. I know some who also resent Chileans. And I know Chileans who are racist pigs. So do not take anything I say as an affront on Peruvians or Peru. Your position is ultimately inconsistent and contradictory. And quoting "profets" does nothing to prove your point...
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