Peru: 500 Thousand Undocumented Peruvians in U.S. could Benefit from TPS

(LIP-ir) -- President of Peru's APRA Parliamentary Cell (CPA), Luis Negreiros Criado, has requested that the Minister of Foreign Affairs, José Antonio García Belaunde, begin the necessary paperwork to request that undocumented Peruvians in the United States be granted Temporary Protected Status (TPS).

The U.S. grants the permit known as the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to countries that have suffered natural disasters or civil wars. The Temporary Protected Status is valid for one year and can be renewed.

This permit was granted to undocumented immigrants in the U.S. from El Salvador when the earthquake of 2001 struck the country and to Nicaragua when hurricane Mitch devastated parts of the country.

"We are aware that activists in the Peruvian community of Miami, represented by the Peruvian American Political Organization, are attempting to reach a fair agreement that will allow our countrymen to live and work in the United States legally, because of humanitarian reasons, as well as continue supporting their families in their native countries," stated Negreiros.

Negreiros declared that this would help thousands of Peruvians living in the U.S., especially those that are supporting family members in the affected regions. It is estimated that 500 thousand undocumented Peruvians could take advantage of the TPS, if it were granted.

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	Undocumented Peruvians Request U.S. Permit After Earthquake (by LIP, Aug 23, 2007)
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# Alan says :
27 August, 2007 [ 20:21 ]

What a total joke - 500K peruvians in the US taking advantage of Pisco's misfortune? 

# Julio Caceres says :
28 August, 2007 [ 09:02 ]

I agree. What a shame that activists are using this disgrace to try and get papers for illegal immigrants. They should at least find out who actually has family in Ica and if they are even supporting them. Asking for documents for 500,000 illegal aliens because of an earthquake that affected a few provinces in one or two regions of the country is an unreasonable request.

Unfortunately it is an example of a Peruvian trying to take advantage of a situation. And Yes, I am Peruvian.

This disaster can't even be compared to what happened in Nicaragua.

# Sarah says :
28 August, 2007 [ 17:06 ]

It seems as if even a disaster will not alter some people's mean-spirit or small mindedness.  Whether Peruvians have family living at the epicenter of the earthquake, the entire country's economy will be negatively affected by it.  I am so tired of only people who are xenophobic spouting off about immigration.  If Peruvians, like any other illegal immigrants, are here working in the United States and not committing any crimes other than their entry into the United States, then they should be given an opportunity to do legally so they can maximize whatever assistance they can provide.

# Julio Caceres says :
28 August, 2007 [ 17:45 ]

So the ends justify the means. I disagree. It doesn't have anything to do with a fear or hatred of foreigners Sarah, it has to do with being fair. And it is not fair for someone to "break into" a country and think its ok to be there just because they are not breaking the law. (Presently because they already broke it once)

If the Peruanos that have illegally gone to the U.S. spent half of the energy they spent running from homeland security on finding a job here in Peru, then they would be just fine.

# Roberto says :
28 August, 2007 [ 18:22 ]

Yes , the US should give the TPS to peruvians, thousands were afected because the earthquake, my family lost everything, i the only suport for them, i need the TPS so i can rebuild my city and my family, those other comments were given by people the forgot were they came from shame on them... so call peruvians.... 

# Alan says :
28 August, 2007 [ 19:52 ]

So, you all realize that if TPS is granted that the US embassy is going to virtually stop issuing visas to peruvians, right? 

# americorps says :
28 August, 2007 [ 20:40 ]

While I am against illegal immigration and wish for tighter security, I am very weary to join any anti-illegal immigration movement because of the following.

1. The focus is always on punishing the illegal immigrant and seldom more than lip service to punishing the illegal employer

2. No one discusses the consequnces if the US rids itself of the 12 million illegal immigrants we now have..food going up by 20-40%, housing costs rise, crops will lay in waste, entire sections of our economy will dissapear, causing catostrophic problems.

3. Generally the racists infiltrate the border protection movement..you start seeing Klans and NAZI literature appear, and you start seeing words like invasion.  I do not care if we have common ground for border security, I will NEVER allign with a racist, I consider them on par with child molesters and rapists.

4. There is a lack of fairness or honesty in the movement, you hear of horror stories from illegal immigrants, but you do not hear the other facts..most pay taxes, few break the law (of course other than the illegal immigration itself), most speak English, if not by the first generation, by the second,

WalMart, for example, is the only company in the latter half of the 20th century to be convicted of breaking slavry laws and they suffered a small fine and no one went to prison...even though it was proven that top execs knew they were exploiting illegal immigrants.

5. The US spends more money daily on starbucks coffee than it would take to house every poor person in Latin America...I know many of my fellow Americans are xenophobes, but I feel we need to help keep children from suffering and that is more important than coffee. (of course I am a total hipocrit and drink my starbucks from time to time)

6. Peru just suffered a terrible blow and despite the President's warm fuzzy press releases, this will have a long term severe economic impact and with Chavez/Humala trying to destabilize the Pruvian Government...and we know they are dirty enough to prey on this type of disaster, it is in EVERYONE's best interests, US and Peruvian alike, to keep the economy growing as that directly limits Chavez/Humala influance.

And finally, with the Peruvian work ethic being amung the best in the world, perhaps we Americans can learn a thing or two about working hard.

# Roberto G. says :
29 August, 2007 [ 09:27 ]

Get your facts strait US has a commerce trade with Peru, they won't stop issuing visas.

# Rocio says :
29 August, 2007 [ 17:56 ]

I don't really know what to think. I'm personally tired of always being lump together with illegal immigrants but at the same time i do understand that many come for a better future. Why shouldn't peruvians be given the same protection that salvadorians and nicaraguans, if the gov't gave it to them it shoudl also give it to Peru. If one is to talk about justice then it should be equal to everyone regardless of the amount of immigrants from that country that is in the U.S

# alan says :
29 August, 2007 [ 18:44 ]

Get your facts strait US has a commerce trade with Peru, they won't stop issuing visas.

Huh?  The TLC, which by the way has not been ratified, has nothing to do with tourist visas.  Why would the embassy issue visas if anyone could stay illegally in the united states with a free pass? 

I am not against the poor sap that wants to work, but come on, all of peru is so devestated and impacted by the eathquake that it would be inhumane to deport people back to Peru?  That's just absurd.

# Ronald C says :
29 August, 2007 [ 20:10 ]

It would be great if they approve a TPS for Peru.

# Manny says :
30 August, 2007 [ 00:19 ]

I hope the US Gov. approve the TPS for peruvian. Good Luck to everyone and please don't be mean.

# CAT says :
31 August, 2007 [ 13:59 ]

Peruvians are hard working, if they are here in America and working to have a better future for themselves and famlilies then i say why not!!!
TPS should be granted for the hard working peruvians living her in US as long as they are not commiting any crimes they should be granted TPS. That will help many in the future!!


To those people who are against it should just stop writing thier comments... you guys dont know how it is to live in the U.S. illegally.. more than half the of the people that are here illegally are working their asses off... there's always comments how every latino is the same... but to be hoset they are not!!! you see many latinos outside of stores looking for some kind of work they can do for anybody... but what about those people that are here and were born the US many are bums and try to get the easy way out instead of trying to find work all they do is just ask for money... while others that are here illegally are out in hot sun or cold to find a job!!!  

sure there are the ones that commit crimes and to those they should be sent back to thier countries but not to those who are here to make a better living!!!

Im glad to be Peruvian and i will support my country what ever it takes!!!

# Roberto G. says :
31 August, 2007 [ 15:18 ]

CAT, thank you i feel the same way

arriba Peru........caraj............

# chris says :
31 August, 2007 [ 18:17 ]

Peruvians have the same rights than salvadorians and the people from Nicaragua, Peru is not a safe country any longer because of the earthquake , peruvians should stay in America and help their families back in Peru.
I am strongly agree with the TPS for this country. and of course I dont need to be peruvian to support this idea.

# Manny says :
31 August, 2007 [ 18:21 ]

You'r right CAT, I support you!!! When i was living in Portland, I saw many american people living under the bridge and that's because they want to live like that and ask for money all day long. How is that possible in here in USA? I just don't get it!!! In this country anybody could make money working really hard. So I support TPS for my people, no matter what other people. So be it!!!

# Randall says :
1 September, 2007 [ 08:36 ]

I am an American living in Ft. Lauderdale who know a lot of Peruvians here, some illegal.  They are great people and shame on all of you who are saying so much negative stuff about people whom you have never met.

It's unbelievable that Julio Caceres has no compassion for his own people!

And as for these comments about "deport them because they broke the law...", if thats how we are doing things, then everyone who ever got a speeding ticket here in the U.S. should be deported even if they are a citizen...hey, they broke the law!  I hope you see the stupidity of your argument.    Please donate to the earthquake assistance fund listed at: http://www.consulado-peru.com/

God Bless Peru!

# Julio Caceres says :
1 September, 2007 [ 11:21 ]

I have not read any comments about anyone saying that Peruvians are not great people or hard workers. Peruvians are excellent poeple and hard workers.

That isn't the point. Them breaking into a country or staying longer than permitted is wrong. It has nothing to do with their personality or how hard they work.

more than half the of the people that are here illegally are working their asses off...

Why don't they work their asses off here? Why don't they invest the thousands of dollars it takes to get to Mexico and the thousands of dollars it takes to cross the border in finding a solution here. Why don't they spend all of that time, energy and money finding a solution in Peru?

Once again it has nothing to do with how "nice" they are, it has to do with breaking the law. Is there not a solution that does not involve breaking the law?

you guys dont know how it is to live in the U.S. illegally..

Its obviously hard, considering the fact you are ILLEGAL. If you had bothered to do the necessary paperwork then it wouldn't be so hard.

Why is it ok to be in a country illegally just because you are working? Why shouldn't that person have to do the required paperwork like every other normal person?

By the way... what the heck does getting a speeding ticket have to do with illegally entering a counrty?

# xenia says :
1 September, 2007 [ 13:45 ]

Obviously, Mr Julio Caceres, let tell u something....get a life ASAP!!! I have had the best education in peru studied in roosevelt, part of the highest social status in lima, and not even myself nor any other friends and family have such a stupid way of thinking. You are the typical case of a person who has never had anything and just wants to make fun of the suffering of other people. It is such a shame for you to be called peruvian, and you know what? maybe that is the reason you dont seem to love your country, for being such a selfish and mean person. Please, don't go back to peru, u won't be welcome.

# Julio Caceres says :
1 September, 2007 [ 15:22 ]

Unfortunately, after such a vast and profound education you have not addressed the issue. You have not in any way explained, justified or supported your point of view.

I live in Peru and love the country. I had the pleasure of visiting the United States and returned to Peru when I was supposed to. It was not necessary for me to invade anothers country. Peru has much to offer when you take the time to search its treasures.

P.S. It is not necessary to tell everyone where you "studied" or that you are part of the "highest" social class in the counrtry. The information is irrelevant and frankly no one cares.

It's too bad you feel that your opinion is more valid just because you claim to have studied at a certain school.

# americorps says :
1 September, 2007 [ 15:52 ]

Julio, when people need to work, when they need to feed their children, when they feel like they can not make it up in life, they will find whatever means they need to fill the need, including illegal immigration.  it is unreasonable to sit and judge someone and it is even more unreasonable to expect them to forgo those needs to work to improve their country. 

I do not favor illegal immigration, but will not sit in a position of privelage and decide for them that they are bad people or think I know enough about their life to tell them how to live it.

perhaps you have that magical power, but I do not.  If my kid was hungry, if I could not make it out of poverty, I would do whatever it took.  I suspect you might do the same, but I hope you are never in the position to find out.

# Julio Caceres says :
1 September, 2007 [ 16:17 ]

I have not and would not judge anyone. Once again the issue is not who, what or how the people are, it is that a law is being broken. I have not said and do not think that  they are bad.

I'm sure they are normal people with the same dreams, hopes and aspirations everyone else has.

When something is illegal its very easy to say its incorrect. Its illegal for a reason. There is no magic in stating a fact.

If your kids are hungry and you are in poverty where do you get the thousands of dollars it takes to have someone smuggle you into the U.S.?

Once again, why can't that money be invested in something else? A MYPE perhaps. There are plenty of organizations that help poor people begin businesses with a few soles.

There was a report shown the other day about farmers in Peru's highlands. Farmers that grow maca. Farmers 4,000 m.a.s.l. These farmers, instead of sitting around and complaining about the government or ilegally going to the U.S. got into gear and are now exporting their maca.

C'mon people. Is it really that hard to understand that illegally going to another country is not the ONLY solution?

# rocio says :
1 September, 2007 [ 17:29 ]

I see what Julio is trying to say. But since u seem to be an expert on the subject, tell me Julio what in your point of view would be the best solution for the growing number of illegal immigrants in the U.S? and please write an explicit solution since it appears that u think the problem is not a conundrum.

# Roberto G. says :
1 September, 2007 [ 17:43 ]

Julio Ca.........whatever, you are not american so shut your mouth..., you don't even live and work in USA ,what the hell are you talking about, samething that you don't even know. Write to Alan Garcia he'll fix whatever is driving you crazy.....and YOUR NOT AMERICAN  remember that.
To all peruvians in USA , YES TO THE TPS
YES to the TPS for peruvians

# Manny says :
1 September, 2007 [ 17:59 ]

Good one Rocio!!! Yes Julio give us a solution what to do whit 12.5 millons of illegal workers in US. Probably you can think better than the US. Congressmen and even better than President Bush. By the way where do you work? perhaps you could give some people a good job so they dont need to come to US.
Are you sure all the illegal peruvian came to US crossing Mexican border? and how much do u know about immigration laws? do u know about the current law? Even a Federal Judge can stop a inmigration laws in this country and also can give the green card to those illegal inmmigrants, so they could became to be legal just like that. When you said they didn't do paperwork you are wrong!!! most people did it but the time they have to wait could take longer so the only solution the found is go to US and stay over there and just wait with their family. Petition paperwork take a long time even 15 years at most but most of the time takes between 1 and 10 years, it depends of what category you are. So some poeple don't wanna wait in Peru that time and they decide go to US by any necessary means.
Finally if you have a good position in life why don't use all your energy and time to help you own people? You can do Forums, go and talk in work places and explain them all your points of view. Good luck.

# Katrina.N says :
1 September, 2007 [ 18:58 ]

Julio & Alan especially Julio Caseres when it comes to inocent children &

their well being & to better their future parents will do anything for
 
them.  Their situation in Peru can become so desperate to the point

where they have to leave their country that they love so much to put

their kids first. 'Breaking the law' does not mean a thing at this

point kids come first before any law.  Most of them are not hurting

anyone but 'The Law' which doesn't matter when one is desperate

enough to give their precious babies a better chance in life.

Please guys don't be so hard & show more compassion because this is a

very sensitive subject & if your not suffering it then it's better not to

say anything because it hurts many people who's dignity is suffering
 
from becoming an illegal immigrant for the sake of their family. Don't try

to win the argument just listen & go beyond your thoughts in this
 
matter.

# Ronald C says :
1 September, 2007 [ 19:33 ]

Julio Caceres is the classic stereotype of the selfdeluded
Peruvian that thinks because he got to the U.S. he can
judge others.

He is only envious that other peruvians get the same
privilege.

Thank you for the support of the American People,
and please if you know a Peruvian, let them know
about the news of the TPS, many peruvians that
are in the U.S. don't even have access to a computer.

Thank you,

Best Wishes.

# Cesar A. says :
1 September, 2007 [ 19:50 ]

I'm a undocumented Peruvian in USA from Jul-2000 to Now,every months without lack I send money to my family in Peru and to all the one that needs I help too, and payment my taxes every year.  a TPS will help to many as I to double our incomes and we can help more to our families in the Peru.
Las Remesas que enviamos al Peru son miles de millones de Dolares si no lo creen Averiguen...y son PERMANENTES, asi aliviamos la falta de empleo y damos una vida mas digna a nuestras familias.
Los Indocumentados no somos culpables de que los Residentes legales o Ciudadanos Americanos NO PUEDAN comprarse una casa o no puedan mentenerse en sus trabajos...El hecho de que muchos indocumentados ganen mas que los Residentes legales y ciudadanos, a motivado una serie de celos y envidia que se refleja en muchas de las declaraciones que estos tienen de nosotros poniendo escusas tontas para tratar de  hacernos ver mal ante la sociedad Americana que si trabaja.
Creo que SI ustedes Los LEGALES dejarian de sentirse fijos en USA y serian mejores trabajadores lograrian como mucho de nosotros mantenerse en sus Trabajos.
Los Indocumentados venimos a USA a Trabajar todo el dia, de madrugada,feriados,etc...no venimos desde tan lejos especialmente a quitarte el empleo, creo que el trabajo tu mismo te lo quitas con tu iresponsabilidad y al no tener ganas de avansar.
Este aÑo en Febrero  declare al IRS  US120,000  y con el TLC podria facturar mas... y tambien pude comprarme una Casa mas bonita que la de mis vecinos gringos...Gracias.
Gracias.

# JUAN CARLOS says :
1 September, 2007 [ 20:25 ]

All you guys are practicing the same america hypocresy: obey the law if anybody is watching on you. Alan, Caceres and others: why don't you guys come back to Peru to try top get the some easy job you probably  have in US. I was not amazed if I was caught you like those double faced congressman talking about to obey the law just out of the bathrooms.
So since TPS program's spirit is compassion you are quit far of it and you are most interested to transfer your sick xenophobic ideas about something you really have no anything to do... as we say "actuan como cholos con plata".

# juan carlos says :
1 September, 2007 [ 20:36 ]

Indeed Caceres, we should to invest in a MYPE and then I will ask a carrito sanguchero to Laura, right?. You really don't know how to work in Peru is better shut your keyboard out.
 
For example my buddy ann me work in a fatory mixed of a american, asian, european, african, latino, etc, and any of them  really work so hard and so efficient than us despite we only show the same the skills we use in Peru. That is the classic collateral benefit that makes America great, if you don't understand that, please don't block our way.

# Julio Caceres says :
1 September, 2007 [ 22:11 ]

LOL! Wow, what a response. Since it seems many of you are in an uproar I will take the time to address each of you individually.

Rocio, what a shame you have nothing to contribute. You say you see what I am trying to say yet you do not have an opinion of your own to express, instead you opt for asking me for a solution. Furthermore, you demand an explicit solution.

A good start to solving the problem is being handled here in Peru. Peruvian citizens are being encouraged to formalize their businesses. Everyday there are more programs which help people realize that there are more opportunities here than they think. A change in mentality is beginning to surge. People are beginning to realize that it isn't necessary to risk your life to illegally go to another country. There are thousands of cases of people that have made it out of poverty without illegally going to another country.

Ladies and gentlemen I am not saying that people shouldn't migrate, they can do it, it's great, just don't risk your life doing it illegally. There are other options.

Robert G, I assume you are referring to North American. You are right I am not from the United States... and? What does my nationality have to do with anything? Why do I have to "shut my mouth." I can only express my opinion if I am form the United States? It seems to me you are racist. I am free to express my opinion whether I am Peruvian or North American.

Manny, I am sure Rocio appreciates your support. The U.S. Government seems to be handling the problem just fine. Unfortunately now we have sad stories in which a married man with children in the U.S. gets deported because he does not have the necessary paperwork. He has to leave his family behind because of a rash decision he made 15 years ago. The consequences are worse than if he would have just stayed in his country. Now this man is torn from his family. Why, because he did not bother to do things legally.

The U.S. isn't folding on this issue people, it's only getting worse. What I am saying is that people need to be educated. Don't go to countries illegally. If you have to leave in six months... leave in six months. Workplaces are being vigorously checked for illegal workers. Anyone can be stopped in the street and asked for documentation.

Are we encouraging illegal immigration?

Immigrants are now paying the price for bad decisions. It's reality. There has to be order in the world, people can't just do what they please. Laws have to be respected.  Should all the illegal aliens be given their citizenship? hmmmm? Think of the consequences.

Let's continue Manny, "So some poeple don't wanna wait in Peru that time and they decide go to US by any necessary means." Thank you Manny, this is a good example, they make rash decisions and later have to deal with the justice system. All of our actions have consequences, we can't escape that.

Katrina, you are saying that people can decide when to obey and disobey the law. Where does it stop? "I had to steal food from Metro or Safeway, my children were hungry". Is that what we are teaching future generations? Where are our principles?

Self deluded is two words Ronald. I will repeat for you what I posted in earlier comments. Take the time to read before you attempt to criticize. Peruvians should go and work, just don't put yourself at risk - go legally. You are only jeopardizing yourself and your family if you don't.

You made my point Juan Carlos, many go to the U.S. to look for that "easy job" you are talking about. Explain a "cholo con plata." To my understanding you are using "cholo" in a derogatory manner. Maybe you could clarify your insult.

# vanessa says :
1 September, 2007 [ 22:23 ]

It's a shame to hear that there's people like "julio" out there in this world... Especially beacuse your peruvian and belief that it's unreasonable that these people should receive any type of help.Your most likely judgeing because of your own condition, believe it or not there are people that work two jobs and get paid 2/3 of what you get and on top of that support their families.Think about it being llegalized would not only help us peruvian but also the government since there are taxes that need to be paid.

# Julio Caceres says :
1 September, 2007 [ 22:48 ]

What a shame that there are people in the world that want to use pity to influence others.

# LUCY URBAN says :
1 September, 2007 [ 23:58 ]

If the TPS will help "all" the undecumented Peruvians, but think, all the 500,000 are from Pisco, Chincha? I don't think so, as for Julio Caceres, I think you all don't hear him at all, of course if you are illegal in USA you are going to be against him, it is too bad the everyone is going to be rewarded , not just the persons that really sending the monies to their love ones in that part of the Earthquake, I don't think that's right , there are lots of Peruvians, unfortunately are the embarrasment, not saying that every single Peruano are the same, I know lots of Peruvians there were awiting for there Visas, took a very long time, but happy in USA with no worries, most of you all don't see the whole picture, as for el Sr. that wrote in Spanish, you got the nerve to make fun of the American Citizens, saying you got better house and making more money
WOW , too bad you feel that way, instead you should be greatfull .
If you enter any country you must respect the laws of that particular one, I don't think Peru let any one enter with out a Visa, or if your are a visitor for more than three months you end up paying fees, wich you don't !

Have a good day

# katrina.N . says :
2 September, 2007 [ 03:41 ]

To all those who have left their beloved country because of hardships & are deeply offended by Julio's comments Please don't be you have the rights to make your lives better for you & your families even if it takes being an illegal immigrant you have our full support here in Australia.

Lucy you make no sense & Julio you are a self rightious & hard hearted
 
man people like you will never understand you can argue till you're pink
 
& blue....we are talking about fellow humans!!!  Even politicans who can
 
be the hardest & selfish of all people are granting the TPS because they
 
know these people have just as much rights as any other decent human
 
in the states so stop with your unhelpful reasonings & learn to love
 
people more it's good for your health, you are just making yourself look
 
foolish & arrogant & you're probably a very clever & nice person but
 
your portraying yourself to be the opposite to that, you should be embarressed!

# pgoros says :
2 September, 2007 [ 05:40 ]

Incredible! All these ludicrous pro-TPS and anti-Julio posts only serve to show that the typical peruvian mindset still can't understand the simple logic behind legal vs. illegal. You know what? Work to solve your own problems in your own country, demand standards, demand that people THERE begin obeying their own laws, and not take the easy way out by crossing a border without permission and then moaning about how hard life is afterwards and how your new country's legal system refuses to grant you citizenship after you've broken one of their laws.

As they say, "you've made your bed, now sleep in it"... And to think that all this hoopla started because of a natural disaster, how pathetic that you all now want to take advantage of the TPS, at the expense of people in your own country that are REALLY suffering right now?!?!

I wonder how many of you poor, hard-working (illegal) immigrants actually have family living in the Ica region? This is sooo f*cking typical of the peruvian mindset... to always keep an eye out for an angle where you benefit at whatever cost to others.

Let me finish by reminding you all that the reason why most countries make it difficult for honest, educated, law-abiding peruvians to visit or emmigrate to is because of YOU! How patriotic of you to break the law, thinking you'll end up living the good life somewhere else, screwing the rest of your countrymen in the process, and now crying about your less-than-ideal status... of course right now after an earthquake, when you hope that the world might take pity on you most.

Kudos, Julio, for your logic and for not backing down from your stance.

# Ronald C says :
2 September, 2007 [ 07:39 ]

I am one of the honest, educated, law abiding peruvians and
I personally consider that the only thing that the TPS does
is allow to the rest of the Peruvians to regularize their situation.

And People like Julio in Peru have fully censored and blocked
most information about the TPS.

From the year 2000 to the year 2007, 5 million peruvians have
left the country, the salaries are low as everybody knows.
One friend of mine (Top of his class in High School and College)
earn $ 800 a month for 60 hours of work, the average salary
is $100 per month, that is if you get a job because 50%
of the population is unemployed.

Now the above situation is before the Earthquake, after the
unemployment has jumped to 70%(maybe 80%, I don't have
current numbers).

The TPS is granted based on the above numbers together
with other factors, therefore if the American Government
grants a TPS will be regardless of my opinion (in favor)
or other people opinion (against); and if some illegals
get it, good for them.

# Randall says :
2 September, 2007 [ 11:23 ]

Dear Julio Caceres,

Since you just dont get what everyone is telling you, I will spell it out!

1. You said: "By the way... what the heck does getting a speeding ticket have to do with illegally entering a counrty?" 

It has everything to do with it.  The law is the law and EVERYBODY has to follow it.  Since your argument is that illegals have to leave because
they broke the law, then EVERYONE who broke ANY law, should leave (by your argument).


2. You said: "Robert G, I assume you are referring to North American. You are right I am not from the United States... and? What does my nationality have to do with anything?"

Again, Senor Caceres, you don't get it.  I was born in the U.S. and my family has been here since before our Civil War.  I am a citizen and I have the right to an opinion in this, YOU DONT. YOU ARE NOT AN AMERICAN SO ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS IF WE LIKE PERUVIANS. Why dont you talk down about Peruvians on a street corner in La Victoria in Lima and see what happens.

3. You said: "Manny, I am sure Rocio appreciates your support. The U.S. Government seems to be handling the problem just fine." 

Again Sr. Caceres, you dont know what the hell you are talking
about because you dont live here (in the U.S.) We have an estimated 12 million illegals here and the problem is not being addressed in a positive way.  Only "send them back, they broke the law".
Shall we create a "Gestapo" to round them up?  Idiot!

What we need is an amnesty for the people who are here, and find a
comprehensive way to address immigration in the future.

Got it now?

# Angela says :
2 September, 2007 [ 11:32 ]

Dear Julio,

Read carefully my boyfriends comments (Randall)!

First, you can't generalize about every immigrant because each has their own special situation. 

Second, I had to leave Lima because I did not feel safe anymore in my own country.  I was assaulted twice with pistols, robbed in my home and Sendero Luminoso (do you have any idea who they are?) tried to kidnap my kid. For that reason, our family had bodyguards for many years.  I was legal here in the U.S. with a business visa that could not be renewed after 9/11. I had made a life here where I am much more safe than in Lima and I am grateful to the U.S. for giving me an opportunity to make a living.  I love the U.S. and dont want to return to Peru. I don't care about status here.  I pay my taxes and work hard.  Why do you want to have me sent back to be unemployed, robbed and maybe killed?

# rocio says :
2 September, 2007 [ 11:49 ]

Well said Randall!!! Maybe now Mr. Julio can understand why people get so heated at his point of view. Illegal immigration is a huge problem in the U.S and needs a solution. Also let me address this statement "Rocio, what a shame you have nothing to contribute." As a matter of fact I did contribute, I just merely pointed out a problem to which you have no knowledge or solution. As for my point of view there should be a law that helps people who have worked so hard for so long, they deserved. I'm a legal immigrant in the U.S thus I can see both worlds. I go back to Peru to see that every year it gets worse and worse. The richer get richer and the poorer get poorer, and I also see the illegal immigrant working 12 or more hours a day for a few dollars. You probably have not been here that long to see the actual problem or at least get a glimpse at the reality millions of people are facing.

# Manny says :
2 September, 2007 [ 13:57 ]

hahaha.. you don't even answer any of my 5 questions? you better read about immigration laws. Improved yourself. By the way Im legal in US and I also know a lot of people who live and work really hard in here.
Don't try to be sarcastic!!! and tell me how many sad stories do you know? because you know just one, it doesn't give the right to speak for the rest of people. So explain what to do with the 12.5 millons. Do you think they should go back to their home countries? and what about with their family? You said all because the didn't do the right decision 15 years ago!!! You are pathetic!!! read man, reaaaaaaaad!!!
For me this forum is pointless, so this is it. Good luck to everyone and don't try to argue with this "hater man" he is one of that kind of people they think they owner the absolute truth!!! So don't even bother to try to make you point. Some people are brainless. So be it.

# americorps says :
2 September, 2007 [ 14:49 ]

# Manny says :
2 September, 2007 [ 13:57 ]

So don't even bother to try to make you point. Some people are brainless. So be it.

*************************


Pot, Kettle, Black

# LUCY URBAN says :
2 September, 2007 [ 21:04 ]

Most people acting like children's calling names to one person, as for Kathrina N. yes , I know what I'm talking about , you are leaving where? oh yes , Australia, actually you don't know anything about leaving in USA, most of you are attacking verbally to one person, just because he does have a different view? am guess does goes for me too, oh well, yes, we have too many illegals leaving in California, over 12 millions , you'll like to have that many Illegal Inmigrants in Peru, not paying taxes, abusing the System, Water shortage, Health Insurance ,Hospitals closing down, ect, ect do you all think this is the right think to do? am not talking only about Peruvians, is in general , I'am sympathize we the poor people,  but that doesn't mean you must invade other country, an enter Illegaly .

You all have a nice day

# jose says :
2 September, 2007 [ 21:37 ]

Amen Julio Caceres! I can't believe no one has applauded this man for having morals and values!
everyone else..why dont you hold your own country responsible for your problems???? bitch to your own country and your own people before you bitch to mine! be grateful for what you have received and give it back to the poor peruvians in the mountains who don't even have water to drink!!! stop buying dvd players and acting so self righteous. from my experience in peru, those that REALLY need the help are in the same position. IF YOU WORKED HALF AS HARD IN YOUR COUNTRY AS YOU DID TRYING TO GET THE HELL OUT OF IT....YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FEEL PROUD

*SR CESAR learn english or dont be so embarassed to write what you said in english...pelele.

# katrina says :
2 September, 2007 [ 23:37 ]

Lucy i appologize for saying that i don't understand a word you are saying I read what you wrote carefully again & i got the message didn't mean to offend you it's not easy to learn a new language let alone write it perfectly so I'm sorry about this you done well. 

I also want to say that I have lived in the States for a long time but eventually missed home & returned back to OZ but the point is I do know how it's like to live in the USA & I have seen a lot of discrimination against the hespanics & blacks there & yet they spice up the country which is what I loved about the States.

Getting back to the subject of illegal immigrants, I just want to ask you a few things, just to understand you & everyone else that thinks like you, & it's not to argue with you I'm honestly interested to know coz it's not in my nature to think the way you do.

Lucy is your life that horrible in the US because of the 'invasion' as you call it is it torture to you personally, because you say to me 'you don't know how it's like to live in the USA' as if to say that you are so miserable there because of the illegal immigrants, well that's the impression I got. Do you have friends that are illegal I'm sure you've met some lovely people & you've become quite friendly with them, do they know how you feel & do you tell them that they are invaders?  How would they feel if they had knowledge of your thoughts about them? Are most of them law abiding & hard working people?  They have broken the law they are illegal immigrants.  Do you feel that all the 12,000,000 men women & children in Cali have got to be kicked out of theStates & return to poverty? Do they not deserve like you & your family a good life in a more afluent country for them & their children?  Can't there be exceptions? Lucy you don't feel they are lesser humans than you don't you?   Please tell me you don't. 

With respect

Katrina

# americorps says :
3 September, 2007 [ 07:09 ]

Lucy,

I am dissapointed you use suppositions and partial truths as though they are the facts.

1. There are an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA as a whole, not 12 million in California alone.

2. Most illegal immigrants, according to our own GAO (Government Accounting Office) pay taxes

3. Abusing the system..what does that mean...if it means public assistance, the rates are acutally also lower than the pundints suggest.

4. Hospitals are not closing because of illegal immigrants and again I point to GAO studies that suggest it is more due to the nature of rising health costs and uninsured Americans, illegal immigrants are a drop in the bucket to the woes of American health care.

5. How exactly do you blame illegal immigrants for a water shortage?

6. The word invade is a term that is patently racist, there is no invastion, no one is trying to take over the USA and destroy our way of life, quite the opposite, they are trying to join our system, they come for a love of what our country has to offer.

7. Again, I have to ask why there is so much whining by my fellow Americans about illegal immigrants yet neary a word about the thousand of illegal corporations and executives and entities that profit off them.

8. If we get rid of the 12 million illegal immigrants, who is going to farm our fields? Are you prepared to pay 5 or 6 dollars for a gallon of milk, or pay 20-30% more for your food, 10-15% more for housing or the other costs that will rise dramitically....or are you prepared to pay more taxes to help the millions of Americans who will be out of work when their illegal immigrant customers go away...or the farmers who will loose their farms because their crops are rotting in a field due to lack of help in harvesting them?

I am dissapointed that so many of my fellow Americans are too shallow t see the whole picture.

I am against illegal immigration, and I am in favor of border security (thought it is not lost on me that not a single 9-11 hijacker entered through Mexico) but I am also not going to use racist rhetoric and fake facts to impress my point.  Further, I am not so dense that I think the answer as simple as just getting rid of them, knowing if we do that will leave my country in chaos and provide severe economica instability for decades to come.  Finally, it is not lost on me that we spend more money on starbucks coffee every day than it would take to help feed all the poor children in Latin America. 

I will reiterate, becuase I find this to be the wost of my country...whenever thid debate rises we have to find words like invasion.  I am ashamed of any American and I apologize on behalf of my country for the minority, albiet very vocal group of citizens that seem to not be able to avoid racist rhetoric in discussing this issue, please know that while most Americans are not in favor of illegal immigration, MOST of us deplore the rhetoric that the racists opportunist are injecting into this debate, it is not a reflection of my country as a whole.

# vanessa says :
3 September, 2007 [ 11:11 ]

manny, i agree with you.Some people are just brainless and dont have the abillity to understand the reason why 12.5 million people had left their homes and even their love ones in order to succeed and give them a better life. It's a missfortune that life sometimes gives more to those who dont deserve it. For MR. Julio and Jose i wonder if you guys grew up in an unloving family beacuse so far that's the only explanation i can posssibly come up with for your arrogant and selfish opinnions.Good luck with that mind of yours...

# LUCY URBAN says :
3 September, 2007 [ 13:22 ]

Kathrina, no, my live is an anyway horrible, also Americorps, you don't have to appolagized on my behalf, every time American Citizens complaint about the Illegals, or call Invasion of Illegals, is because they enter in mass with no papers that show they paid there dues , you called it Racism, which is not, we're talking about breaking the law here, so don't twisted what I was saying?  yes, the 12 millions of Illegals are living all over USA, by most are living in Cal, as far as a respect for others imput on this "Subject ", you all had none, the few that we are not sharing your views, we're wrong ! Kathrina, also with all the respect that you deserved, I never said anything about no one can 
enter USA, but as long they enter legally, as I said before, I wasn't talking about every single Illegal inmigrant are the same, nor I was talking only about Peruvians. As most of you call us 'brainless" to the few not sharing your ideas, an acting whith no maturity, by the way I haven called you names, as I do treat everyone with respect .





  

# Jaime says :
3 September, 2007 [ 13:43 ]

Julio Caceres: What can you say of the hundreds of thousands of Peruvians that have Political Assylum because of the Shining Path's (Sendero Luminoso) persecution????

You are complaining about Breaking the Law. If we are to compare them with those that might benefit from receiving the TPS now, those people used the death of more than 70.000 people to justify their legal status here.

Have you ever done the math of the amount of money 500.000 Peruvians living in the US will inject into the Peruvian Economy? YOUR ECONOMY? Even bigots like you will benefit from our work here. More now that the TLC looks like a reality.

Don't talk wit you liver, talk with your brain.

Jaime

# Americorps says :
3 September, 2007 [ 14:33 ]

Lucy, I have lived in Both San Diego, California and Austin, Texas.  I have tutored migrant farm workers in Kansas and Texas and I have worked on immunization projects for the border and I was "married" to an asylee from Mexico and I know more about immigration, legal and illegal, than you will ever read from your rush limbaugh approved website.

For example, I know the first people to refer to illegal immigration in the press as "invasion" was the freedom foundation that also funds much of the vigelante border patrol called the Minutemen.  It took no time to find out that besides funding the Minutemen, they also fund Eugenics...for those who do not know, that is the scientific study Hitler used to try and "prove" Jewish people were inferior.  Nice company Lucy.  Yes, the word invasion is racist.

Further, every time there are Minutemen meetings, there is a rash of NAZI and KKK literature that surrounds it and oft soundbites distributed to local media are, word for word, found on NAZI and KKK websites.

And still, Lucy, not a word about Walmart, the only corporation in the latter half of the 20th century to be found guilty of slavery because of abuse of illegal immigrants...why is that?  Why do you repeated call the illegal immigrants lawbreakers but neary a word about all our fellow Americans who continue to profit and utilize these workers?....the ones who create the opportunities for parents who want their children to have a better future?  Who is a bigger criminal?

And is there any particular reason you do not address any of the issues that are DIRECTLY connected to eliminating illegal immigration that will cause terrible distress to our country?

Or why do you not correct yourself when using facts that come...again I gotta worry about the company you keep, NAZI and KKK websites that skew statistics about criminal activity, medical costs, tax information and entitlements and illegal immigrants?  There are legitimate statistics and rhetoric, but why use the fake ones?

I would think, as an American, you would have a profound need for the truth and as an American, you would distance yourself from such unpatriotic and unethical and hateful rhetoric. 

Yes, I do feel the need to apologize for my fellow Americans becuase so many of them feel free to quote these false sound bites that originated by the KKK and Nazis without ever once checking to find the facts or the source...or repeating soundites from people who idolize Hitler.

For me, I can not and will never accept that as ok in my America.  It will always be a shame as long as it exists in my America...

And, by the way, California has a lower percentage of illegal immigrants than 14 other states, according to the US Census Bureau estimates, but the California Independent Party, the registered white supremecist political party, claims more like you do...

I am NOT, and I repeat this emphatically, NOT saying you are racist, but I am saying you are regurgitating things they have said that are not true, and it is UNIMPORTANT to me that you join them by choice or by ignorance, joining them is intolerable as it gives them legitimacy and power.

Lucy, there are very legitimate reasons to secure our borders and to stop the tide of illegal immigration, but in America, we need to do it above reproach and with liberty and justice for all.  If we continue to use fake facts, racist rhetoric and ignore the supremecist over-tones, then I see little that separates us from terrorists.

Clear?

# vanessa says :
3 September, 2007 [ 18:31 ]

wow julio and some of his buddys that share their same point of view keep mentioning how these illigal immigrants have broken the "law" and for that they dont deserve a TPS please be reasonable and dont judje unless you are in one's position. If you belong to the upper class in peru than good for you but that's because every year the rich keeps getting richer and the poor gets poorer.. unfortunally it takes a whole nation to change our government, there's corrupted people that handle our country. Laws are broken daily and the economy does not benefit those who really need it. Ive been in the U.S for the past ten years and i know from my own experience how hard life can be in peru and just like everyone else i have dreams that made me leave my country for a better future and achieve a higher education so when expressing your selfish opinion keep in mind that your comments offends all of us, who are waitting for change...

# LUCY URBAN says :
3 September, 2007 [ 19:52 ]

No matter what I say, am still wrong, so why do I have to try hard to get my point across ? you all talking about the same subject , racism , which is not the problem here . Guess you all got tired to complaint about Julio, now is my turn, oh boy ! by the way Americorps, I too have lived in other State,  what this has to do with this subject at all ? CLEAR ? what do you think , you're talking to a child ? if you do not know how to take it like a gentleman , well is up to you, No one is going to make you change your mine or the others , nor mine, so attacking is not the answer, clear????

# Diego says :
3 September, 2007 [ 20:33 ]

Yes, Mr Caceres. Stop offending us. I'm like Vanessa. I came to this country more than 10 years ago. Now I am waiting for a miracle. Maybe the TPS is my miracle.

# Alan says :
4 September, 2007 [ 07:02 ]

If TPS does happen, which I strongly doubt, really, the embassy is going to cut off new visas just like they did in El Salvador.

# Victor says :
4 September, 2007 [ 10:40 ]

TPS is a REAL thing, we will see the results the next following days.

I am a ILLEGAL inmigrant as well. I not proud of being it But I take responsability for it,

A week ago a talked to my wife about buying our airflight tickets back to Peru, we were so sad because of leaving our friends and our jobs after 5 years of living in america, when we decided to do this we were so secure and strongs like never before , my wife was looking for the inhalambric telephone to call to the travel agency for the tickets ,meanwhile I was praying inside me to my God to give me a sign to not to buy the tickets. When she gave me the phone I sat down in the couch and then suddenly I heard in Telemundo NEWS. " TPS for Peru" and that the petition was presented by the Cancilier. That was unbelivable I took it like the sign that GOD gives me to stay in america and wait for this way of legalization.

Then I was trying to explain this, and I didnt find any explanation. I just have to believe that there is  A GOD and if He decides for us there is nothing that we can do abouit IT>

Hopelly this TPS will be granted for all my people, I know wath is to live in the shadows and I dont want that anymore for anybody.

Thanks for all the people who support this TPS program . We need to keep helping the economy in our country , this is not a good moment to go back to peru. This is good moment to STAY IN AMERICA.

Thanks America for helping Peruvians !!!!

Vitor de Olarte

# Ronald C says :
4 September, 2007 [ 11:39 ]

Go to Univision, there is a huge forum called Sera Posible where
they give support for all the people's questions about TPS.

Godspeed.

# Ekeko says :
4 September, 2007 [ 12:56 ]

I think that we are wasting too much time writing about illegal immigration, a very complex, divisive and emotional subject.

The subject here is TPS. Let’s not lose sight of the real issue. The fact is that there are millions of foreigners with not a clear immigration status in the USA. Now there is a possibility that Peruvians can get a TPS status. It may, very well, that the US government will grant this status to Peruvians. The very same argument used to grant this status to Hondurans, Guatemalans and others could be applied to Peruvians. I really hope this happen. It is going to be a very good thing for many of our fellow Peruvians currently out of status. Why do some people get annoyed, or nervous, that this may actually happen? I don’t really get it. Good luck and let’s hope for the best.

# Victor says :
4 September, 2007 [ 13:37 ]

for all peruvians and american spanish speaking friends go to this huge forum:
Haga click abajo: y tambien deje sus comentarios

http://foro.univision.com/univision/board/
message?board.id=visas&message.id=3689&
view=by_date_ascending&page=56


Arriba el TPS

# Elena says :
4 September, 2007 [ 14:19 ]

I am appalled by the comments I have been reading protesting the protected status TPS program. Why are some groups of Peruvians so mean-spirited? Wouldn’t you be happy if every Peruvian living in the US could walk with their head up high and be counted as a “legal resident” of the US?  If they broke the law and stayed on after their visas expired, or if they crossed the border they probably did so out of desperation and fear: 1)    Fear of terrorism, come on guys, did you already forget about Sendero??

2)      Fear their children would be born in a country with limited economic resources

3)      Fear of poverty

  Etcetera, etcetera Please, don’t tell ME that you guys HAVE NEVER BROKEN A LAW? I am SURE you guys have paid a policeman when he stopped you on a street; I am sure maybe you conveniently forgot to include some income in your tax return.   Besides, the TPS just means that the country in question CANNOT absorb the return of all these folks.    Isn’t that the case now? I am Peruvian and proud of it, and I want to see the day where all Peruvians in the US can be counted, be able to vote, and walk with their heads up high. Please wake up and stop being such haters!!!! 

When the same thing happened in El Salvador, people rallied together, they didn’t attack each other. Please, let’s be civil, let’s show the world Peruvians are a strong, united, and civilized group.

# Naxi says :
4 September, 2007 [ 14:26 ]

TO Julio, dude!!! chill, what is with you, i think you are just jealous because you are not here and about to get benefit from the TPS, or maybe you are just crying because if peruvians do get the TPS, you wont get your visa, so come on tell us which one is it??? I dont see any other reason for you opposing the TPS since it is just gonna be given for those born or that have lived in the damaged areas.

# Ekeko says :
4 September, 2007 [ 14:33 ]

These are current statistics:

Table 1. Countries Whose Nationals in the United States Benefit from Temporary Protected Status

Country Status Dates

Estimated numbers :

Burundi TPS November 4, 1997 - November 2, 2006 30

El Salvador TPS March 2, 2001 - September 9, 2006 248,282

Honduras TPS December 30, 1998 - July 5, 2006 81,875

Liberia TPS March 27, 1991 - October 1, 2006 3,792

Nicaragua TPS December 30, 1998 - July 5, 2006 4,309

Somalia TPS September 16, 1991 - September 17, 2006 324

Sudan TPS November 4, 1997 - November 2, 2007 648

# Julio Caceres says :
4 September, 2007 [ 15:57 ]

http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4629-politics-
u.s.-president-bush---perus-president-garcia-to-
discuss-permit-for-undocumented-peruvians-in-the-u.s.

# souza says :
5 September, 2007 [ 16:00 ]

Who does want to live in one of the most violent , boring and kidnapping countries of the world , the United States.

2,500 people are kidnapped daily in U.S.A.

Most peruvian inmigrants have a house , job and a wife or husbund , and they yet want to go to the U.S.  to wash plates , moping floors , being harrased as criminals por being ilegals and being treated like crap.

# Randall says :
5 September, 2007 [ 18:46 ]

"Kidnapping country?"  Wow souza, where did you get that idea from?
What is your source that says 2500 people are kidnapped in the U.S. each year?  I have heard that a lot of kids are "kidnapped" - if you want to call it that - by fathers who are fighting with the mom over custody in a divorce...but thats not the same as a violent kidnapping...

I'm not saying that the U.S. is perfect and I am happy that you are patriotic/proud about Peru - as well you should be....but lets be accurate.

I do agree with you that many illegals here are not treated right.  There are prejudices everywhere...are the Indians always treated well in Peru?

# Willy Palomino says :
5 September, 2007 [ 18:53 ]

The worst enemy of a peruvian is another one.
Why people keep posting comments like "500k peruvians will take advantage from the TPS or only for those who have family in the affected cities"?
"Advantage" is a selfish comment from those especially peruvians. Maybe they just got here first! I am an illegal peruvian citizen living in U.S. and the TPS would come in very handy.
How ridiculous is try to check us if we have family in the affected cities and make sure we support them,... please!
Wheter there was an earthquake or not Peru is in crisis. 
More than 90% of peruvinas that  live in U.S. are not here because  they love to be far from those they love.
Peru unmenployment is around 56%, do you know what it means?
Most of illegal people do the  bottom jobs and the pay is just not worthy.
TPS for all peruvians will be more than wellcome if some people don't like it ... who cares?

# Willy Palomino says :
5 September, 2007 [ 19:00 ]

JULIO CACERES YOU SHOULD BURN IN HELL

# Angela says :
5 September, 2007 [ 21:18 ]

Souza,

Are you trying to say that is better to live in Peru than in the USA? pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Perhaps you have never met a professional like me that came here looking for a better future & a safe place to live in. Do you know how many successful Peruvian professionals live here that never needed to wash dishes or mop floors? And you know why? Coz WE got BRAINS!!!!!
Have you ever heard that in the Sales Industry, once they know you are Peruvian, they immediately hire you?
I'm very proud to be a Peruvian and very happy to live and work in the USA ....I feel so embarrassed when I have to read comments of ignorants like you......and JULIO CACERES!

# Alejandro SF says :
7 September, 2007 [ 11:37 ]

This is for you Julio Caceres!
I'm so Sorry men, for have some fun with your wife...but you dont' have to generalist to every undocument your feelins about me.
You Know me, I'm ILEGAL you know,pero te prometo que no lo vuelvo hacer mas con tu mujer...ella es la que me busca, por que dice que pasas mucho tiempo con la computadora escribiendo estupideces y que ella necesita la atencion que yo le doy...too Much BOOM BOOM!!!
She is HOT!!!!
Your friend Ilegal.
TPS FOR ALL PERUVIANS, CARAJO!!!!

# Jaime SF says :
7 September, 2007 [ 12:05 ]

LOL! Good one Alejandro. Your right Julio's wife is hot.

I remember when you went out to be with her because when you left that's when I was with your wife!! hahaha. She told me she needed the citizenship you couldn't give her.

Your friend the legal

¡Que viva el Peru!

# peloflex says :
7 September, 2007 [ 16:18 ]

To all,

I have just found out about this thread a few minutes ago.... what a bunch of mixed feelings I must say... I will do my best to describe all of these feelings as they were showing up.

First of all, I've got so confused after reading up on Julio Caceres's very first posted comment (he later changed many times his original point of view) but I had and still have a very though time trying to understand his reasoning... if there is any.

The big question in my head is "HOW WOULD THE SO CALLED TPS AFFECT YOU JULIO"???  Im sure you have an old friend from high school that has been here in the US as ilegal that you dont see in a decade... maybe he was your best friend and you will get to see him or her.... maybe he or she will bring you a t-shirt?.... come on man! think possitive!

For all your rest of insanity, the best I can tell you is "you have no clue of what's going on in here" ESTAS EL LA YECA, HERMANO! we dont run away from homeland security here... we pay high taxes, WE DIDN'T COME HERE TO INVADE... we support the US economy and I dont want to sound presumptous about my particular situation here, all I can tell you since you keep asking why did we leave our Peru? and why didnt we stay there?... Im just going to be very brief. I came here running away from the terrorist attacks of the shinning path, by then I was working as a field technician for a mining co. My job was considered to be a high end and well paid. I was making, believe it or not US$ 180.00 a month and I found my life was put at stage MANY times, since my job required me to do extensive traveling to the mining sites. I hope after reading up on this, you dont blame me for having to make the move and leave my beautiful country, family and friends.

Now, for me to do it the legal way and obey the law and do my paperwork. as you suggested... after 15 years that I have lived here... maybe I coudl be receiving my green card right now, If ever...

I think you should get the hint from all the people that is trying to open up your eyes and apologize for your words and thoughts. that would be the most honest thing to do.

Respectfuly,

peloflex

# peloflex says :
7 September, 2007 [ 17:09 ]

this one goes to PGOROS and LUCY URBAN,

Do you really want to learn the meaning of the word "invasion"???

look what the US has done and keeps doing in Irak... Lucy, you pretend to say that there are less and less hospitals and the services are getting affected by the illegal immigrants???? HA HA HA! you are so naive... do you have any idea how many billions of dollars is this NONSENSE costing to this country????

I totally back up AMERICORPS! you should learn so much of people like him.

STOP BEING GREEDY! ...

PGOROS, please explain this to me, how come if illegals are soooo bad and wrong... how come the US goverment was offering green cards to recruit new soldiers (illegals) to keep feeding the Army... this is the worst and most shameful example of how we the immigrants do the jobs that you guys refuse to do.

If the US would start sharing all of its power with the rest of the world, by stablishing more free trade agreements (FAIR ONES!) everyone would rather stay in their own country.... cause the wealth in the world would be more evenly distributed. I will never understand what good does it do for the US economy to have a fleet of billion heavy machinery units just sitting there for months and months filling parking lots.... when instead they could loan that machinery to third world countries to bring progress and growth... why not using those aircraft carriers that now are used to bring death to Irak to carry that machinery instead?.... Imagine how the world would love your country?.... imagine the billions of dollars that this country would save in homeland security ???

Maybe you guys could own a beautiful vacation property in the Sechura desert.... which of course wouldnt be a desert no more....

We have in our planet, PLENTY OF LAND!!!  we just need to get rid of the greed that rottens our lifes.

Peace out everyone!

peloflex

# Fano Caceres says :
8 September, 2007 [ 16:56 ]

The cool thing about this "virtual world" is that we all can express opinions and agree/disagree anytime.

Julio Caceres (no relation, although my Dad's name is Julio as well) has an opinion anf if you all agree/disagree so be it. 

TPS can be a temporary answer but is not a solution.  Look at the Liberians.  Their TPS status  will expire soon and because of the current estability and democracy in that nation many will have to be deported "legally."  

I went back to Peru to work and my tourist VISA expired in 12 months  I had to leave the country to get it renew. Not easy to get work Visas in Peru, did you know that?.  My father is Peruvian and I still did not have a chance.  I was forced to return home.  

I am glad my father came to the USA if I would ve been born there I would ve never had the same opportunities I enjoy here.

By the way, Thanks for your opinions you all have my respects.

Que Viva El Peru!!

# LUCY URBAN says :
8 September, 2007 [ 17:06 ]

You can talk all you want, call names, ect, ect, why is the reason you all get so upset at us , because we don't share your ideas ? an for peloflex, Yes is planty of land, all over the world !! by the way am not a greedy person nor "rotting" your life an anyway, you don't like to hear the real true. For the "gentlemans" talking about Julio's wife, how low  could you guys go ?? is this is the way you are acting when you don't get your "way"? you are showing your true colors, incredible ! 

# peloflex says :
8 September, 2007 [ 18:58 ]

Lucy,

I have just told you the real truth, I have just given you the real reason why there is shortage in hospitals and services.... and apparently you have just ignored what I said.... how convenient!

And no, I have never accused you of being greedy; what I said and I insist once again is that you came in here to give an opinion which I consider to be completely away from being true. Before I was able to go through the legalization process just a few years back, I was already paying between 26 to 30 thousand a year in taxes..!!! how can that affect the US economy??? I dont get it... that amount is what many legal people make here in a whole year. So go back to wherever you are getting your numbers and straighten yourself up. dont speak out of emmotions. speak with the truth!

And one last thing, we are here talking specificaly about peruvian immigrants... and we are definitely not 12 millions.

flex

# LUCY URBAN says :
9 September, 2007 [ 12:48 ]

I was an I'm still talking about all illegals in general! I never say we have 12millions of illegals peruvians an any way , I know what am talking about, since you're an expert on Inmigration status an all the related subject, am sure you'll be helping the ones in trouble with Inmigration, also that is the main reason too many people are dying trying to cross the borders, not only Mexicans, but also from different countries, am sure you know this statistics about how many already die, am assumed,
if this poor people who die would it had the permit to enter the USA nothing like this could ever happened to them, it is so unfortunately .

Fano Caceres,  is a gentleman that respect the opinions of others, with out insulting anyone. 
 

# Claudia says :
12 September, 2007 [ 21:48 ]

It's a joke to say that Peruvians should stay in Peru, and spend their energy on finding a job there, when we know it's almost impossible to do so. And, if you do find one, you get paid how much? $100 a month?

Personally I think that the TPS itself is a "funny" law, but if it's there and some people can use it to regularize their situation...why not use it?

# americorps says :
13 September, 2007 [ 06:53 ]

I generally find the strongest anti-immigrant activist live a life of privelage and do not worry about feeding their children.

The wealthy elite looking down on the poor and judging their lives has never set well with me.

# pgoros says :
13 September, 2007 [ 18:20 ]

Peloflex, why is it that you and many of the others defend the granting of a TPS by running around in circles instead of just admitting one simple fact: if someone is illegally living in another country, is it breaking the law or not? That's the ONLY point I'm trying to make. Where do military issues suddenly come into play?

To be honest I don't give a s*** what Americans do about the TPS, whether they recruit illegal citizens as soldiers, whatever. I'm not American and glad not to be. But that's neither here nor there, the one and only question I have (and which you and others don't want to answer with a 'yes' or 'no') is: is it against the law to live in a country illegally?

Yes, I understand that some ran away from the terrorists; yes I understand that some left to find better job opportunities; yes I understand that some left to live in a safer environment. But that doesn't make an illegal act into a legal one.

Several years ago, I had my driver's license suspended because I didn't pay my speeding tickets. One night, a friend wanted to drive his drunk self home from a bar. The idiot didn't want to take a taxi or bus, he insisted that his car went home with him. So, I took a chance and drove him home, but on the way I got pulled over by a spot check and they nailed me for not having a driver's license. I went to court to explain that my logic at the time was it was better to drive sober without a license that to have a drunk risking his life and others' behind the wheel. The judge said "the law's the law... $5000 fine". To make matters worse, I got a black mark on my driving record and ended up paying $3000 or more for insurance every year for the next 5 years instead of $400 like I used to.

Even though I thought I had good reasons for my actions, the bottom line was what I did was wrong, and I paid for it. Get it?

# Julio Caceres says :
13 September, 2007 [ 18:32 ]

It's a pleasure to read your comment pgoros. Very clear and to the point. Excellent example. You are absoulutely right, that is the bottom line. Everyone is crying and moaning about their oh so difficult situation and the poor illegal immigrants... But, like you said, IGNORING the point.

# Ekeko says :
13 September, 2007 [ 19:22 ]

Pgoros and Caceres are both wrong. The subject here is not illegal immigration. The subject is whether will TPS be granted to Peruvians or not.
TPS, as it has been well put by someone else, is a funny law. Does not make much sense to me. But even that is not the point. The point is than Peruvians could end up getting it.
I wish TPS is granted to all Peruvians living in the US.
People that want to rant about Illegal immigration should go and find more appropriate venues. This is not it.
To Pgoros and Caceres I advice to go, read and donate money to hate anti-immigration sites like: www.steinreport.com you will enjoy the reading there.

# Ekeko says :
13 September, 2007 [ 19:23 ]

Pgoros and Caceres are both wrong. The subject here is not illegal immigration. The subject is whether will TPS be granted to Peruvians or not.
TPS, as it has been well put by someone else, is a funny law. Does not make much sense to me. But even that is not the point. The point is than Peruvians could end up getting it.
I wish TPS is granted to all Peruvians living in the US.
People that want to rant about Illegal immigration should go and find more appropriate venues. This is not it.
To Pgoros and Caceres I advice to go, read and donate money to hate anti-immigration sites like: www.steinreport.com you will enjoy the reading there.

# Fano Caceres says :
13 September, 2007 [ 23:46 ]

Pgors..great example.. Sooner or later we pay for our actions.  Breal the law and consequences follow.  In Virtual Environments like this ones  we will always find people who try very hard to make a point but do no try to understand others.  You and my "tio" Julio are right so as the other participants... our perspectives are different.

Thanks for making this forum alive

# pgoros says :
14 September, 2007 [ 07:16 ]

Ekeko, you still miss the point, probably because you can't be objective nor can you accept an objective viewpoint if it doesn't jive with your own.

The subject here IS illegal immigration. The article deals with the possible granting of this to who? Illegal immigrants, that's who? I ask again, is being an illegal immigrant breaking the law or not? Answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no' please.

As for your cute reference to the hate site (a common response from someone who doesn't have a leg to stand on over the actual issue), my wife is peruvian with strong black and asian physical characteristics. Do you think I married her so that I'd have a reason to stroll around the house in a white cape and hood? Puhleeze, get off your silly racism or anti-immigration stance, you just end up looking foolish. I'm not racist nor anti-immigration (except for the illegal kind, which I do oppose thank you very much)!

Someone above (americorps and some others?) defended illegal immigration by suggesting that if all those people were deported, the American economy would sink. Instead of nodding your head in agreement just because it provides an excuse, how about we consider all the students who can't find part-time jobs and those on welfare who sit on their butts claiming there's no work anywhere for them. How many legal US citizens fall in this group (students/welfare bums) versus the number of illegal immigrants working for minimum wage under the table??? I'm sure the economy would work itself out quite well actually, maybe the average citizen would also pay less taxes to support unemployment as a result.

To finish off, allow me to give you one more experience I had recently, not as an example of my "you screw up, you pay" stance, but rather why I think you guys never want to accept something that's clearly a black and white issue:

I went to polvos azules to buy a 4gb memory card for my camera. When I found one, I asked the seller to write on the receipt that the card was not a fake, and that if I checked up on it and found that it was actually a fake, I could bring it back no questions asked. He agreed and mentioned that his store gives a 3-month money back guarantee for defective stuff. Great!

When I got home, I put the card in the camera. It worked, but slower than I expected, and definitely didn't give me 4gb of images. I went on the internet to check the card's serial number, found out it was in fact a chinese fake. So I took the card back on the same day.

When I told the seller that his cards are fakes, he first gave me the usual surprised look (as if I wouldn't recognize this act after spending 6 years in Peru). I told him to check out the serial number for himself online, but he didn't want to (obviously because that'd prove beyond doubt the card's authenticity). Instead, he wanted to trade it for another one, even though I explained to him that ALL his memory cards were fakes.

After a dozen excuses why the card could not possibly be a fake, I simply said "look, I don't want this card. It doesn't work, it's not as advertised, it's not even the real thing. Refund me or I'll talk to the cops." So he opens the till, whips out his wallet and empties his pockets. He was about $20 short. He offered to refund me, minus $20, then had the balls to say it would be the fee for *his* trouble. So I suggested he pay for my taxi, since I had to take it twice because of his fake cards, and if anyone's time was being wasted over this, it certainly wasn't his! He continued, literally begging me at that point to let him off the hook for $20. Huhhhh??? He knowingly sells me a fake memory card and now he wants a handsome tip for it???

Anyway, I got my refund after he went to borrow money from another vendor, but the thing that really irritated me was that in his mind, it's as if all this was my own fault and responsibility, and anything that he may have done wrong was somehow justified (no matter how stupid the excuses were).

What the example is trying to point out is that for an issue that's simply a black and white one, there's always someone trying to make excuses for being in the wrong. If excuses don't work, then they resort to character assasination, and in the case of this TPS debate, it's being done by calling the other person a racist in one way or another.

Cute. But don't expect me to buy any of it.

(PS - don't buy memory stick cards at polvos azules. They're almost all fakes even though the vendors will deny it)

# americorps says :
14 September, 2007 [ 09:07 ]

I think it is very short sighted to see a very complex world in terms of black and white

and I think it is inhumane to sit and judge a parent who is wondering where his child's next meal is coming from in such simple terms.

The answers in this life are almost always more shades of gray.

We need a humane approach to ending illegal immigration, an inhumane approach is neither American no moral.

# pgoros says :
14 September, 2007 [ 10:13 ]

I don't disagree with you, americorps, regarding finding solutions to immigration and policies. There are some (and may I add many from countries far worse off than Peru who have never received squat) that depending on the situation, really ought to be helped. I don't dispute that. But there are downsides too and I could give you an example (yet another one I know ;)) of where it was necessary (and correct) for some countries to basically further enforce their borders and toughen their immigration policies, due to increase in crime (sorry, it was what it was). Tell me if you want to read about it but I warn you, it'll be a harsh one to swallow.

Hmmm, black and white and all those little gray shades in between, I'm sorry but there's no gray shades to my question, and I will ask it yet once again: is an illegal immigrant breaching law? Yes or no? "It depends" is not an acceptable answer, this is without doubt a black and white question. Easy to answer, come on!

Now, if you want to skip past that important question and delve into the reasons for someone jumping borders, then of course I do sympathise with some that really didn't have a choice but to get out of their own country. As I said, I *do* understand. But first answer the above question, because the answer determines which of the gray-shade arguments above have some validity or are plain ridiculous if not utterly selfish.

But tell me something: how much has this topic been debated here, how many articles were published here about illegal immigration woes, BEFORE the earthquake? Come on, if most of the posters here really have such dire issues about their legal status, I would've appreciated hearing from them long before a natural disaster gave them the opportunity to start moaning about this and try to take advantage of the TPS at the expense of 500+ victims and thousands of currently homeless persons in Ica. Save me the excuses.

PS - no rebuttal regarding availability of low-paying jobs for students/unemployed if all working illegal persons were deported?

# Jaime Bustamante says :
14 September, 2007 [ 11:35 ]

Bravoooooooo pgoros. It's good that there are people that still believe in right and wrong in this world.

# Americorps says :
14 September, 2007 [ 12:36 ]

For it to be as simple as you keep trying to make it, you have to continue to pretent that...

US Corporations have not set-up opportunities and even recruited illegal immigrants

the words EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES did not exist as a legal definition

the US had never set the precedent for fastracking illegal immigrants as legal immigrants

I also consider it racist to only blame crime on illegal immigrants and discuss nothing about the fact that crim amung illegal immigrants (other than the crossing the border crime) is much lower in percentages than crimes of Americans against other Americans.  I can math you ten horror stories per your one.

No, your approach is, at best, nieve and lacking facts and humanity.  Law, politics, can not be without compassion and humanity or we all fail.

# pgoros says :
14 September, 2007 [ 12:47 ]

Jaime, Fano, Julio, thanks and kudos back at you all: It's nice to know that common sense still prevails for some people ;)

Let's just have a quick look at the TPS, as defined by the US Immigration Act of 1990:

"a procedure by which the Attorney General may provide TPS to aliens in the United States who are temporarily unable to safely return to their home country because of ongoing armed conflict, an environmental disaster, or other extraordinary and temporary conditions."

The ONLY part of the TPS that would even remotely make illegal peruvians eligible to receive it is "environmental disaster". Seeing how in relation to all of Peru, only a fairly small piece of it was affected by the earthquake, I fail to understand how anyone could possibly be "temporarily unable to safely return to their home country". As far as I know, the airport in Callao is functioning just fine and receiving international flights daily.

What can I conclude?... the only "unsafe" part of returning to your home country is the fact that you'd have to let yourself get busted first for being an illegal immigrant.

One of you illegals enlighten me here, please, with your pro-TPS stance. If you can't, then at least raise your hand if you have family in Ica...

# alan says :
14 September, 2007 [ 13:50 ]

americorps = apologistic fool

# americorps says :
14 September, 2007 [ 15:46 ]

Alan,

Considering your repeated quotes from known white supremecist, the several lies you have presented as truths and the generall trolling nature you present, there is absolutely nothing legitimate about you.

I find those alligned with Nazis and White Supremecest to be the very worst society has to offer, your only value is as a terrible example to others.

# LUCY URBAN says :
14 September, 2007 [ 20:03 ]

Must be tiresome for the people that are tryng to convince the rest that it is OK to be in a country with no legal status, no matter where you're coming from , Illegal is Illegal, Racism is a different topic, wich no one opposing your ideas have mention anything about "Racism" the few not sharing your believes, we all are horrible people according to you all .
What are you teaching the young generation,that is OK to be dishonest no matter the cause ? please, be more realistic and teach good will to the rest, instead of teaching the ease way out !!!

# americorps says :
14 September, 2007 [ 21:17 ]

Lucy, you did not twice quote known NAZI's and White Supremecists, Alan has.

# Zu says :
14 September, 2007 [ 21:39 ]

pgoros, after 6 years in Peru you should know better than buying stuff in polvos azules, expecting them to be the real thing. (If you knew the chances, wouldn't this be illegal?)
Peru was (or is) a mess, that's the main reason for illegals to be here. Not a excuse, a fact.
If you ask me if it is right to abuse the TPS, I say no. Personally, I believe the rules of the TPS should change, and really be granted to people in worse situations.
But, the law is there, and if all these people can regularize their situation, why not?
That will be half million people registered, people that can be tracked, they will be paying taxes (although most of them do already- yeah, taxes are deducted directly from the paychecks - a fact that some don't want to realize), and getting better jobs so students and welfare abusers can get the lower paid ones (if they actually want to work, but that's another story).

# zu says :
14 September, 2007 [ 21:55 ]

I know this is mostly about the TPS for Peru, but one more thing, if anti-illegal-immigration groups are not racist, why they only mention illegal Latin American people (or Mexican, since that's how they call all Latin Americans), and we don't hear a word about illegals Irish or Eastern Europeans.
Apparently all illegals are Mexicans....

Just a thought.

# peloflex says :
14 September, 2007 [ 22:15 ]

Pgross!

Why dont you go back to polvos azules and get yourself and "WHITE AND SHINNY CERAMIC 3 METERS TALL PEDESTAL" and go home and stand on it all day long.... so you can continue to look at us from your almighty roof that you live in.

You have cited my comments with absolute innacuracy! I have never, not even metioned the TPS.... all I did was to protest against that guy Caceres who appeared as he was better than everybody just cause he has never found himself being an illegal living in US.

Now my question to you is... if you are not a born peruvian.... and neither are you born in the US.... why the heck did you come and said anything here in this post in the first place???? are you the kind of person that just dies to live in dissagreement?... are you a natural born politician???...  man you sound like my borther... I should hook you guys up... cause seriously I have no time for this.. I have a business to run... and last but not least... Im sorry about your peruvian wife... I can only imagine how is that strong black and asian mixture working out for you... man! you should have gone to the north of the country and get a good and pure "chola nortena" ... you wouldnt need to come here and destill so much anger...  maybe you still have time to find happiness.

I hope you do.

Dr. Flex

# Ekeko says :
14 September, 2007 [ 22:45 ]

There we go again, and let's see if I can make myself clear.
The subject matter is: "Peru: 500 Thousand Undocumented Peruvians in U.S. could Benefit from TPS". It is about TPS that could benefit 500 thousand undocumented Peruvians. It is not about whether TPS is just or not, It is not about whether why is anyone illegal or not. It is about the possibility of TPS applied to Peruvians due to the earthquake. As simple as that.  Now, there is a group of people going after the undocumented Peruvians, do you guys feel good while trying to put them down?, to me that’s sick. If you find yourself feeling good about someone else tragedy you are sick. Go try venting your disease elsewhere.  To those you that see the world in black and white, in legal or illegal and accept the status quo, beware. You could have the right stuff to be the perfect slave or slave master. You may be accepting the status quo due to feelings of inferiority or due to trying to exploit a position of advantage. Have you ever read the annals of debates in US Congress as to the arguments used by the people trying to perpetuate slavery? You can throw up by reading all that…..”It is condition inherent to humanity” “It has happen since the beginning of the times” “It’s written in the bible” “there are superior races” and so on and so forth. I see more humanity in my dog than in any of those SOB’s arguing all that nonsense.  
Pgoros can't probably understand any of this since he hasn’t been able to figure out Polvos Azules yet. How much time do you need to get it right? By the way, I am selling a piece of Plaza San Martin are you interested?  Another thing, I have not called anyone a racist. If you happen to be one, I feel sorry for you and that is all I can do. If your wife is half Inka and half Marcian is fine with me. I have said, however, that you may find coincidences in your approach to the issue of undocumented people and that of some hate loving, racist and radical websites. Go read through the website, I referred you to, and you’ll find yourself right at home, but again I am not calling you a racist. 

Finally, I wish that TPS is granted to all undocumented Peruvians in the US and that they prosper and help their fellow Peruvians back at home.

# americorps says :
15 September, 2007 [ 00:17 ]

All hail Hitler, I love nazis.  they are my friends and commrades.

# americorps says :
15 September, 2007 [ 01:13 ]

Alan,

I hope you have no children, you would be a terrible father.  You are nothing.

# Kiwi support for the Peruvian People & other Cultu says :
15 September, 2007 [ 01:49 ]

Greeting to All.Hola ,ola: First of all I,m not here to make judgement on any one or of what has been expressed by all,as i see that you ses all show validity to topic of importance shared amongst you ses all to what your feeling are or maybe.

 Times have changed and are still changing and we need to acknowledge and build a better understanding of what,where and who we are,as people to build a better future,for the present and future of us all, that is and can be achieved to enjoy life,be friend,shared the experiences that life offer s & create a guidence for the many generation that follow forth from us and into time.

The changes we make today,will be for the betterment for tommorrow. Don't live in the past,move forward.Be proud of who you are,Make things right for all,as to making this world a better place to live in. Make human feelings rule your heart and who you are ( not power,control,greed)
 
Don't forget when,you leave this world,you can't take the problems with you,you will be just leaving it unsolved,the world (generations created) will just turn to,[Insecurity,poverty,War] all set down by our hands for the lack  of not wanting to  do what is right.

Do the right thing for humanity  ( one day,if not already) these people would take theirs shirts off their backs to shelter those in need,maybe even you.

Don't mix s politic with Humanitarian Issue of the need to Survive.

 By the way people is am not a Revend/ Priest.

My support is with the TPS for the betterment of the situation deeply needed to be acknowledge for the Peruvian People in USA and for people in their home lands.
 Give these people the Symplistic Right to be Acknowledged as a Culture of People to be  proud to share your homes with and country.

Don't forget Americans don't own the Land they claim & stand on.
They are only guardians.

Remember, changes will happen,lets do this for the respectful reasons meant to be.

Again thanks for your time & patient to read

Gracias Adios  Rev _ NZ

# pgoros says :
15 September, 2007 [ 07:49 ]

@ Zu:

pgoros, after 6 years in Peru you should know better than buying stuff in polvos azules, expecting them to be the real thing.

Oh man, what are you telling me? That you've NEVER been to polvos azules and bought something there? You think I don't know what the deal is there? Even if you view me as some naive foreigner who doesn't know about the place after 6 years, then please explain the thousands of gullible peruvians who shop there every day, and who buy things there without the slightest clue as to their authenticity? I'd say 6 years isn't too bad in comparison, but I understand your need to raise an irrelevant point, 'cause you don't seem to have one otherwise ;)

(If you knew the chances, wouldn't this be illegal?)

Sure it would! And you bring up an excellent viewpoint: "when in rome, do as the romans do"... in peru, illegal is the norm (music, videos, clothes, electronics, things stolen and resold through retailers)... so what the hell, if it's that easy and so ignored by the law there, then who cares? On the other hand, this kind of market wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere, neither would the mentality that it promotes: that illegal acts are excuseable or fine as long as you don't get busted.

Peru was (or is) a mess, that's the main reason for illegals to be here. Not a excuse, a fact.

Maybe, but in my opinion that's not the reason MOST of them are there. If you say it's a fact, then prove it.

If you ask me if it is right to abuse the TPS, I say no. Personally, I believe the rules of the TPS should change, and really be granted to people in worse situations.

Look, I'm not disputing or really agreeing with this part, but I really don't believe that the majority of illegal peruvians fled from danger or starvation. If you agree that abusing the TPS is wrong, then how can you argue this issue, where you have to be a moron not to realize that that's exactly what's going on as a result from the earthquake, that's all. If it wasn't for that, you and I wouldn't be debating this right now.

But, the law is there, and if all these people can regularize their situation, why not?

Sure, if the law ends up allowing it, fine, I'm not like others here who wants to dispute the law just because it doesn't benefit me. But don't complain if you see tighter border security as a result, as well as an increase of people trying to sneak through the border, thinking they'll get the TPS. And of course, again this'll be the group that'll ruin it all, all over again, for those that are trying to enter the US legally.

There's a reason why Peru has a major black mark in most countries when it comes to granting visas. Be a little objective when you think about why that is... and why countries like Chile and Argentina get easy access to Europe, for example, even though they too have had their fair share of cruel politics, environmental and economic disasters.

# pgoros says :
15 September, 2007 [ 08:04 ]

@ Zu, again:

if anti-illegal-immigration groups are not racist, why they only mention illegal Latin American people

How can you define someone who has no problem whatsoever with legal immigrants (regardless of race or religion) but who does have a problem with illegal immigrants (regardless of race or religion), as a racist???

Puhleeez! Give this angle a rest already! Or shall we talk about labels such as cholo, chino, gringo? Hmmm, where do those labels routinely get used again....?

(or Mexican, since that's how they call all Latin Americans)

Sounds like you're just making another assumption. Sure, there are plenty (and I mean PLENTY) of Americans who are too ignorant and uneducated to have a half-mature thought (some can't even find their own state on a US map), but I don't see anyone here saying all latin americans are mexicans. Why are you grasping away here and trying to deflect from the actual topic?

and we don't hear a word about illegals Irish or Eastern Europeans.

Well if the subject was about illegal Irish getting a TPS because of a bad potato season in their home country, I'm sure we'd be talking about them too then, wouldn't we?

Apparently all illegals are Mexicans....

Apparently. To you?

# pgoros says :
15 September, 2007 [ 08:36 ]

@ peloflex:

Why dont you go back to polvos azules and get yourself and "WHITE AND SHINNY CERAMIC 3 METERS TALL PEDESTAL" and go home and stand on it all day long

Sigh. More meaningless chain-yanking. Ok, I'll play...

so you can continue to look at us from your almighty roof that you live in.

Not that I'm anything like that but I suppose it would help if I were, wouldn't it, so that you can play the hapless victim role more convincingly?

You have cited my comments with absolute innacuracy!

Absolute innacuracy my a$$.

I have never, not even metioned the TPS....

Exactly! That's why I said you were just running around waving your arms over everything BUT the actual topic. And here you are, trying to do it again.

all I did was to protest against that guy Caceres who appeared as he was better than everybody just cause he has never found himself being an illegal living in US.

Why?? Because he prefers to live by the rules, whatever those rules may be? And you protest that, indirectly of course by saying he came across as a snob (how convenient!) so therefore he must automatically be wrong?

Now my question to you is... if you are not a born peruvian.... and neither are you born in the US.... why the heck did you come and said anything here in this post in the first place????

It's a free-access message system. Are you saying I'm not eligible to state my thoughts here? Isn't that kind of racist of you?

seriously I have no time for this..

Hey man, then don't waste your valuable time replying to me here.

Im sorry about your peruvian wife...

Why did I know this was coming...? Soooo typical of people like you, congrats on your consistency!

I can only imagine how is that strong black and asian mixture working out for you... man!

It's working out very well, thanks! Don't be jealous.

you should have gone to the north of the country and get a good and pure "chola nortena"

There you go with those racist comments again! But to answer, an ex was from there. Too needy for my tastes. I prefer confident people.

 ... you wouldnt need to come here and destill so much anger...  maybe you still have time to find happiness.

I'm very happy, thanks. Come and visit us some time for a few beers on my nice balcony. But make sure you get a valid visa first and don't stay past its expiry, or you won't be able to come again.

So there you go. How do you like getting pointless answers to your pointless questions?

# pgoros says :
15 September, 2007 [ 09:08 ]

There we go again, and let's see if I can make myself clear.

Yes, I really wish you would.

The subject matter is: "Peru: 500 Thousand Undocumented Peruvians in U.S. could Benefit from TPS". It is about TPS that could benefit 500 thousand undocumented Peruvians.

Ahhhhh! OK, I get it.... *undocumented* Peruvians! Not *illegal* Peruvians. Wow, didn't realize there was a difference.

It is about the possibility of TPS applied to Peruvians due to the earthquake. As simple as that.

True. Now tell me, does an earthquake that disrupted life in only a relatively small portion of the country mean that *undocumented* Peruvians can't somehow return home? I think this will be the question asked when it's time for the decision to be made whether to grant the TPS or not.

Now, there is a group of people going after the undocumented Peruvians, do you guys feel good while trying to put them down?, to me that’s sick.

No, it's not about putting anyone down, however it is about pointing out that life is harsh if you can't obey rules, so suck it up, princess.

If you find yourself feeling good about someone else tragedy you are sick.

What tragedy? The tragedy of someone having to pay the price for entering another country illegally? The tragedy of the earthquake? Can't be that, since the victims of that are IN Peru!

I won't quote your 'slavery' speech since that goes radically off into left field somewhere and ends in gibberish.

Pgoros can't probably understand any of this since he hasn’t been able to figure out Polvos Azules yet.

Well, let's start a polvos azules message thread then, and we can talk about the thousands of native Peruvians shopping there on a daily basis all their lives. At least I know what I'm buying, even if I decide to chance it sometimes. The example of polvos azules wasn't about uninformed shoppers, by the way, it was about the dishonest attitude that's prevalent in Peru, even in business. You refuse to debate that part though, eh? Convenient.

By the way, I am selling a piece of Plaza San Martin are you interested?

How about I trade you for a fake passport and green card? I know many of you guys are pretty keen to pay for that kind of stuff. Hey, how about a fake law diploma? I can see why you couldn't get a real one.

Another thing, I have not called anyone a racist. If you happen to be one, I feel sorry for you and that is all I can do.

Ahh yes, let's keep that alive as long as possible in the debate. Hey, as long as one side is labelled as racist, then they MUST be on the wrong side by default, right? No matter how dumb the other side's argument might be.

Just like G. Bush getting his was by labelling all Iraqis terrorists... dumb people will believe almost anything.

I have said, however, that you may find coincidences in your approach to the issue of undocumented people and that of some hate loving, racist and radical websites.

A stupid statement. If I have a preference for Amstel beer and so does the president of the Ku Klux Klan, am I automatically a racist? I can be anti-illegal-immigration and NOT be a racist at the same time. Go research that a little and get back to me.

Go read through the website, I referred you to, and you’ll find yourself right at home, but again I am not calling you a racist.

If you think I'll find myself right at home at that website, then I can conclude that you are in fact calling me a racist. Let's stop with the hypocrisy, ok, and start using your brain a little?

# Ekeko says :
15 September, 2007 [ 10:58 ]

Good Morning everyone. I woke up and read a bunch of pgoros nonsense again. I feel obligated to contribute with ideas to clear obscure concepts and contribute to the argument as to why I wish that TPS is granted to all Peruvians living undocumented in the Unites States. Today I have to go to work so I’ll try to be concise and precise.

Yes, the Subject Matter of this thread is TPS. It is not “illegal immigration”, and not if TPS is just or not. “500 thousand Peruvians could benefit from TPS” that’s it.

Historically TPS has been applied loosely. Neither Honduras nor Guatemala, for example, were totally affected by the Mitch hurricane. TPS was applied to them and their nationals have benefited from it greatly. Now Peru has had an earthquake and it might get TPS granted to Peruvians in the US. Why lobby so forcefully against it? What is your agenda? Are you sick minded? Mean? Dumb? Do you have an agenda you don’t want to share with us? Are you Chilean? That could explain it.

Since many people here are beating on the undocumented workers from the comfort of their homes, and spite of the fact that is in an off-topic, I will only say that: YES, there is a difference between the phrase “illegal alien” and “undocumented worker”. The phrase “illegal alien”, now widely used, is a put-down word aimed at inflicting fear and despair amongst the undocumented workers. But notice that the work “illegal” is used only for the “alien” not anyone else. Check this out:  An “illegal Alien” works “illegally” in an “illegal Job” supplied by an “illegal employer” that pretends not to know it while paying the least possible wage. The employer benefits from the hard work of this “illegal worker” and makes “illegal profits” that helps them pay “illegal contributions” to their local Representatives and Senators that get elected. In turn the Representatives and Senators will do whatever it takes to keep the Status Quo as is because is a huge business. In the mean time the “illegal worker” that does not have health insurance gets its emergency health services from hospitals, the hospital over-charges the “illegal worker”, the bill doesn’t get paid and then the state has to come up with the money to keep the hospital working. Now, hospital is out of control, they charge whatever they want, which as whole different problem and the blame goes right into the “illegal worker”. So there is a money shift from the estate to the “illegal employer” that massive amount of money shift happens only because the Status Quo is preserved. I forgot to mention that the “illegal alien” pays not only consumption taxes but federal and state taxes as well. The “illegal Alien” pays unemployment insurance benefits, yet can not draw benefits from it. The “illegal alien” is the best business there is. The US can fix the “illegal alien” problem in less than a month, but the economic consequences could be so dire that no one will attempt to do it. This is the reality Mr. Pgoros, don’t suffer needlessly and tell me who is the one taking advantage of whom in this scenario. My reference to slavery was not a mistake, it applies because we are facing a case of “Modern Slavery” that is not “legal” at the present time but that has already been presented in its legal form in the Bush’s approach to solve the immigration problem that by creating a legal SECOND CLASS CITIZEN. This is a very un-American approach that I am confident will never happen.

Again I am not calling anybody a racist. But think about this. If your line of reasoning coincides with those of whom who really are, and are proud of it, think about it. You may be a closeted one. I am talking about thought patterns not your taste for beer or ice cream. Your thinking is what matters.

I have to go. Good luck everyone.

# chris says :
15 September, 2007 [ 13:00 ]

 Strongly agree with  Ekeko. illegal aliens need to be legalized , so they can pay taxes , pay health insurances and be able to buy properties and contribute to our "national"  economy.

Preserving the status quo just benefits the big corporations and goes against the middle class in America.

Granting TPS to 500k peruvian is a good way to start , then we can support the comprehensive immigration reform.

By the way the last thing I know about it, is that the TPS is going to be approved this coming week by Homeland security.

# Angela says :
15 September, 2007 [ 13:56 ]

Chris,

You said..."By the way the last thing I know about it, is that the TPS is going to be approved this coming week by Homeland security."

Could you please document your source of this information.  Please attach a website where I can verify this.  Thanks

# pgoros says :
15 September, 2007 [ 13:56 ]

I feel obligated to contribute with ideas to clear obscure concepts and contribute to the argument as to why I wish that TPS is granted to all Peruvians living undocumented in the Unites States.

Yes, you know better than anyone what it's all about. Listen to Ekeko everyone, he's right because... well, because he says so.

Yes, the Subject Matter of this thread is TPS. It is not “illegal immigration”

The TPS exists to deal with what then? Legal immigrants? Natives? People's pets? If you bring up TPS, you are in fact talking about illegal immigrants, no?... er, sorry, *undocumented* immigrants, my bad (rolls eyes).

Why lobby so forcefully against it? What is your agenda? Are you sick minded? Mean? Dumb? Do you have an agenda you don’t want to share with us?

That's exactly what you want to believe, isn't it... that I'm lobbying against it? Because that's the only way you can present any sort of argument. Except you're mistaken. I'm not against it, I just don't think most *undocumented* Peruvians living in the USA deserve the break because I highly doubt that the majority of them are seriously affected by the earthquake.

Are you Chilean? That could explain it.

I take great offense at your racist, stereotypical remark.

YES, there is a difference between the phrase “illegal alien” and “undocumented worker”.

Ummm, make up your mind. Are they undocumented immigrants, undocumented workers, illegal immigrants, illegal aliens, or what?

The phrase “illegal alien”, now widely used, is a put-down word aimed at inflicting fear and despair amongst the undocumented workers.

Yes, because we should in fact be encouraging border jumpers by referring to them as *undocumented*... how about we just call them *tourists*, that sounds a lot nicer even.

I skipped replying to your next big paragraph because it's just too much fantasy and talking in circles again, sorry.

This is the reality Mr. Pgoros, don’t suffer needlessly and tell me who is the one taking advantage of whom in this scenario.

Right! Instead we should welcome all illegals with open arms, offer them a discounted education, heck, let's put them up in a 5-star hotel while we look for a nice free house for them in the suburbs! Are you serious? Perhaps the illegal persons are being taken advantage of but hey, no one held a gun to their head and forced them to cross the border in the first place.

In case you didn't know, my friend, even legal persons get taken advantage of all the time. Are you ready to defend those people too? Or only your countrymen, regardless of how wrong their actions were?

My reference to slavery was not a mistake, it applies because we are facing a case of “Modern Slavery” that is not “legal” at the present time but that has already been presented in its legal form in the Bush’s approach to solve the immigration problem that by creating a legal SECOND CLASS CITIZEN. This is a very un-American approach that I am confident will never happen.

Again, where's the gun pointing at their heads, forcing them into this supposed slavery? African slaves were captured against their will, thrown on boats and transported to America (and some even to Peru, let's not forget that one), and made to work long and hard for nothing. That wasn't nice. But I don't ever recall an *undocumented* Peruvian being woken out of his bed in Lima one night, placed on a boat headed for Miami or NY, and then forced to work washing dishes under the table for peanuts. Big difference, no? No one forced anyone of these people into the situation they got themselves in. Their situation began the moment they stepped over that border, don't point the finger just at the people who take advantage of the illegal person's predicament after the fact.

Again I am not calling anybody a racist.

Sure, sure you're not. How many bigotted remarks or suggestions have you already shot my way alone?

But think about this. If your line of reasoning coincides with those of whom who really are, and are proud of it, think about it. You may be a closeted one. I am talking about thought patterns not your taste for beer or ice cream. Your thinking is what matters.

More halucinogenic opinions in a futile attempt to make yourself right and smart, I see. What's next? I'm Pizzaro's bastard cross-dressing great-great-great-great grandson (half-Chileno too) who raises pigs somewhere outside of Lima?

# LUCY URBAN says :
15 September, 2007 [ 20:14 ]

Americorps, don't you get tired of talking of the same old stuff ? please! that's all you have in your defense ? if the ones not sharing your sentiment we're belong to the White Supremecist and so an. You can't think of anything better to say, please !
 

# Alejandro SF says :
15 September, 2007 [ 20:47 ]

Send yours....suport TPS for Peruvians...
Click here and send...
Envia tu carta y apoya ya estamos casi para lograrlo,apoyanos y deja de contestar y leer a los perdedores...
Arriba el TPS...!!!!

http://www.perutps.com/Formulario.htm

# zu says :
15 September, 2007 [ 21:22 ]

I'm sure the locals going to Polvos Azules know what they are getting, and they really don't expect the real thing.
If somebody lives in Peru, I don't get why they need a prove of the mess the country is in.

""when in rome, do as the romans do"... in peru, illegal is the norm", and there people go and 'do what romans do' but ask for a receipt.... weird.

My second posting started with: "I know this is mostly about the TPS for Peru..."

In that enormous reply no mention of people not wanting to work, convenient....

And, apparently not to me, to Americans...

Good luck with the TPS, I hope it gets approved and helps all these people working hard to help, either family, the country or themselves, to those living in Peru and not realizing how things work (or thinking they know them too well), what can I say, don't be cheap, break the piggy bank and don't do your shopping in Polvos Azules.

And now, back to my life.
Chau y suerte otra vez.

# americorps says :
16 September, 2007 [ 01:54 ]

Lucy, you might be fine with Alan quoting white supremecist, but I am not.

# pgoros says :
16 September, 2007 [ 16:25 ]

I'm sure the locals going to Polvos Azules know what they are getting, and they really don't expect the real thing.

Zu, I've shopped in polvos azules dozens of times and I always knew exactly what I was getting, even from day one. In the case of the memory card, I needed a 4gb capacity and since Ripley nor Saga had one at the time, I took a chance with what I suspected was a fake. You should have seen how many locals bought the same 2gb and 4gb cards while I was there... I don't think many people want fake memory cards that don't work, whether they otherwise know about polvos azules or not, so how about stopping this spiel since you're just grasping and trying to prove that you know something that I don't. Come to my country and we'll see who the naive one really is.

Anyway, that's all neither here nor there, in 6 years that's the only time anyone came remotely close to scamming me in Peru. How many times have you been scammed or robbed in the same amount of time?

I won't comment on any of the rest, I've said what I wanted to say previously, you have your point of view and I have mine. Fair enough.

Saludos!

# peloflex says :
17 September, 2007 [ 21:27 ]

pgross

You are blinded by your own stupidity... and for what I can see, you have plenty of time to spend in here...  I would keep on playing... but Im sorry, I have a life... maybe you should get one too.

# Alan says :
17 September, 2007 [ 22:50 ]

Hey americorps - why don'y you highlight the white supremecy qoutes that you claim I have made.  You seem to just label anyone with anything critical of your niave point of view as a nazi. 

I still say that TPS in response to the earthquake is a joke - 95% of peru is fine.

# Perucha says :
17 September, 2007 [ 23:51 ]

Aw man, this is soooo boring, what a bunch of demagogics you all, I think you should be better working or studying instead of critizicing each other. TPS for Peru is a hope for who is suffering a lot right now being separate from their loved ones, all illegal peruvians in USA would be blessed if we receive such benefit. I think we should go to the website to make donations to help our people victims of the earthquake and leave the shortminded alone in here talking bull%$#t, DO ANYTHING would be better than make those infamous the center of atenttion.
He dicho.

# RT says :
18 September, 2007 [ 02:25 ]

Here, here well put ( Perucha) you hit the nail right on the head,mate,i take my hat of to you. Best comment stated on here,( all talk-no action) typical (but true)

# Ronald C says :
18 September, 2007 [ 17:38 ]

What kind of moron or deceiving person you are Alan ?

95 % of Peru is fine !!!

The United Nations just declared us the country hit by most
natural disasters. (meaning that we are poorer than our neighbors)

Read your facts you cuy brain !!!

# Alan says :
18 September, 2007 [ 18:30 ]

95% of Peru is fine.  500 dead, 1100 wounded, 15000 homeless.  sad, but hardly widespread utter destruction of the country.  life in Lima, Trujillo, Arequipa, Cusco, Piura, Puno, etc. is 100% normal.  Quit lying and exagerating to try and legalize your illegal status in the states.

# Ronald C says :
18 September, 2007 [ 20:07 ]

My status is legal and is the american government who
did the research. Life is not normal by International standards

# Machion from Earth says :
19 September, 2007 [ 01:14 ]

Hi Ronald: Not quite sure what your point is??????

# pgoros says :
19 September, 2007 [ 06:34 ]

Peloflex, maybe you should have quit while I still offered you a graceful exit. But no, I should've known what the usual response would be... name-calling while ignoring the issue, sure signs of poor education. Duhhh, don't you have a business to run? What do you do? Juggle at intersections? Do you think your obvious stupidity makes you credible enough to debate the pros and cons of the TPS? I don't think so.

Idiot. Go juggle.

# pgoros says :
19 September, 2007 [ 09:34 ]

Holy cow, do some of you guys pull facts and stats out of your @sses? Peru is not even on the list of top countries hit by natural disasters. From the UN's website:

" The Center for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters (CRED) releases today, 29 January 2007, the figures of disasters triggered by natural hazards for the year 2006. A total of 395 disasters were recorded in 2006 with 226 caused by floods, 66 by windstorms and 30 related to extreme temperature events. The 2006 disasters killed 21,342 people. While Asia was the continent hitted most by disasters triggered by natural hazards, three European countries - Netherlands, Belgium and Ukraine - ranked among the top ten countries most affected by deadly disasters. The economic damages in 2006 were around 19 billion US Dollars."

And if you want to look at very concise world stats, look at the link below. Peru is not even mentioned:
http://www.unisdr.org/eng/media-room/press-release/2007/2006-Disaster-in-number-CRED-ISDR.pdf

How is a country poor only because it experiences natural disasters? That doesn't make any sense, what's more sensible is that (again) you guys like blaming anything but yourselves. Change the general attitude and your country might actually get somewhere some day. Simple. Others have done it, why can't you?

Same goes for international standards... life in Peru is not up to standards, that's NOT because of an earthquake but because the mentality of a large part of the population holds back progress in many ways. Until you figure this out and accept it instead of keeping yourself under the illusion that you somehow know better than the rest of the world, the standard of life in Peru will not change. Peru can go through the next 1000 years without a natural disaster and it still won't improve a single thing if its people still think the way they do now.

Dimwits like you are in support of the TPS for no other reason than to get yourselves and your fellow countrymen off the hook for an illegal act. Nothing new. Alan above was generous stating that 95% of Peru is back to life as usual. Let's see... if we say that even 20,000 of the earthquake victims are either dead, injured, or homeless, what percentage is that compared to a total population of approx. 30,000,000? Do the math, Einstein, and get back to me, ok?

Peru is the country most hit by natural disasters, according to the UN... LMFAO, what will you guys think up next? Or did you mean specifically for the month of August/2007? Even that's questionable.

# peloflex says :
19 September, 2007 [ 17:00 ]

pgross

ME CALLING YOU NAMES???

What are you talking about?? just because I said you are "blinded by your very own stupidity" ??? I do not see how that could be calling you names. Im just stating a fact and I will explain.

You wrote to me saying:

".... Im very happy! thanks, come and visit us sometime for a few beers on my nice balcony. but make sure you get a valid visa first and dont stay pass its expired or you wont be able to come again..."

You see?... you probably felt so cocky and almighty while you were writing that to me... I can even picture your "STUPID" face while typing.... but what you didnt see is that just a few posts before, I have written another post where I stated very clear that "I went through the legalization process a few years ago..."   so that makes me think that since is obvious that you are not phisicaly blind, cause you can read.. ... there is definitely something inside your head that is preventing you from seeing clearly. What else could it be other than your very own stupidity?

And honestly I dont see how can you get soo offended by my words and say that it is poor education when you also feel free to make comments like "stupid statement" that you wrote on Sep 15th?

What makes you think you are all that much that you can give this kind opinion without getting anything in return?

Seriously man! What makes you think that you can make fun of those poor kids that NEED to Juggle at intersections in order to survive?

Dont you know there is someone up there watching all of our moves? If I was you, I would be a little more carefull, What goes around, comes around...

You are even funny! you said calling names is a sign or poor education and is you the one who calles me "idiot" ....hahaha ... oook!

And FYI, I have never asked for an exit (perhaps, you wished)... the word "quit" does not exists in my dictionary. And again, Im so sorry if I dont have your time to come in here and spend hours and hours cutting and pasting... I dont mean to keep you waiting... but I do have some serious juggle-ing to do.

ba-bye!

# Ekeko says :
19 September, 2007 [ 23:05 ]

Pgoros is insatiable and continues with his nasty diatribe. He is a FREAK. He refuses to accept the real issue in this thread and always ends up going to his favorite subject. He does have a real problem with undocumented workers but is unable to see the big picture. Let’s not be harsh to the freak, he may be to understand it. LO QUE NATURA NO DA, SALAMANCA NO LO PRESTA. Well, he has the right to say whatever he wants to say and we have the right to ignore it and set him aside. There is no sign of progress there.

 

The freak’s excuse for being in this thread is that he wants TPS to be selectively applied. That is his great idea. Most people in this thread hopes that TPS is granted to all Peruvians.

 

The freak is enemy Number 1 of the undocumented workers he wants to punish them. He sees the image of the undocumented jumping the fence as an act of utterly betrayal. The fence jumping undocumented jumps to the arms of employers willing to hire them and to the arms of a nation that has decided to see the other way. Unable to apply critical thinking the freak resorts to the quick fix, one-size-fits-all solution: Blame the undocumented worker. Wake up pgoros, they are here to stay. You have been betrayed by your own stupidity and by special interest that effectively control the country. You, the puppet, and your puppeteer bear as much responsibility as the undocumented worker for this immigration mess. Another thing, time is not on your side. When in a situation like this we say in Peru: CABALLERO, ask around.

 

The freak is also giving us, Peruvians, advice as to what it takes to lift up the country and comments that our standards are low. We have many shortcomings and we are little by little improving ourselves, but since these comments are coming from a freak I have to ask: What are you talking about? Do we need to open up more tattoo and piercing parlors to make you happy? Are these the shortcomings you are talking about?

 

Peru is growing rapidly. We have been lucky that the main staple of the Peruvian economy has gone up in Price. China has effectively broken the grip that the US had in fixing the price of metals.

 

To finish I would like to say that I hope that TPS gets granted to all undocumented Peruvians and that we continue to grow while making Peru a better place to live and prosper. I also hope that the freak gets ripped off again in Polvos Azules and that eventually gives up and leaves Peru for good. We definitely don’t need that kind of creatures in a beautiful country like Peru.

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
20 September, 2007 [ 01:52 ]

Funny to read the responses by an individual who hides behind the name of pgoros. He wants to give everyboby here a lesson on complying with the law when he himself broke it by driving with a suspensed driver license and by going shopping to Polvos Azules where chances are you are going to buy something illegal.

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
20 September, 2007 [ 01:52 ]

Funny to read the responses by an individual who hides behind the name of pgoros. He wants to give everyboby here a lesson on complying with the law when he himself broke it by driving with a suspensed driver license and by going shopping to Polvos Azules where chances are you are going to buy something illegal.

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
20 September, 2007 [ 01:52 ]

Funny to read the responses by an individual who hides behind the name of pgoros. He wants to give everyboby here a lesson on complying with the law when he himself broke it by driving with a suspensed driver license and by going shopping to Polvos Azules where chances are you are going to buy something illegal.

# Y Chavez says :
20 September, 2007 [ 14:15 ]

FIVE THINGS:
1. We don't need a co-citizen like Julio Caceres to give us such negative comments.
2. Illegal immigrants are not trying to take advantage of a natural disaster. TPS is an option that the U.S. government grants in these circumstances.
3. Let's not judge the thousands of Peruvians that were forced to leave Peru due to terrorism, poor financial situation, lack of jobs, etc. We know they broke the law by staying over their permitted time, but don't we also make other mistakes and sometimes bigger ones?
4. Let's all be united so that we can help Peruvian immigrants in the U.S. get a legal way to stay and keep sending remesas to Peru. Thanks to them, many families in Peru don't starve.
5. People like Julio Caceres should refrain from making comments if these are not going to help.

# peloflex says :
20 September, 2007 [ 14:59 ]

Pulgoso (pgoros)

Read the above post by Y Chavez, that was exactly my point from the very beggining.

that's all I have and need to add. Sorry if you dont see it, there is nothing I can do to help you come down and be more humble. for what we all see here... you are not that much better than any other here.

thank you very much!

Chau!

# G.Bush says :
20 September, 2007 [ 21:29 ]

TPS for all Peruvians...!!!! YES,YES,YES,....
Peruvians love me, for sure i'm going to give you TPS for every body !!!.
Peruanos no pelear por favor, TPS todos los peruvianos...para los que no querer TPS, les mandary al IRS para que los chifle...Ñac,Ñac,Ñac.
Tu casa es mi casa dijeron los ladrones....
bye peruvianos, son unos indios lindos...

# Fano Caceres says :
22 September, 2007 [ 00:28 ]

You guys cannot end the virtual fight!!,  

Both groups have valid arguments..  In one hand YES we feel empathy for the thousands of undocumented or illegal PERUANOS.  In the other hand we know the LAW WAS BROKEN and  consequences should follow.  

"If someone breaks into our house illegally - I am sure we would react and kick his/her behind out of the premises, correct?  If this person cries forgiveness for  breaking into your home and explain the reasons why he/she entered to your residence  - will you allow him/her to stay as part of your family?  Will you give him/her the same rights as your children, wife, husband?  THINK ABOUT IT.

Peruvians had MANY reasons why they came to this country illegally.  Economic reasons, valid argument - that problem exists in every / most third world nations in the globe.  Political reasons, which country in the third world  does not have political inestability?  Social reasons - All nations in the world have signs of social inequalities.   We can go ove and over..we can continue typing and typing and  sharing thoughts/ideas  BUT the reality is different...YOU and I will never let anyone move into our hoiuse WITHOUT our CONSENT.

Even Peru your motherland is tough w/foreigners.  I explained my story in previous comments.  Is not easy to work in your homeland, and my Dad is Perucho Puro...  So if "you are in Rome you what the Romans do"  When I try to work in Peru - I did not have a chance..When I was in Peru I obeyed the Peruvian laws."   Now if you are illegal in this country WE NEED TO ABIDE TO THE LAWS OF THE LAND... AS AN UNDOCUMENTED/ILLEGAL VISITOR YOU ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE USA CONGRESS - THE LAW OF THIS LAND..By the way have you check Australia migratory laws..Are you familiar w Peru migratory laws....

Its tough to be an illegal in any county - even in Peru.

Once again..we need to respect both sides..CALLING NAMES AND INSULTING PARTICIPANTS WONT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.  

I pray for you and your endeavors...I wish you luck in your pursue to obtain TPS rights.  My father is a hard working man and every peruano I have met in this country is a good citizen of this nation.  YOU DESERVE A CHANCE TO BE LEGAL....but never denied that something was broken.

Buena Suerte a todos!!

# peloflex says :
22 September, 2007 [ 15:49 ]

Fano,

just a couple of thoughts.

following on the example that you have cited.

If I was in need of help with some housekeeping... or any other type of house related work, in my house, I would definitely consider to hire someone to do that for me. And that someone would definitely have all the accomodations that he or she needs like, a nice and clean room with own bath, good pay salary and medical insurance. Why not? I would definitely require that person to go through a screening process to make sure Im not letting a criminal or similar into my premises... etc, etc.

Remember, not everyone that is illegaly living in US has broken in to this land... so I really dont think you have a case in here.

Further more, I am very familiar with Australian immigration law and that country really knows how to treat immigrants. They have they arms open and are very encouraging with immigrants. In fact I have several relatives that live there and one of them makes a living helping peruvians to get their respective paper work to legally move "down under". Australian goverment even pays for the air fare of the whole family once your paperwork has been approved. Who is that for a warm welcoming??? Now who is going to try to over stay with a turist visa when is so easy and fair to get a permanent residency?... that would be stupid!

I hope this helps to enrich your point of view.

Regards!

peloflex

# pgoros says :
22 September, 2007 [ 17:23 ]

Peloflex:

I see my point went way over your head. Why am I not surprised? When i wrote this:

"I'm very happy, thanks. Come and visit us some time for a few beers on my nice balcony. But make sure you get a valid visa first and don't stay past its expiry, or you won't be able to come again."

... it wasn't meant as a remark on your legal status, it was meant as a remark on your views on the TPS, that if you think it should be granted to everyone for the stupidest reasons (excuses), then I'd want to make sure that you wouldn't decide to overstay your visit, hoping that the next earthquake in Peru would also exonerate you. If you don't get the concept of "tongue in cheek" comments, I can't help you.

"And honestly I dont see how can you get soo offended by my words and say that it is poor education when you also feel free to make comments like "stupid statement" that you wrote on Sep 15th?"

How about you backtrack a little and find out who exactly started with the personal attacks... if you can't take it, don't dish it out in the first place. Again, I played along with your own little game but that went over your head too.

"Seriously man! What makes you think that you can make fun of those poor kids that NEED to Juggle at intersections in order to survive?"

I see now I really have to answer you with basic concepts so that you might understand. The "juggling" comment wasn't against kids who do that to be able to eat, it was made as a question regarding your claim that you have a business to run, in other words if you really do have a business, your lack of intellect suggests that you don't.

"You are even funny! you said calling names is a sign or poor education and is you the one who calles me "idiot" ....hahaha ... oook!"

Yes. Once more, please scroll up to the post that first got into the name-calling, you'll find that it wasn't me. So if you think you have the right to do so and try to force those not agreeing with you into going off-topic, don't poop your diapers if it all comes back at you, and then try to turn it around by pointing fingers over things you inititated.

"And FYI, I have never asked for an exit"

I never said you did. I subtly offered you an exit so you wouldn't have to embarrass yourself any more... that went over your head (as well).

"the word "quit" does not exists in my dictionary."

Yes yes, I've heard that so many times before that I've stopped counting. It takes brains and discipline to appreciate the value of calling it quits and preserving what's left of your honour. Obviously you prefer to keep making pointless arguments long after you've already lost the battle. Bravo! Keep up the "not quitting", it's very entertaining.

"And again, Im so sorry if I dont have your time to come in here"

Well I just spend a little time every few days replying to a bunch of nonsense, it's really not all that time-consuming. You seem to be here a lot though, considering you've got a lot of business to take care of...

"and spend hours and hours cutting and pasting..."

I don't normally cut-and-paste but seeing the IQ of the people I have to deal with here, I figured it's best to quote your comments, so that you might be able to follow a little easier. I guess I'll have to try something else since cut-and-paste obviously isn't working out for you.

# pgoros says :
22 September, 2007 [ 18:12 ]

Ekeko:

I appreciate you taking the time and effort to write such a huge amount of babble, but next time, please, try to make a little more sense, ok?

"Pgoros is insatiable and continues with his nasty diatribe. He is a FREAK."

Yes, yes, all who disagree with your views are freaks. We get that already, let's move on from that angle of attack, shall we?

"He refuses to accept the real issue in this thread and always ends up going to his favorite subject."

Man, that's funny... my favourite subject in this thread just happens to be over the real issue. What's your favourite subject again? the difference between "Illegal" vs. "undocumented" immigrants?

"He does have a real problem with undocumented workers but is unable to see the big picture."

Oh believe me, I can. The big picture is that you think illegal immigrants should get their @sses taken off the hook without question, and who cares how that might affect LEGAL citizens. As long as it works in your favour, it's ok. Hmmm, where have I seen that kind of generally selfish mentality before...

"he has the right to say whatever he wants to say and we have the right to ignore it and set him aside."

You would be wise to exercise your right to ignore me then. Otherwise you just end up looking like a dummy with nothing really valuable to say, besides making up new names for me.

"There is no sign of progress there."

Ahhh, progress in your eyes would be what? Everyone agreeing with your view, which basically says that all illegal immigrants should be made legal because it benefits Ekeko... if that then makes problems for law-abiding citizens, well, too bad about them, we don't want to explore that avenue.
    
The freak’s excuse for being in this thread is that he wants TPS to be selectively applied.

Please follow along:

I think TPS should be applied when someone's situation actually matches the requirements that must be met for a TPS to be given. The earthquake, to me, hardly seems like a good reason, rather it seems like a perfect excuse for someone to get off easy. So let me put it into basic terminology for you: under the circumstances, I am personally against the TPS for ANYONE. I doubt you'll understand this though and go on to talk about victims of terrorism or something like that, which has no bearing whatsoever on WHY some of these illegal Peruvian immigrants seem to want the TPS NOW. In case you can't clue in, I fully understand how someone would want to leave with their family for a better, safer place regardless of what the law may state. The current wave of pro-TPS support is offering the earthquake up as the new excuse, which is extremely lame. This suggests to me that the majority of these illegals are there without any valid TPS-granting reason whatsoever, otherwise they should've formed a group and loudly demanded the TPS years ago. If you can't understand this, too bad for you.

"The freak is enemy Number 1 of the undocumented workers he wants to punish them."

"Punish" is such a strong word (and please quote me where I actually used this word prior to now)... "deport" is a more suitable term. I think you'd agree, since you also think illegal people should be classified as "undocumented".

A few bits and pieces from the gibbersih that you wrote after...

"The freak (...) comments that our standards are low."

Open your eyes and take a look around you, man. Your standards aren't just low, they're VERY low. I could write a book full of examples for you but an easy one to verify for yourself would be to open your window and see how long it takes for a dirty, loud, fume-emitting car to pass by. Or the next time you step into a micro that meets absolutely no safety standards whatsoever AND you're expected to stand in the tiny aisle. What else should I comment on? Hygiene? Quality of food products? Litter? Roads? Home construction? The police force? The military? The judicial system? Wages? Racism? Environment? Workplace safety? Gender equality?

Name ONE significant thing where you honestly believe Peru maintains a high standard in?

"What are you talking about?"

I was just about to ask you the same question.

"Do we need to open up more tattoo and piercing parlors to make you happy? Are these the shortcomings you are talking about?"

Don't be so daft. I suggest you and peloflex get together and buy a good dictionary that has a definition for the word "quit"... and then practice quitting.

"Peru is growing rapidly."

It's growing rapidly because the powers-that-be tell you that, and you choose to believe every word of it until Magaly does an expose on the corruption of those powers-that-be... then you all look for a new person to tell you once again that all is rosy, until Magaly.... You should travel outside of Peru a little bit, you might get a good dose of reality.

"I also hope that the freak gets ripped off again in Polvos Azules"

Lordy lordy, how many more straws do you have there to grasp?... in case you've misread, I never got ripped off in PA... not once anywhere in 6 years in Peru in fact. I have a good feeling you can't claim likewise.

# pgoros says :
22 September, 2007 [ 18:30 ]

Alejandro M:

"Funny to read the responses by an individual who hides behind the name of pgoros."

Haha, now I'm hiding? LMAO! Fine. "P" is for Peter (I hope you can figure out the rest -- middle name is James, if that'll help). Now you can all group together, track me down and assault me for challenging you on your bullsh*t reasons for the TPS.

"He wants to give everyboby here a lesson on complying with the law when he himself broke it by driving with a suspensed driver license"

Too funny. Never did I say that I've never broken the law, but I guess some dummies will never understand the bottom line of my example, which is: you break the rules, you pay. I broke them and paid for them. You guys want to break them and not have to be responsible or face the consequences. Do you get it yet? Probably not, since it's makes your case into a losing one instantly.

"and by going shopping to Polvos Azules where chances are you are going to buy something illegal."

Well, ain't that a revelation!

Wonder why a place like PA even openly exists anywhere? There must be a LOT of people in Lima who have no issues shopping for illegal products, I guess even the police shop there.

What other nuggets of irrelevant wisdom do you want to enlighten me with, Einstein?

# Ekeko says :
22 September, 2007 [ 20:25 ]

Pgoros the Freak will never get it.  He keeps on wondering off the subject to the point that now he is concentrating his criticism in Peru, as a country. Forget about TPS and the undocumented Peruvian workers. He is shooting from the hip against Peru. Something must have happen to this guy. I hope he has not been assaulted. I really hope he wants to help and not just criticize for the sake of it.  

Regarding the original subject, he has contributed only to say that he goes for selectively applying TPS. This is all he has contributed to the main subject. That is it. TPS has never been applied like that. Let us hope all undocumented Peruvians get it and if they don't we will have to wait for legislation to get his fixed. 

Regarding the subject of the 'Undocumented Workers' He seems to favor deportation as a way to solve the problem. You even wanted to be quoted on this.....the fact is that he thinks very small, because that can only work in Utopia. This has already been ruled out by serious politicians in the US. Demagogs continue to wave this option to convince naive Americans (are you an American Mr. Freak?) just like him. Tancredo (current Republican candidate hopeful) was trying to make the lame argument of massive deportations when somebody pointed out that that would require a non-stop operation of 10 jumbo jet flights filled with 500 undocumented each for 6.5 years. And all that to bankrupt California, Florida and New York. Now, that would require more than 10 years. Here it goes your massive deportation theory Mr. pgoros.

The Freak watches Magaly...No wonder. Maybe he does not even realize how revealing that is. Keep on watching Magaly Mr. Pgoros someday you will be become enlightened.

You mention:  Hygiene? Quality of food products? Litter? Roads? Home construction? The police force? The military? The judicial system? Wages? Racism? Environment? Workplace safety? Gender equality?
Yes we have a lot of room for improvement. But I don't think we have a KKK, do we?, but the people in ASIA should let their employees go the beach and swim a little... Environment? Wait a moment; is our carbon foot print even close to developed countries? You messed up here.....Quality of food products? You will have to be more specific here. Litter? Yep, just not good enough, Roads? Well, they are getting better...have you been to the autobahn? That is a ROAD; it makes any US freeway look third wordlist....agree? Hygiene? Japan makes the US pale.....Peru has a lot go improve in this one. Judicial System....Bush was elected by the Judiciary....Peru needs to fight corruption. Wages....pretty bad still. Construction? Have you been to Casuarinas yet? Pretty nice huh? but of course just a few....

To finish, I hope that TPS gets granted to all undocumented Peruvians. I also hope that pgoros gets stopped by the police, gets thrown in jail for not sparing some change, eats contaminated food and gets sick and that it remains sick because the medicine, bought in Polvos Azules, was fake and that he is finally put in a plane and goes back to his beautiful country to get bored to death because in his perfect country there is nothing to nag about....and boy you just love to nag.....

# LUCY URBAN says :
22 September, 2007 [ 20:31 ]

Pgoros, good for you!!!! some people don't get it, no matter what.
Have a good day  

# roberto g says :
22 September, 2007 [ 21:35 ]

JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA................all of you against TPS are samething, you realize everytime you say your names julio,fano, alan, pgross AMERICANS look at you like DIRT , why MORONS why.... fight against each other ,(AMERICANS) are the only ones to have that point of view that you JACKASSES share,

MORONS you hate that much ilegals join the MINUTE MAN......and go chase mexicans in the border, if you hate ilegals the much fight against Mexicans, no against your own people......look a your own family moron remember where you come from.

It does'nt matter if TPS benefit only peruvians , that is now in the future it'll be for others, dont be jealous, in the future you'll be proud when these people(peruvians) that are going to benefit from this TPS become prosperous and wellknown business owners.

Again i hope is the last time i say this.........

YOUR NOT AMERICANS nothing will change that fact that your are hispanics be proud of who you are.........
Its funny how your stupidity enclose your brain from reality think outside the box.
Don't think that USA government  is gonna thank you for your comments, wake up LOOSERS..... these is AMERICA nobody gives a damn about you.

so
YES TPS FOR PERUVIAN YES......................
YES PEOPLE A SUPPORT THE TPS FOR ALL PERUVIANS
GOD BLESS  OUR PEOPLE

# Fano says :
22 September, 2007 [ 23:39 ]

Hola Peroflex: Thanks for spicing it up..

Let's see..you wrote: "If I was in need of help with some housekeeping... or any other type of house related work, in my house, I would definitely consider to hire someone to do that for me. And that someone would definitely have all the accomodations that he or she needs like, a nice and clean room with own bath, good pay salary and medical insurance. Why not?" 

You have a big heart and I commend you for that.  When I was in Peru I observed how maidS/servants were treated (mistreated)..good salaries, medical insurance..it sounds ironic, because in Peru very rare  those benefits were offered to these women.  The question would be is the person you are going to hire  legal or illegal?

My dear Peroflex, you also wrote: "Remember, not everyone that is illegaly living in US has broken in to this land... so I really dont think you have a case in here."

You are telling me the fact that you are illegally in this country is not the consequence of breaking the law? uhmmm!  You arrive to the country legally and then your VISA expired..surprise - now you are illegal, THE LAW IS BEING BROKEN, AM I WRONG?

By the way any reason why you have not chosen Australia as  your country of residency...If the folks down under are warmer and friendlier than the yanquis so go over there..

Going back to my original premise...its cool to visit sites such as this..A virtual world in which we can exchange ideas, points of view, perspectives...PEROFLEX - You should have a talk show in Peru.  Have you notIced Who is causing all this interaction..-  As long as we do not offend others..cool!!

GOOD LUCK TO THE PAISANOS WHO R LOOKING FOR A BETTER FUTURE IN THIS NATION.  

VIVA EL PERU C^$^&^*&)_!!!

# pgoros says :
23 September, 2007 [ 17:32 ]

Ekeko! Welcome back, I missed you! Tell me, what do you do for a living... farm cocaine? I wonder how much profit you make from that since it seems you must snort most of it away. Anyhow...

You must have flunked out of school. Anyone who has as much problems paying attention as you do surely can't hold any kind of diploma. Anyhow...

In case you haven't realized, your awesomely clever use of the word 'freak' doesn't bother me. In fact I even quoted you with that word intact. Try another word next time, something really vulgar, maybe it'll hit a sore spot. Don't just reuse 'freak' when addressing me, can't you see that it doesn't do anything for me?

So, let's correct some of your inaccuracies. Where do I begin... ahhh... well, if you had some brain cells, you might have realized my reference to Magaly was about a huge part of the Peruvian population watching and believing all that garbage. Really, Ekeko, it wasn't about me, I don't watch her show. Are you getting a clear picture now, Ekeko? Should I make a drawing for you? Or are you going to keep twisting people's statements and keep making yourself look like a full-on idiot?

"Pgoros the Freak will never get it.  He keeps on wondering off the subject to the point that now he is concentrating his criticism in Peru, as a country."

Silly silly Ekeko. First it's you and a few other doorknobs here who went into all kinds of personal nonsense, and when someone decides to play along with you morons, you turn around and point the finger at them? Man-oh-man, you think you're so clever, don't you? It must piss you off knowing that your utterly useless debating strategies have zero effect.

"Regarding the original subject, he has contributed only to say that he goes for selectively applying TPS. This is all he has contributed to the main subject. That is it. TPS has never been applied like that. Let us hope all undocumented Peruvians get it and if they don't we will have to wait for legislation to get his fixed."

I really don't like name-calling but you make it so inviting, since you take the cake for stupidity. Of course I know TPS doesn't get applied selectively. I never said it did (but you believe what you want). I am saying though that the ONLY way the TPS should be granted in this latest Peruvian fiasco is if it was possible to be given selectively... because otherwise I don't see how anyone would be eligible for it due to an earthquake. Think over what I'm trying to say, when you figure it all out, get back to me.

"Regarding the subject of the 'Undocumented Workers' He seems to favor deportation as a way to solve the problem. You even wanted to be quoted on this"

Thank you for finally getting one thing right. Quote me again if it'll help make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

"are you an American Mr. Freak?"

Nope. Are you from the 21st century or do you still have the attitude of a gorilla?

"that would require a non-stop operation of 10 jumbo jet flights filled with 500 undocumented each for 6.5 years. And all that to bankrupt California, Florida and New York."

Trust me, there are MANY ways to deport a large number of people. Who cares if it takes some time? In the meantime people will start thinking twice about extending their stays or crossing the border.

"Here it goes your massive deportation theory Mr. pgoros."

Idiocy knows no bounds. Ekeko, where have you read any supposed theory of mine regarding deportation. Please, point this out to me. Ahhh, never mind, I see you're just trying to create an argument any way you can. Otherwise, you'd have absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread. I'm still waiting for answers to 3 or 4 questions I've had. Since you're trying to come off as a very wise person, why don't you try answering one instead of beating your head against the wall.

"Yes we have a lot of room for improvement."

At least that's more honest than you trying to tell me that Peru's standards aren't low. Repeat after me: Peruvian standards are VERY low!

"But I don't think we have a KKK, do we?"

What's your point? You all classify your own as cholos, chinos, negros, gringos... give it up, Ekeko, you're going to lose this argument real badly.

"Environment? Wait a moment; is our carbon foot print even close to developed countries? You messed up here"

Nope. Again, you've just made yourself out to be a fool who types before thinking. Keep thinking.

"Quality of food products? You will have to be more specific here."

Ekeko, please! Research the data, it's available on the internet (hint: you won't find it in the 'rosy', 'all is fine' articles on this website)

"have you been to the autobahn? That is a ROAD"

Yes, I have, many times, and will be on it again in a couple of weeks. One of the best highways in the world, and compared to the best roads in the US, almost any european highway is superior. By comparison, the roads in Peru have a verrrrrrry looooooooooooooooong way to go before they can even remotely be compared. Probably won't happen in our lifetime.

The rest of your reply regarding hygiene, law system, wages, etc... I get the feeling you seem to think I'm American and somehow want to compare Peru's standards against the US. Well, the US has a higher standard between the two in almost any category, but if you were to ask me, I'd say the US standard in general is pretty low too. So, you're not doing much to convince me there, sorry.

"Have you been to Casuarinas yet?"

Yes. Have you actually been to another country? Are you seriously suggesting Ishould be impressed over Casuarinas? Man-oh-man, you need a wake-up call.

"and boy you just love to nag....."

OK, I have to laugh and agree, Ekeko. I won't say I nag but I do complain, but if no one complains, then nothing will get improved either, right?

# Ekeko says :
23 September, 2007 [ 20:40 ]

Pgoros,

 You seem excited in your last response, you even welcome me. Are you really happy?  What a pathetic human being you are. What do I do for a living? What does that has to do with this thread? Do you think I want to socially interact with you? Please. My idea of calling you a freak was not to offend. In my view it is a good way to address someone that comes across the way you do.  Stop dissecting people’s entries and elaborate your stuff. It is probably not convenient for you to do it because you have little to contribute. Every time you tell us about yourself you put your foot on your mouth. Your narrative about driving without a license, or your tales of being ripped off in Polvos Azules and being a fan of Magaly has provided glimpses of your petty life. I don’t think you are qualified to speak about us, Peruvians, and will suggest to everyone in this thread to write a note backing me up to make you a: PERSONA NON GRATA Your comments about cocaine are unfortunate, it just reveals more on who you are, and it is not getting any better. You definitely are showing a twisted personality profile that makes the nickname Freak and valid one. No wonder you don’t get offended by it. You are a Freak. If you are portraying yourself the way you really are, in this thread, you must already know that you are a pathetic human being that probably feels dejected and that only can be tolerated by specific reasons. You probably have no friends or just friends of convenience.  I was amazed of your opinions at first, and then felt like you were just looking for a way to be controversial but now I have to tell you that I have little respect for you. You are probably young and stupid. A little more has been revealed, you are no an American, you probably a European. You are still cowardly hiding your nationality while continuing your frenzy of insults to Peruvians. But even If I knew your nationality it wouldn’t matter. Say if you were German I wouldn’t speak trash about Germany. There may be many freaks In Germany but a lots of and lots of decent people over there like some folks that I know over here. What you are doing here is not funny. It is a despicable way to address a friendly, noble country and their people. We definetely have a  lot to contribute to the world, our always evolving culture is praised by many foreigners that once exposed to it fall in love. The Freak began lurking in this thread to finally reveal itself. What’s in it for you? You drifted little by little until you showed yourself just like you are, a pathetic, obnoxious, shallow person with a hidden agenda aimed at annoy Peruvians in a put-down fashion only because someone is rebutting your lame arguments. You have not shown to have any high ground or moral authority either. We don’t' need the BS of the sore loser that you are.  You have a nasty attitude and pray in the anonymity to continue your unwelcome comments and insults. Had you been in my high school and have said less than half of what you have said in this thread I would have dragged you to the parking lot and made a man out of you. A little Brooklyn-style justice wouldn’t be bad for you.  I see that, for the most part you can’t still comprehend, after six years, the subtleties amongst us Peruvians in addressing one another. Cholo, Ponja, Chino, Zambo, Negro, Gringo. Yes indeed it can be used in a pejorative way. But my experience has been that for the most part is not used in that way. I feel free to call Chino to my Chinese-Background friend in Peru and Cholo to may schoolmate in a friendly matter. But again that is my perspective. But maybe your crowd does it in a different way. In that case you are surrounded by Freaks just like yourself and by your own admission you are here putting your foot on your mouth again.  OK you are un-impressed by the houses in Casuarinas. You are probably also un-impressed by the houses and mansions in Beverly hill. I suppose then that you live in a European Castle for the sake of this thread.  

To finish, your TPS views are ridiculous, they only represent your opinion and ill feelings about Peruvians.

Your solution for the 20 million ‘undocumented immigrant’ issue is wrong too. Your slow but massive deportation deterrent is not an option. There is no possibility of the existence of an ‘illegal worker’ unless there is an ‘illegal employer’ The incorporation of the 20 million ‘undocumented immigrants’ into the main stream of American is the only way to solve the issue permanently. You are neither an American nor live here. You sure have a say but not a vote. Are your say is tainted by your lack of information on the subject.

You and your cheerleader Lucy Urban are nothing but a couple of low-life, pathetic human beings. Go back to where you belong and leave us alone, we definitely do not need you. As to Lucy Urban...read above the comments of a normal woman, Rocio. Your despicable attitude is rot at the root. You should get together with the Freak, If you already have...you deserve each other.  

To finish. I hope TPS is granted to all undocumented Peruvians and that Peru continues its rapid growth for the benefit of all Peruvians and friends.

 

 

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
24 September, 2007 [ 13:40 ]

hey pgoros I just founf out that pgoros in greek means "sore looser". LOL.

Kiddo I don't get it you said you are married to a Peruvian but then you talk crap about Peruvians?. What's up with that?.It doesn't take to be a rocket scientist to see that you have issues, and severe ones.
I have studied and disected your comments fronm this forum and I have come to the conclusion that you are a dangerous moron, the type of individual that can easily go postal; therefore, I am forced to take some urgent measures here......

# LUCY URBAN says :
24 September, 2007 [ 14:52 ]

Ekeko, you are the one insulting the ones not sharing your views, I'm not the one making fun of anyone nor disrespenting,  no, I'm not a low life person, nor a freak or pathetic! you all shared the same attitude since you can't come up with any reasonible answered about this subject, you do have your own oppinion the same way we do have ours, but you feel YOURS are the Right ones ? according to you all, so for me I said what I had to say, nothing more, nothing less, so if you don't like it, too bad ! need to respect others point of view, I believe we all have the right to speak up, without offending, few of the ones sharing your attitude and ideas, left the site after they made stupid remarks, do you think is cute and funny calling names ? need to grow up ! Do you asking me? to read about Rocio's comment ? firstable I don't follow anyone, I do have my own oppinions, OK ? just for the record.
Learn to respect!!
Have a nice one!

# americorps says :
24 September, 2007 [ 15:15 ]

No one has talked about the opportunities provided for illegal immigrants, and put the entire burdon of responsibility on the backs of the illegal immgrant.  That alone shows a foolish and nieve approach, if not hidden racism.  ner a word about the employers and no one calling them criminals...

No one has discussed what will happen to the USA if all the illegal immigrants that we have provided with jobs are suddenly gone...the crops that wll rot in the fields, the buildings that will go unfinished, the houses that will go uncleaned, the children that will not be cared for, businesses that they support will go under, in some communities entire consumer bases will dissapear leaving tens of thousands Americans out of work. 

Prices will rise for produce so high that the lowest income Americans will no longer be able to afford healthy fresh fruits and vegetables, American farmers, already going bankrupt in record numbers, will all but dissapear.

Illegal immigrants, according to the GAO, pay more than 2 Billion in taxes every year, far more than the critics CLAIM they cost us in medical costs, etc...

Other than the crime of entering our country illegally, Illegal immigrants have the same crime statistics as do American citizens, making them no more of a threat than you or me, yet the antis choose to follow the racist rhetoric presented by the racist opportunists that provide the exceptional horror story. 

I said it before and I will say it again, if you can not be completely honest in making your case, then you have no case.

Vigelante Groups like the Minutmen recieve funding from shodowey groups like the Freedom Foundation that have ties to the Nazi party, and it is well documented that whenever they show up, Klan and Nazi literature suddenly becomes widely available in their trail.

There are communities in Peru that have not even yet recieved assistance from the Peruvian government after the earthquake and there are people in Chincha still dieing from the Earthquake.

The aftermath of the Sutep strike has all but negated any realized benefit of the Machu Piccu being named a wonder of the world, and with a further blow to the economy by the earthquke and the unrest that is already simmering from the return of Fujimori, Humala is seizing every opportunity he can to create further unrest in Peru and that is something that can be countered by a stronger economy that can be realized in part through Peruvians working abroad.

For those that choose to think of the problem of illegal immigration as a buffet where you only have to address certain issues and ignore the ones that are inconvenient, then you are blowing nothing but hot air and offering no real substance to the discussion, and in fact are threatening the stability of Peru and the economy of the United States.

The GAO says that if we deport all illegal immigrants, our economy could be more devestated than it was during the 1930\s depression.

Life aint black and white folks, and it takes complex multi-tiered thinking to address this problem.  Not simple minded platitudes and nationalistic rhetoric.

# Enrique says :
24 September, 2007 [ 18:50 ]

Speaking about the law in relation to the illegal immigration, Herbet Marcuse said once: 
*More Civilization = More Laws
*More Laws = Less Freedom
The more civilized you get the less freedom you'll enjoy.
There are no easy solutions for this matter and we would make a huge mistake putting every illegal immigrants in the same bag or comparing the peruvians here in the US with the peruvians in Peru, as separating nationalists vs. non-nationalists, the world is not black or white, and yes, it is our duty as humans to question and re-invent the laws of any country, yes to be uncivilized if you want to bring the hope and freedom we all deserve. Yes, give the TPS for the peruvian people. 

# pgoros says :
24 September, 2007 [ 19:04 ]

"Are you really happy?"

Why yes, I am actually. Thank you for caring.

"What do I do for a living? What does that has to do with this thread?"

Ahh well, now you're cluing in. You see how it feels now to bring up pointless personal crap that you and a few others seem to want to divert everyone's attention to?

"Do you think I want to socially interact with you?"

Nope. I sure hope not, I tend to hang out with educated people.

"My idea of calling you a freak was not to offend."

Oh? Obviously it was to offend but don't worry, I've been laughing all week seeing you foaming at the mouth like a lunatic. I understand. Really, I do.

"Every time you tell us about yourself you put your foot on your mouth."

Hahaha... hahahaha... you're too funny. I tell you a little bit about me and you then go and change those details around to give yourself a tiny hope of making some kind of point. You must really be feeling inadequate by now. Poor you.

"I don’t think you are qualified to speak about us, Peruvians"

I see. However, you are qualified to speak about me, right? And by the way, I'm not so much referring to ALL Peruvians as I am to just ones like you who can't think rationally and sanely. Those kinds of people can be found anywhere, so please get the point that I'm referring to people who only look at the TPS in a way that it will benefit them, and go on barking at everyone to enforce their opinions. Got it? Good! Cookie for you!

"Your comments about cocaine are unfortunate"

Let's not forget who started the whole shouting match, and maybe you'll understand my comment. I know I mentioned this before and you choose to ignore it, so out of courtesy I'm reminding you again.

"you are a pathetic human being that probably feels dejected and that only can be tolerated by specific reasons. You probably have no friends or just friends of convenience."

Woof! Woof!

"You are probably young and stupid"

You'd probably be very wrong.

"you probably a European"

Bingo! If you followed the earlier threads, you'd have known this.

"You are still cowardly hiding your nationality"

Ummm, Sherlock, I already stated my nationality earlier. Keep foaming away though. By the way, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and tell us all YOUR real name?

"Say if you were German I wouldn’t speak trash about Germany"

And then you said...

"There may be many freaks In Germany"

So much for not speaking bad about Germans, eh?

"What you are doing here is not funny."

Hurling personal comments at other people is definitely not funny or nice. If you hadn't begun doing so, we wouldn't be doing all this unfunny stuff now.

"It is a despicable way to address a friendly, noble country and their people"

No, I am addressing people who are not noble enough to know that they've broken another country's law and who now think it's ok to clear their slates by using REAL earthquake victims as an excuse to get the TPS. And yes, there are many friendly people in Peru, but just as many selfish, uneducated @ssholes. You're representing the latter group very nicely.

"You drifted little by little until you showed yourself just like you are, a pathetic, obnoxious, shallow person with a hidden agenda aimed at annoy Peruvians in a put-down fashion only because someone is rebutting your lame arguments."

Rebutting? Who has rebutted me yet? You definitely haven't. You've just been dancing around the actual issue and trying to smear people who are not on your side. You've added exactly ZERO value to this thread. I have added ZERO as well once the insults started flying. The only reason I'm still bothering here is to watch you dig your own grave with your replies... people can now see what kind of mentality supports the TPS in question: the barking, rabid, foaming at the mouth kind of mentality. If nothing else, you're good entertainment at least!

"We don’t' need the BS of the sore loser that you are"

Oh, right! This debate is all about winning, is it? Again, you prove to all reading this that you're just going to bark until everyone agrees with you. Down, boy! You lost already, many messages ago. I know it's difficult for you but once you get out of your denial stage, we can move you to the next stage of counselling.

"Had you been in my high school and have said less than half of what you have said in this thread I would have dragged you to the parking lot and made a man out of you."

This is too funny! I fully expected this kind of comment from you eventually. Be careful with what you say, you don't know me or what I do for a living. You don't want to challenge me like this, there's a good reason why I haven't had problems (unlike you probably) in Peru for 6 years and let me tell you, I've been in the best and worst areas, sometimes even alone (unlike you probably). But anyways, once again we see what your typical reaction would be towards anyone who disagrees with you. You're doing a good job proving that there is a problem with the Peruvian mentality (apologies to the educated ones, I don't mean you but you probably recognize the Ekeko-type of personality that has and will keep on crippling real progress for Peru). Keep barking, Ekeko!

"A little Brooklyn-style justice wouldn’t be bad for you"

Ooooh! I know all about Brooklyn life. I doubt you'd last there, even though you probably think you're the most street-smart guy in the world. Dream on!

"Cholo, Ponja, Chino, Zambo, Negro, Gringo. Yes indeed it can be used in a pejorative way. But my experience has been that for the most part is not used in that way."

Then you're either completely stupid or you simply refuse to concede a valid point. For the most part (and my Peruvian friends, who have brains and an objective mind, will say the same), these racial labels are very offensive and used to address total strangers all the time in Peru. Friend to friend is one thing, but what you have in Peru is pure racial and class discrimination. If you can't comprehend that, then you have a very big problem.

"But maybe your crowd does it in a different way"

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't apply special names to people based on color or ethnic background. Just because you do, doesn't mean it's ok.

"I suppose then that you live in a European Castle for the sake of this thread"

Nope, not a castle, just a nice house in a town near the capital city. No security guards, no fences, no disrespectful neighbours, no pollution or dust in the air, no loud cars, no pickpockets, thieves, or robbers. I don't even lock my car doors at night. Does that answer your curiosity? Point me to one place in Peru where I can have the same thing?
   "There is no possibility of the existence of an ‘illegal worker’ unless there is an ‘illegal employer’"

For once, you're right! And, as I have stated before, the illegal employer should be held responsible too.

"The incorporation of the 20 million ‘undocumented immigrants’ into the main stream of American is the only way to solve the issue permanently"

Yes... for those who are illegal, it's a splendid, heavenly solution. For the rest of the people in the country, it creates other problems. But you don't care to think about that, right?

"Go back to where you belong and leave us alone, we definitely do not need you"

Are you addressing me, or the illegal immigrants in the USA? Think this over real carefully. Yes, it's a bit of a trick question. You'll probably screw up with your answer anyways, but one can always hope...

Keep foaming at the mouth, it's funny watching you barking away without a single intelligent thing to say. Don't worry, Ekeko, I'll let you have the last word eventually, I know you're just dying to have that.

# pgoros says :
24 September, 2007 [ 19:25 ]

Alejandro:

"hey pgoros I just founf out that pgoros in greek means "sore looser". LOL."

Yes, LOL back at you. Before you start studying the greek language (and actually getting proper definitions of words), you might first want to brush up on your english by figuring out how to correctly spell 'loser' (i'll forgive the typo for 'found' though, this time).

 

"Kiddo I don't get it you said you are married to a Peruvian but then you talk crap about Peruvians?. What's up with that?"

My wife doesn't happen to have that old, primitive Peruvian mentality that holds back progress for the country to this day. I am not saying that ALL Peruvians have this mentality, I am saying there are enough that do have it that override any progressive ideas, admittance of internal problems, and looking for ways to solve them. Peruvian women tend to be more intelligent about this than Peruvian men... except guys like you refuse to give your women a voice... kiddo.

 

"It doesn't take to be a rocket scientist to see that you have issues, and severe ones."

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you're nowhere close to being a rocket scientist.

 

"I have studied and disected your comments fronm this forum"

You obviously need to do some more research. Back to the laboratory for you!

 

"and I have come to the conclusion that you are a dangerous moron"

Brilliant deduction! It's sooo obvious that I am dangerous and that I am a moron. After all that research you've done on me and my comments, you surely must be correct in your conclusion. With your brains you should be studying rocket science!

 

"therefore, I am forced to take some urgent measures here."

Yes, I can understand the need for urgent measures. I'll wait around for you to decide what exactly those measures will be. Take your time, no rush, kiddo.

# pgoros says :
24 September, 2007 [ 19:54 ]

"No one has talked about the opportunities provided for illegal immigrants, (...) ner a word about the employers and no one calling them criminals"

Ummm, yes, americorps, this has been debated actually. Employers should be held responsible too, with extremely high penalties.

"No one has discussed what will happen to the USA if all the illegal immigrants that we have provided with jobs are suddenly gone"

Ummm, yes, americorps, this has also been brought up... I asked you specifically about this but you ignored this part when you replied to me.

"the crops that wll rot in the fields, the buildings that will go unfinished, the houses that will go uncleaned, the children that will not be cared for, businesses that they support will go under, in some communities entire consumer bases will dissapear leaving tens of thousands Americans out of work"

That's gross exaggeration and you know it. It's likely complete BS. Compare the percentage of illegal workers with the percentage of unemployed (but legal) citizens. Tell me again exactly how your scenario plays out???

"Prices will rise for produce so high that the lowest income Americans will no longer be able to afford healthy fresh fruits and vegetables, American farmers, already going bankrupt in record numbers, will all but dissapear."

Man oh man, you contradict yourself here. How about comparing farmer Bob who hires illegal help and sells at lower cost than farmer Joe who hires legit help and can't compete because of Bob? Ever thought about it this way?

And that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that americans don't eat healthy fresh produce anyways, so blame the farmers' woes on america's craving for junk from McDonalds and Pizza Hut.

"Illegal immigrants, according to the GAO, pay more than 2 Billion in taxes every year, far more than the critics CLAIM they cost us in medical costs, etc"

I won't dispute the figure but I wouldn't mind a link to the data to be sure. But still, who cares? The health system is only one very small factor pertaining to the issue overall.

"Other than the crime of entering our country illegally, Illegal immigrants have the same crime statistics as do American citizens"

And I say BS! The percentage of unemployed illegal immigrants is higher than the US average, and I've read stats contradicting your claim.

"I said it before and I will say it again, if you can not be completely honest in making your case, then you have no case."

That goes for you then... you're selectively pulling out data that favours your stance (and we're not even sure if you haven't exaggerated them), while ignoring the data that doesn't.

"There are communities in Peru that have not even yet recieved assistance from the Peruvian government after the earthquake and there are people in Chincha still dieing from the Earthquake."

And meanwhile, illegal immigrants in the US are screaming for the TPS as soon as possible (before life returns back to normal in Peru after the quake and everyone loses their excuse)

"Machu Piccu being named a wonder of the world"

Ahem. One of the 'NEW' seven wonders to be precise, which has absolutely no relation to the actual seven wonders which are still recognized. Look around, americorps, where (outside of Peru) do you see travel agencies etc. promoting the 'new' wonders. It's over, it's done. The folks that ran the entire campaign are now laughing their butts off somewhere on a carribean beach.

"a stronger economy that can be realized in part through Peruvians working abroad"

How about strengthening the economy by stabilizing your own country and getting foreign investors interested? Peruvians working abroad, legally or otherwise, do virtually nothing to help the economy of Peru.

"For those that choose to think of the problem of illegal immigration as a buffet where you only have to address certain issues and ignore the ones that are inconvenient"

As in ignoring the inconvenient question I posed way back: Are illegal immigrants law breakers or not? I ask again. When you answer with a simple yes or no, we can go on and debate the rest.

"and in fact are threatening the stability of Peru and the economy of the United States"

Now you're sounding like Bush when he insisted he there were WMDs in Iraq... in other words, lots of pointless, untrue fluff.

# peloflex says :
24 September, 2007 [ 20:04 ]

Fano,

Im sorry to tell you, but apparently you have been hanging out with the wrong people in Peru and I highly reccommend that you dont generalize. Proceeding with the topics that you have decided to mention. Is not that I have a big heart, thank you but I wont take credit for that although I might, but it doesnt pertrain to this particular case. But in fact I can tell you that at my home, we did have help (never called them servants as you do) but we did have some and they were extraordinary people. they deserved to have all the rights and to be treated in the best possible way. A couple of them stayed with our family for over a decade and of course being legal or illegal was not part of the equation back then as it is not nowadays, looks like your example does not suit this case very good, (just remember it's your example)Im glad that you now see it. but is that was the case, let's say being legal or illegal was important, my answer to you would be simple. if it was in my hands to make that change for them and give them the required legalization BY ALL MEANS I WOULD.

Once again, as I told another member here, please read up a little bit before you write to other people, people that you dont know or know very little. you are reffering to me as Im still living here in US as illegal, well that's not my case anymore. I am not suprised to see that you thought that, cause for what I can see, I find interesing that there is a very well marked profile of individuals who have the big tendency of pointing out fingers... you guys want to put down others cause you can not do enough on your own to stand up and shine base on your own merits. that's a shame, specially guys like you that were privileged to be born in the country of opportunities.

About your question, why is that I dont move to Australia? the answer is also very simple: I did want to! in fact I went there to visit, it's a place that I really liked since I was in high school, I remember I used to watch that tv show "beyond 2000" and since I have always being immersed in technology, I always saw that country as tempting. But unfortunately later on I found out about where they get their electricity and I didnt want to be part of it.

Lastly, your comment about me hosting a talk show?... hmm I really dont know where that came from.. so I guess Im just going to ignore it. sorry, dont mean to be rude.

Thank you very much for dedicating your time to read.

chau!

PERROFLO

# peloflex says :
24 September, 2007 [ 21:03 ]

Pgoros....

I think I have some wonderful news for you today. I know you will love this, please sit your sorry nalgas tight and read up.

For the last time, I will take a few minutes just to show you my point of view and more specificly, my opinion about you.

Do you remember one of my very first suggestions about you going back to polvos azules and getting that 3 m tall pedestal??? I hope you do, cause here let me show you what you just wrote on your last post.

I see my point went way over your head. why Im not suprised?

You see Mr Almighty? you see why you have so much trouble getting along with others?... you think you are too much! and unfortunately you are not or maybe you are but too bad you dont show it here.

If you want people to get your point of view, make sure you focuse on the main goal and that is "reaching out"  not shooting over other's heads...  get it?

The fact that I write here in English is because Im required to by the site's rules. That doesnt mean that Im related to Shakespeare.... and dont even think about looking me down because of this, unless you prove first that you could understand my subtle messages in Spanish and I can assure you without knowing you that my English is 10 times better than your Spanish.

Now, your big excuse about what you said on the "over stayed visa" and "the jugglers" is nothing else than that, JUST A BIG EXCUSE! that not even Shakespeare could camuflage. It takes a man to accept his mistakes and a genious to learn from them and for what we can ALL see, you are neither.

Here, a couple more of your so highly educated interventions.

I see now I really have to answer you with basic concepts so that you might understand...

WOW! thank you so much! you are one of a kind (that's very fortunate!)

I dont normally cut and paste but seeing the IQ of the people that I have to deal with here...

OOOH! I think instead of P as in Peter... .I think the P stands for Presumptous... PETULANTE and PEDANTE!... (yes Im calling you names and so what?)

FYI, you dont HAVE TO deal with anyone in here.... is a freewill site, no one asked you to do anything you dont want to. Get it straight!

We are all here lacking of intellect as you like to think. Perhaps that's the reason why, 10 years ago, based on my very low IQ I decided to inccur into the Automation business, where I have already registered 3 very own patented machines. I am sure that means counting beans to you... as I am sure that you wouldnt have any problems learning on your own about motion control and robotics.... PERHAPS!!! I wouldnt be suprised if you tell me that you already know all of this...

But here, these are the great news I promised at the beggining...

There is a saying in my language... that says "un consejo....hasta de un conejo...."

And yes, Im taking your advice and Im giving up on you... I see there is no use for me to keep trying to go through your head when is obvious that you have it already filled up with all that bunch of caca... It's now my turn to be a bigger man and letting you go out victorious for your own sake. I hope that you really enjoy this moment.

But before I go I must say:

TPS for all hard working peruvians living in the dark for no reason!!!!

con mucho carino.

peloflex

# pgoros says :
24 September, 2007 [ 21:47 ]

Ekeko,

"For the last time, I will take a few minutes just to show you my point of view"

That's the problem: you haven't stated any point of view in the past, and you haven't stated one here either. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but... your entire message is about what you think of me, and nothing more.

"You see Mr Almighty?"

What happened to 'freak'?

"you see why you have so much trouble getting along with others?"

And you know this how? I have lots of friends, thanks, but what's this got to do with anything?

"you think you are too much! and unfortunately you are not or maybe you are but too bad you dont show it here."

Look, I could answer you and say 'yeah, I'm obviously too much for you' but I won't. If you can come on here and claim that I have some high and mighty attitude problem, well, why shouldn't I think the same of you? You're trying to push your pro-TPS stance without any actual reasoning, and yet you tell others here (Fano being your latest target) to watch what they say and think. That's pretty arrogant and controlling, no? I'm not trying to push your buttons this time, I'm honestly asking you to consider this.

"If you want people to get your point of view, make sure you focuse on the main goal and that is "reaching out"  not shooting over other's heads...  get it?"

Again... you bring it on yourself. I mention Polvos Azules, you twist the whole thing into something else. I mention Magaly, you twist that into something else too. It's not very courteous so what do you expect in return? Hey man, I'm opinionated, I admit it, I also admit I can be wrong, I can also say though that I'll listen to the other side. I gave you the same consideration in the beginning, right up until you suggested a certain website to me. That's when I knew you just wanted to get into bashing mine (and others) personality. Sorry, man, but you got the treatment you deserved. Maybe you didn't expect it but it was deserved.

"The fact that I write here in English is because Im required to by the site's rules. That doesnt mean that Im related to Shakespeare.... and dont even think about looking me down because of this"

I never commented on your english. Your english is very good.

"unless you prove first that you could understand my subtle messages in Spanish"

Oh I understand them, don't fret over that.

"and I can assure you without knowing you that my English is 10 times better than your Spanish"

Maybe it is but you're in the USA for how long now? I entered Peru not knowing more than 3 spanish words. I'm pretty fluent now after 6 years, pronounciation I have down to a *T* while grammar still gets me sometimes.

"Now, your big excuse about what you said on the "over stayed visa" and "the jugglers" is nothing else than that, JUST A BIG EXCUSE!"

You lost me... an excuse for what? The overstayed visa was tongue-in-cheek and the juggling remark was definitely half insult and half joke in reference to your business claims. How do you consider these some kind of 'excuses' when they're just replies to off-topic things that *you* initiated?

"It takes a man to accept his mistakes and a genious to learn from them and for what we can ALL see, you are neither."

Well, listen... I could really hurl a good one at you in response (don't boast that I couldn't because you can see from prior posts that I easily could)... but I'm going to let it go.

"OOOH! I think instead of P as in Peter... .I think the P stands for Presumptous... PETULANTE and PEDANTE!... (yes Im calling you names and so what?)"

Hey man, try P for 'pendejo' and I'll even admit to it :)

"FYI, you dont HAVE TO deal with anyone in here"

Yes, but what do you want, that everyone with a different viewpoint just keep quiet while the others go on ranting and posting off the wall things?

"where I have already registered 3 very own patented machines"

Congrats! Got links to examples of those patents? I worked in the automation business many years ago (food/beverage industrial processing equipment). We registered many patents (by 'we' I mean a group of engineers). Since then I've also designed moulds and dies for various industries.

"I am sure that you wouldnt have any problems learning on your own about motion control and robotics.... PERHAPS!!! I wouldnt be suprised if you tell me that you already know all of this"

Yes, well as I wrote, it happens that I was involved in a similar field a long time ago. I'm not in that field any more though. And I'm not taking anything away from you here, in fact kudos for being in that kind of profession.

"And yes, Im taking your advice and Im giving up on you"

Actually, I'm being civilized with you in this post, so if you want to get any last insults in afterwards, go ahead.

"I see there is no use for me to keep trying to go through your head when is obvious that you have it already filled up with all that bunch of caca"

See? If I am talking caca, I'm still waiting for you to give me a rebuttal on the actual issue, not personally attack me, which gets both of us into the caca anyways.

"It's now my turn to be a bigger man and letting you go out victorious for your own sake. I hope that you really enjoy this moment."

Well, you can reply or you can ignore. I commend you for choosing to walk away, I will do the same. But if you have valid points to make regarding the TPS, then I'd gladly read them and debate them in a civilized manner.

Suerte, saludos! (sincerely)

# peloflex says :
24 September, 2007 [ 22:39 ]

Pgoros,

I know I am supposed to be gone and you left alone... .but hey man, for once in your lifetime... GET IT RIGHT!!!

I know by know you are probably dreaming, or better yet, having nightmares with EKEKO.... you probably think of him quite often during your day.... but I AM NOT HIM!....

You see? this is what I mean with you having your head full of caca...
is never too late to change.

And Im glad that you have had experience in the same field that I currently have a business on. So you just go ahead and make a effort and think back to those old days and tell me... how it would have been for you to handle the "WE" that you mention as a group of engineers.. as being only you... ???

Im glad I have just enough IQ to handle it all on my own.

thank you once again!

PELOFLEX

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
25 September, 2007 [ 00:30 ]

pgoros, hey little man, what an irrelevant comment about the mispelled. No substance again. However; you could consider it a minute victory  if that makes you happy. You need it since you are taking major beatings from Ekeko and Peloflex, among others.

I am sure you found your "smart" Peruvian woman in a little town in Puno or other area in the Andes. Women around there are submissive enough to deal with a quasi-human like you.

By the way, I have written the representative in my area to vote in favor of the TPS, maybe it will favor a few your wife's relatives who can work in relative peace at 7-Eleven.

Good night and I hope you have yet another nightmare with your favorite........Ekeko....LOL

# pgoros says :
25 September, 2007 [ 05:52 ]

Peloflex, sorry for the confusion, somehow I had Ekeko in mind when replying to you.

"And Im glad that you have had experience in the same field that I currently have a business on. So you just go ahead and make a effort and think back to those old days and tell me... how it would have been for you to handle the "WE" that you mention as a group of engineers.. as being only you... ???"

I noted the 'WE' to be clear that the engineering that was performed was by a group of people, so as NOT to appear to be giving credit only to myself. The 'ME' part is simply to state that I have been involved in similar work as yours. I've long since moved on to environmental work on a case-by-case basis, as well as consulting on machine and software interface designs (two distinct areas of work, yes). Again, as I wrote already, I commend you for working in a high-tech field, and good luck with present and future endeavours.

# pgoros says :
25 September, 2007 [ 06:23 ]

"what an irrelevant comment about the mispelled. No substance again"

Speak for yourself. Why did you bring up greek word definitions then, which is completely irrelevant to the actual topic? Calling the kettle black again, are we, pot?

"However; you could consider it a minute victory  if that makes you happy"

Nope, just my response to a dumb remark about greek words.

"You need it since you are taking major beatings from Ekeko and Peloflex, among others"

I think you need to re-read this thread a little bit. I know you'd like to see things the way you'd hope they'd be, but... well, hell, I'll leave you with your assumptions. You're the most boring and least worth the bother of any poster here.

"I am sure you found your "smart" Peruvian woman in a little town in Puno or other area in the Andes."

Nope, found her in Lima. If you would care to re-read earlier comments, I am not keen on submissive, needy women. I know that's probably more your type since you'd otherwise have issues being insecure with a girl who's confident, independent, and makes more money than you.

"Women around there are submissive enough to deal with a quasi-human like you"

Yes they are... is that where you would go to find your girlfriend/wife?

"By the way, I have written the representative in my area to vote in favor of the TPS, maybe it will favor a few your wife's relatives who can work in relative peace at 7-Eleven."

Funny little man you are. My wife's relatives are almost all living legally and working outside of Peru for a long, long time. All with excellent jobs... see, that's what can happen when you apply for residency properly... you don't end up at a 7-11 and have to run out the back door every time men in dark suits and sunglasses drop by.

I do hope though, that if you wrote your rep to vote pro-TPS, you actually stated some valid arguments, and not just written a "or else I'll call you names" kind of letter. You won't be doing anyone any favours that way.

Actually, I should forward your posts here to your representative, so they may know what kind of mentality is truly behind the letter. How about it, Alejandro no Magno?

"Good night and I hope you have yet another nightmare with your favorite........Ekeko....LOL"

You sure are eager to exaggerate. But I do understand, seeing how your insecurity over talking a good, intelligent debate causes you to invent other topics instead.

Sweet dreams, feel free to have your last word now to complete your village idiot's autobiography!

# americorps says :
25 September, 2007 [ 07:11 ]

P

Your shallow passive agressiveness is, in a word, cheap.

Bringing something up is not discussing it.  Nowhere have you tried to hold US Citizens and companies operating in the USA to a higher standard or even the same standard of not breaking US laws than you do poor people from other countries accepting the opportinities we provide.  The burdon should be on us first.

As far as the US economy, I did not reply to you becuase you did not address our own GAO report about it, and when you ignore the facts that you do not want to see, then you are saying nothing.

The economic scenario is based again on GAO reports, and exemplified by communities that have taken measures to rid their local areas of illegal immigrants who are currently suffering suvered economic slow-downs.  If you wish to continue to be the proverbial ostrich and stick your head in the sand to ignore both the experts and the actual real-time scenarios, then again, you have nothing legitimate to say.

McDonalds is one of the biggest buyers of American Tomatoes, onions, lettuce and potatoes, so even giving that raw fresh vegetable consumption may not be what it should, it does not negate the GAO statistics about the rise in food, and there are many families who do try to eat healthy, and you seem perfectly fine for them to no longer have the ability to do so.  Heartless and elitist.

And meanwhile, illegal immigrants in the US are screaming for the TPS as soon as possible (before life returns back to normal in Peru after the quake and everyone loses their excuse)

an elitist outburst, but just because you have an OPINION, does not make it valid.  TPS is a political/humanitarian issue to be decided by both our nations elected leaders, and not cold heartless pius pundints like you.  I have contacted my leaders back in the US and shown my support for the bill, and my leaders agree with me.

I also note, and enjoy that you do not deny distorting facts or whitholding information, just say, to paraphrase..nanny nanny boo boo, I think that you do too.  Basically admitting that honestly and integrety is not an important part of your argument.

Also, it is clear you do not work in the travel industry, there are tourist agencies promoting the new seven wonders tourism all around the world, and other sites are already recieving a great increase of tourism and long-term bookings are up...but again, please do not let facts intefere with a perfectly good rant..goes to your credibility..

Tourism is a leading contributor to the Peruvian economy and any increas you were to see from this is being negated by other stability factors.

And you clearly are presenting more lies as the truth when you think Peruvians working abroad do not contribute to the economy.  In Mexico, for example, illegal immigrants has been listed as one of the largest sources for revenue generation for the Mexican economy...Illegal immigrants, ACCORDING TO THE GAO, send a decent share, between 10 and 40 percent of their money to family back in their home country.  Repeating lies only makes you a repeat liar and continuing to pretend the facts do not exist if they counter your arguments shows you to be without any substance whatsoever.   You are a troll and a contrarian, but since you lack honesty, you are a hallow soul with nothing legitimate to ad.

I did answer your question about illegal immigrants being law breakers, I told you that you were shallow and stupid and nieve to see it as a black and white issue, you were racist and ignorant for putting the entire burdon of the problem on the poor illegal immigrant without more than passing lip service to the American Illegal 0pportunists, I told you that I do want illegal immigration to stop, but I agree wiht the GAO report that we can not simply get rid of them or our economy will fall to pieces very fast. I told you that I am for sensible reform, not radical, racist, nationalist reform. I TOLD YOU THAT THEY ARE ILLEGAL immigrants, I never referred to them as undocumented workers.

and again, sticking your head in your as.....ground about recent instability in Peru, and pretending the likes of Humala nd Fujimori do not have the abiltiy to regain power and start turning Peru into another Venezueal suburb makes you blind, nothing more.

No, you have said nothing and your arch-enemy, to use the comic book vernacular, is right, you are simply a bad person without anything but joke arguments to present because you like to fight. 

I am through with you as you are a liar, plain and simple, and a comic.  Come back when you can play with the real men with facts, until then..play with yourself.

# pgoros says :
25 September, 2007 [ 10:13 ]

"Your shallow passive agressiveness is, in a word, cheap"

Tell that to your cohorts here, who started with all the pushiness and personal stuff. At least I give them credit for jumping into it right away... you in the meantime are the p**** who waits to pounce after I've decided to become a kinder, gentler pgoros. P****!

"Nowhere have you tried to hold US Citizens and companies operating in the USA to a higher standard"

Learn to READ! Otherwise all you're doing with this remark, and everything else you wrote afterwards, is backpedalling and looking for loopholes in order to keep arguing.

"As far as the US economy, I did not reply to you becuase you did not address our own GAO report about it, and when you ignore the facts that you do not want to see, then you are saying nothing"

SHOW ME YOUR BLOODY GAO Report!! Or at least CITE it!! It was not ME who has been referencing it, it has been you! The burden is on YOU to post statistics! Do it!

"The economic scenario is based again on GAO reports, and exemplified by communities that have taken measures to rid their local areas of illegal immigrants who are currently suffering suvered economic slow-downs."

I have looked at GAO stats, I have read both objective and ignorant articles from both sides of the debate. I will not waste time looking all this stuff up for you now, but go here and follow the many valid references given that support the vast amount of statistics dealing with illegal immigration: http://www.usillegalaliens.com. You will find yourself utterly wrong about the cost the average legal citizen incurs regarding illegal immigration vs. the benefits. ie. NOBODY is saving any money, and if you think saving a nickel on a pound of tomatoes because it was farmed by illegals is a huge plus, you need to give your head a shake.

"McDonalds is one of the biggest buyers of American Tomatoes, onions, lettuce and potatoes, so even giving that raw fresh vegetable consumption may not be what it should, it does not negate the GAO statistics about the rise in food, and there are many families who do try to eat healthy"

Show me the bloody GAO data! Even if the price of food in general is lower somewhat due to illegal labour, is it worth the price in general in terms of the added burden of social assistance costs, the added burden of incarceration costs, the increase in crime rates? etc etc etc? Gimme a freakin' break!

"just because you have an OPINION, does not make it valid"

That goes double... no, make that triple, for you! You're the worst of all posters here, not only are you incapable of supporting your stats with a reputable link or two, but you give me and other anti-TPS posters here ammunition to ridicule the entire TPS concept. I'm not saying the TPS is a dumb thing, it definitely has its merits, but your weak and slanted stance doesn't help your side at all.

"I have contacted my leaders back in the US and shown my support for the bill, and my leaders agree with me"

That's great! Now name those leaders of yours, please! Back up your words!

"Basically admitting that honestly and integrety is not an important part of your argument"

Is this a joke? Do you just want to reference the shouting matches that were started by YOUR side anyways? Let's not get into honesty and integrity now, when someone wants to fight dirty, you pretty much have to fight dirty back eventually. Then there's you, the p****, who goes on the offensive only when the shouting match is over and done with already!

"Also, it is clear you do not work in the travel industry"

No I don't, but I sure do travel... a LOT!

"there are tourist agencies promoting the new seven wonders tourism all around the world, and other sites are already recieving a great increase of tourism and long-term bookings are up"

Bookings for Machu Picchu would have increases year by year, regardless of the new 7 wonders extravaganza. Apart from that, why don't you give me references as to where this 'great increase' in interest is happening... and don't use this website as it's clear most of the articles are bent in favour of everything Peru. I do not see Machu Picchu advertised as a tourist destination ANYWHERE!

"but again, please do not let facts intefere with a perfectly good rant..goes to your credibility"

Don't use the term 'facts' until/unless you yourself can back up your data. I'm waiting...

"Tourism is a leading contributor to the Peruvian economy and any increas you were to see from this is being negated by other stability factors"

Try mining... far ahead of tourism in Peru. Tourism is growing BUT tourism is growing at a much faster pace elsewhere in the world. Not a good sign, short-term anyways.

"And you clearly are presenting more lies as the truth when you think Peruvians working abroad do not contribute to the economy"

No, you clearly are delusional and idealistic at best. Show me data that supports your version of the 'truth'.

"Illegal immigrants, ACCORDING TO THE GAO, send a decent share, between 10 and 40 percent of their money to family back in their home country"

Show me the data! IF true (and IF the participants questioned gave honest answers), it may help the family, and the family may influence the country's economy by being able to afford to spend that money around, but it is still a very minimal contributing factor to the overall economic picture.

"continuing to pretend the facts do not exist if they counter your arguments shows you to be without any substance whatsoever"

Show me YOUR facts!

"I did answer your question about illegal immigrants being law breakers, I told you that you were shallow and stupid and nieve to see it as a black and white issue"

No! You refused to answer yes or no, simple as that! You had to offer reasons and excuses to the obvious answer. But let's swing it your way and say the answer isn't just black and white. Fine! Refer yourself again to the link I provided above (you don't have to eat up the writing of the poster there btw, just look at the references that are provided as backup). Yes, I fully agree that there are some illegal immigrants that did the deed out of very real desperation. I will not point fingers at those. But statistics and data suggest that a very large proportion of illegal persons are affecting the overall state of the US in pretty negative ways. Why do you refuse to address THOSE points???

"you were racist and ignorant"

You must not have a very good grasp of the concept of racism then, sorry. I've done much to help people improve their conditions in Peru, without preference to race. I've trained poor people to become certified machinists, I've volunteered to teach kids math in the andes, my wife and I went to various orphanages to, out of our own desire and pockets, feed kids every christmas for 6 years and any other time we could afford to in between.... I don't like mentioning these things and boasting, but you brought up (yet again) your racist crap! Get over it! There's a huge difference between a real racist spewing nonsense and an ordinary individual looking at the issue from both sides, looking at data, and unfortunately thinking 'hmmmm...' when evaluating all the info. And yet, here you are, side-swiping at those who don't see things your way.

"I agree wiht the GAO report that we can not simply get rid of them or our economy will fall to pieces very fast"

Prove this! All evidence points to the complete opposite, being that while it may affect *some* part of the economy, the benefits that will be gained otherwise would be huge!

"I told you that I am for sensible reform, not radical, racist, nationalist reform. I TOLD YOU THAT THEY ARE ILLEGAL immigrants, I never referred to them as undocumented workers"

Hey, I am all for sensible reform! My ears are open, ready to hear your proposal. You KNOW it's not as easy as you somehow want to make it seem, there's much more to it. Sadly, for the foreseeable future, for many reasons, immigration measures will have to remain harsh... you will never ever be able to accept everyone's application for citizenship, therefore you will always have some going about it the wrong way, and therefore policy will always have to remain tough. That's life!

"recent instability in Peru, and pretending the likes of Humala nd Fujimori do not have the abiltiy to regain power and start turning Peru into another Venezueal suburb makes you blind, nothing more"

No, it makes you a subjective, theorizing prognosticator, nothing more. While the idiot Humala and Fujimori do have their supporters, give Peruvians some credit and realize that they have the power to put these matters to rest on their own. Your bleeding-heart approach and suggestion that Peruvians can't help themselves is plain insulting to Peruvians, even to those who are arguing against me here.

"Come back when you can play with the real men with facts"

Most of this debate is one opinion vs. another opinion, and that's fine by me as long as both sides remain objective. It is YOU who always wants to push your views as factual, yet without any supporting evidence thus far. I have pasted the TPS act for you last week, without a peep from you. I have given you a link chock-full of references in this post, not because I need to have 'facts' to back myself up but because you can't (or are too ignorant to) validate YOUR OWN! Grow up and stop wagging your insinuating finger. You'd be more accurate if you were to wag it at yourself! P****!

# devon says :
25 September, 2007 [ 11:27 ]

Hey guys, if I may interject into your conversation.  I too am married to a Peruvian, my wife is from Lima.  In addition, I work in the immigration industry for a law firm that helps people get visas, green cards, etc.

From my over 20 years of experience in this industry, let me be very clear about TPS for Peru.  It isn't happening.

The earthquake that hit Peru, while devastating, does not rise to the level necessary for the granting of TPS.  If the earthquake had made a direct, severe hit on Lima, then maybe.  To qualify for TPS, things have to be quite severe.  Think hurricane Mitch when it hit El Salvador.  Almost a third of the country was wiped out, thousands died, towns were washed away.  In the case of Liberia you had a major civil war, not an insurgency, a real, full blown civil war.

Just wanted to add my thoughts.

# Julio Caceres says :
25 September, 2007 [ 11:41 ]

Like I tried to tell you all from the beginning, the quake in Peru can't be compared to the disaster in Nicaragua or El Salvador. Illegal Aliens - "Let it go and come back to Peru" Man up and come make a difference here.

# Beton. says :
25 September, 2007 [ 16:17 ]

Easy, If I dont get the TPS, I will keep making money under the table, and avoid paying taxes, As  I wont have have incomes " legally ' , I will keepp using the health services for free as I was doing it these last three years. Since I cant buy any property I will keep sending the whole of my money back to Peru that means MY FOURTH APARTAMENT, in my Third YEAR in America isnt great?, If I dont get The TPS I ll keep being and ILLLEGAL Alien, since I dont want to go back to PERU to make 500 soles per month.NO WAY...........

If I dont get the TPS. I wont be able to get a valid driver licence I' ll keep driving with the international one with no problem, my Kids will continue going to school and my wife will continue working as I will.

I have been here all these years and nothing is going to change my way of LIFE... If one day I got deported it will be because my GOD wanted that way. but not because and stupid moron is asking me to go back to Peru.

IF I got deported. I will go home very happy of having wath I have . I great family , a beautifull wife who is with me in GOOD and IN BAD, A big bank account and my properties in LIMA, the only affected person will be my REALTOR who was selling me and apartament every year , and of course her family too.

I am a good worker, I am sure I can make it in Peru AS WELL, but is just GOD's decision if I stay or IF I GO... For now I'll keep working and making safe my children's future and BUYING apartaments in LAVIEJA LIMA......

SINCERELY..An OVERSTAYED VISA BUDDY...

# peloflex says :
26 September, 2007 [ 00:52 ]

Very well said Beton!

Specially the part where you say... . but not because an stupid moron is asking me to go back to Peru... ."  JAJAJAJA!!!!!

This guy Julio Caceres again. He was the reason why I got involved in here.. if He at least would have make that first post with a fake name... i.e JOHN SMITH! or MIKE STANFORD... who would have give a rat's poto..... ???? but it pissed me off to see that someone belonging to the same group of people would have make that kind of discriminating remark... I just hope He is not peruvian.... I am willing to apologize if He isnt peruvian. I will apologize to the entire group.

By the way, I have some homework for These two gentlemen, Devon and J. Caceres... what is the size in square meters of a country like El Salvador or Nicaragua?.... compared to the size of Peru?

Man, if you want to wait until one third of Peru gets vanished by a natural disaster.... NO WAY! WE DONT WANT TO PAY THAT KIND OF PRICE FOR YOUR RIDICULOUS TPS... YOU CAN SHOVE IT!.... Im sure all my compadres mojarras here in US would pass on the TPS if that's what it takes to get it.

Julio Caceres, I TRULLY hope, that you find happiness without the need to betray your own people.....someday.

Saludos!

Peloflex

# Ekeko says :
28 September, 2007 [ 01:05 ]

Hello everyone,

Kind of funny to realize that the FREAK had a mental breakdown. He must be getting tired or writing all this nonsense. Or maybe his subconscious is giving up on him and has initiated a soft stop sequence that might allow the Freak to reconsider his ridiculous stance and apologize for the offensive words he has been using against a group of nice and tolerant fellows like us. If that is the case there is a hope for redemption.   Even though I realized, awhile back, that to argue with people like the Freak is an exercise in futility I want to insist and continue to reject his lame arguments and his nasty diatribe. He felt, from the get go, free to exercise his Anglo-Saxon rudeness on us. All of a sudden we, Peruvians, were attacked and verbally abused by a blue collar Brit that has a number of unresolved, and very personal issues, we are not responsible for. ‘So f*cking typical of a Peruvian mindset…..to always keep an eye out for an angle where you benefit at whatever cost to others’ ?????? I can’t speak for anyone but myself but I think we all will easily reject, in the strongest terms, the implications of the Freak’s comments. That sounds as if we, Peruvians were sort of pirates or criminals. The most despicable pirates in the world where British, If I am not mistaken. Pgoros is simply nobody to come and say things of that nature. La ignorancia es atrevida. What an arrogant SOB.  The Freak is married to a Peruvian woman and has lived in Peru for six years. He hasn’t yet grasped he subtleties of the way Peruvians relate to each other. He is worried about us calling each other: Negro, Chino, Cholo, Gringo and etc. He even said that his wife was of a mix race as to distant himself from being called a racist. But he worries too much about racism. He may be newly converted racist that has some leftover crap within. Anglo Saxon can be really racist people; they repress it but still there. Let me be forthcoming in this regards and tell you that I bet that he had to ‘explain’ his wife to family and friends. Anglo Saxons have a lot to learn from us in terms of race relations even though we have still a lot to learn and a long way to go to reach equality. Racism is widespread and is definitely a variable playing, strongly, against the regularization of the undocumented in the U.S. Read the following and consider the hypothetical:  Most undocumented in the U.S. are Hispanics of Mexican origin. If Sweden would have been the country south of the U.S. and Swedish people the undocumented we wouldn’t have any problems. They would have been given not a green card but the citizenship.  Many Brits and many Americans are quiet racists. My best American lady friend and that loves me like a son turns purple when speaking on the issue of the undocumented. There is a well known Brit that heads www.vdare.com that shows up on TV every now and then that contends that the U.S. is getting too brown and that we need to reverse the trend. People will argue for hours and hours that illegal is illegal and the laws have been broken and that is the end of the argument. The Freak has said that a slow massive deportation scheme might work… this has been also ruled out a long time ago. The game is to be politically correct and to never express the real reasons behind the arguments. It is a game. Whatever solution they come up with is said to be an AMNESTY. It doesn’t matter if they have to pay fines or if they have to go to the end of the line, which is fair, to regularize their status. They do not speak about the system that has been designed to trap these people in, to exploit them to the benefit of a few and to the detriment of the local and federal governments. The selective application of the law is a tool to control; the control is the hands of ruling majority.  Is the Freak Mother Theresa? To soften his appearance he has told us that he has feed poor Peruvians and helped poor people. I congratulate him for doing that.  Probably dragged by his Peruvian wife to perform humanitarian work now he feels even more empowered to shoot his nasty verbiage at us, Peruvians. I considered Peruvians to be, for the most part, well mannered, warm and friendly people. My experience in the US has showed me that sometimes a well mannered, friendly and considerate person can be taken as week. Japanese and Mediterranean Europeans do not react in the same way; they appreciate someone being courteous and well mannered. The Freak is taking us for granted and thinks he can play with us at his will. His ridiculous points of view are to be taken and don’t even dare to contradict his highness. What a pathetic being. This guy does not understand reasons. I insist that had you been in my high school and had you said half of what you had said in this thread….I would have kicked your miserable @ss and make you a better person. Bullies are deep inside cowards. You probably cry like a little girl when facing danger. Regarding the AYAYERA that cheers this abnormal being: She does not understand that cheering the FREAK amounts to cheering the insults he has thrown on to us. IF you don’t understand this, what can I do? I reject your ridiculous stance in cheering the freak. If you keep on insisting in your AYAYERISM, I will have no choice but to address you again.  The Freak has mold and tool making background. He is a rude blue collar with little or no background in the Human Sciences. Nothing will condone your rude and unjust way to address us. Wise up old man, ask your wife to teach you how to be a better person, continue your charitable work but don’t speak about it. That is the beauty of it.  To finish, I wish that TPS is granted to all Peruvians living in the U.S. and they continue to work hard and prosper. We are all ambassadors to Peru in the U.S. Don’t let people like the Freak bother you. If someone talks down on you protest and reject and keep on working harder, smarter and better. Ladran Sancho? Señal de que caminamos.... 

# pgoros says :
28 September, 2007 [ 07:04 ]

Ekeko.... just a few points:

1) I'm not anglo-saxon. I'm mediterranean.
2) most of the volunteer work I did were my own ideas.
3) every statement you just wrote is out of context. Now THAT's rude!

And yes, I've made my argument here, made peace hopefully with some that I argued with, and I'm now done with the issue. If you want to continue writing and making an immense oaf out of yourself in the process, you're welcome to do so. You're only helping to portray everyone on your side as a bunch of raging lunatics, which is not fair to those who really aren't raging lunatics and want to make good pro-TPS points.

You've failed... unless you think wasting a lot of typing time spewing nonsense is a good thing...

# Ekeko says :
28 September, 2007 [ 11:51 ]

Pgoros,

What happened to you? You got tired of cutting and pasting? Running out of steam? Got tired of your unjustified insults? Got exposed? Can't handle it anymore?  Is the mental break down haunting you? You made your argument? What argument? You did not succeed in trying to put down anybody. Go ahead and run with your tail between your legs.

Every body here knows what a  low-life scum you are. Your comments were never welcomed. You came here to insult and to unload recycled arguments. Nothing you said had any consistency, just the distorted view of a mind with conflicts. You have not contributed with any new ideas. Just your black and white approach to a complex problem. The world is not black and white. Following your line of thought The Bastille would have never been taken and the slaves never been freed.

Your approach was filthy your ideas pathetic but you have the right to have them. The only thing you should have done, a long time ago was to apologize for your filth. Most people here will probably forgive. I'll take my time for that.

What you did was no mistake. You did it intentionally. Go f*ck yourself is my message to you. I have gotten to know your kind and this is the best way you ought to be treated. You deserve no more.

# LUCY URBAN says :
28 September, 2007 [ 15:52 ]

Ekeko, firstable I never call anyone names like you do, if I did cheering to Pogoros? yes I did, I said no matter what we say about the Illegals you all taking out content, I never make fun of anyone, am I'm not talking about Peruvian,  we're talking about been Illegals, no matter where they are coming from, Ok ? lots of people are waiting in line for many years, to enter the country, they're respecting the law , of course you all don't see that way, an just because we have different views about this subject doesn't make us monsters or Freaks or low life poeple, I thought we do too have the right to our oppinion, secondable 
you made an example about Swedish people, they may get the green card or the Citizenship with no questions ask? you're very wrong ! doesn't work that way!! Illegals are Illegals!! you just say where ever you want, with no facts, do you think because they are Europeans, will be that easy? not really, my husband could not live his country for 5 years while processing all his paper work, he become LEGAL resident, then wait for 5 YEARS to get his Citizenship, same way with the rest of
his family, so, don't tell me you do know better than anyone else. So be a bit respectful to thers, doesn't cost much to be one.

Hava a good one !!

# americorps says :
28 September, 2007 [ 20:46 ]

# LUCY URBAN says :
28 September, 2007 [ 15:52

...an just because we have different views about this subject doesn't make us monsters or Freaks or low life poeple,...

*********************************

 

Lucy,

 

I am glad you live a life of privelage where your children are not starving or living in a place so dangerous that they can no play outside, but I find it unfortunate that you are so heartless about those not as privelaged as you.

and THAT is what makes you ...see above.

# Fano says :
29 September, 2007 [ 02:01 ]

You guys are the most colorful chat room ever!!

Keep it up..it gets more interesting

and who is winning the battle in this virtual world?

# LUCY URBAN says :
29 September, 2007 [ 14:04 ]

Americorps, I'm not refering to you at all, I don't want to waste my time exchanging anything with you all, so wherever you have to say about me, we lived as that, because YOU are the most abnoxious person of all, thats all I have to say.

# pgoros says :
29 September, 2007 [ 16:06 ]

Lucy, I'm offended! If anyone's obnoxious, it is me! :)
(there you go Ekeko, use this revelation I made and run with it)

Don't bother with americorps, he prefers to publicly cry for the world in the hope of getting a virtual hug from someone, rather than actually going out and doing something to make the planet better (the first thing he might want to do is give Ekeko his overdue rabies shot). And if that doesn't work, he pretends to quote some non-existent GAO.

Fano, you want to know who's winning this virtual battle? Obviously it's Ekeko, even after he's already been pummelled to the ground and everyone's gone home already, he still manages to pick himself up and swing his arms around wildly looking for someone to slap. When he realizes he's slapping only himself, maybe he'll stop. That probably won't happen though, he's like a goldfish in a little round glass bowl that doesn't realize it's just swimming around in circles. Add to this that in comparison to Ekeko, the goldfish is smart. Who knows what's going on in that little brain of his?

Ekeko, instead of me proving (yet again) how much of an idiot you are with your caveman-style rantings (no offense to any cavemen out there, I know you guys wouldn't want to deal with a personality as prehistoric as Ekeko either), I will instead wish you a good weekend, lord knows you need a good rest after getting yourself so beat up in this debate. Knowing you though, you'll probably keep acting like a goldfish in a round bowl, so I look forward to soon reading more rabid thoughts from you (all off-topic and irrelevant of course).

By the way, your mom's looking for you, you're late for your lunch.

# Erika says :
29 September, 2007 [ 16:10 ]

Julio C., you just make me sad.  I can't believe that a Peruvian would say the things you do. 
You obviously can't see that the earthquake that affected Pisco and the other cities nearby WILL affect the country as a whole.
Those areas have been almost destroyed completely, their destroyed economies will directly affect the economy of the country as a whole.

The only people that are taking advantage of this tragedy are those people that steal the donations that are sent to the families in need. Hundreds of cities around the US have been collecting money to send to these areas... let's just hope that this money DOES make it to its destiny and doesn't get "lost" on the way.

We can't make much of a difference if we go back to Peru... We won't have jobs, so how in the h*ll will we be able to contribute??? Be realistic... that's the reason for which most of us left in the first place, because THERE WERE NO OPPORTUNITIES!!!
Do you really want to add half a million people to the unemploymet rate???? I think not...

# Rev_ [NZ]owner says :
29 September, 2007 [ 20:53 ]

Well said & true Erika: We will let these people on here say & believe in what ever they want too,while the the rest of us all over the world continue quitely in the back-ground,to give our gracious time, resources and support into furthering\continuing contributing to trying our best to give our assistance in all ways needed to help the Perana people of this nation serverely effected by the past Natural Dissaster, irrespect of the pitfalls & demises that tend to set imbalance in the world today.
  On a final note,the issue of,  TPS for Peruvians has  [ Global & Worldwide Support ] and this might be the key to Succession of Legal Status under Humanitarian and Indiginess Rights.

Before i go,one thing that needs to be remembered by all out there  [these people] The Peruvian Culture are not  [Aliens] they are people.(no different then you & i)so take it from me,we will make\look at you ses as Aliens in my country and the rest of the World eyes  also.

# Rev_ [NZ]owner says :
29 September, 2007 [ 20:54 ]

Well said & true Erika: We will let these people on here say & believe in what ever they want too,while the the rest of us all over the world continue quitely in the back-ground,to give our gracious time, resources and support into furthering\continuing contributing to trying our best to give our assistance in all ways needed to help the Perana people of this nation serverely effected by the past Natural Dissaster, irrespect of the pitfalls & demises that tend to set imbalance in the world today.
  On a final note,the issue of,  TPS for Peruvians has  [ Global & Worldwide Support ] and this might be the key to Succession of Legal Status under Humanitarian and Indiginess Rights.

Before i go,one thing that needs to be remembered by all out there  [these people] The Peruvian Culture are not  [Aliens] they are people.(no different then you & i)so take it from me,we will make\look at you ses as Aliens in my country and the rest of the World eyes  also.

# LUCY URBAN says :
29 September, 2007 [ 22:25 ]

Pgoros, hi, you're right, I'm not going to bother with this particular person anymore, since I'm a "Heartless individual" he just don't get tired of repeting himself, over and over with the same phrase , he just seeing his way, "his way is the only way" at least he is persistant .
Too bad this people don't see the whole picture, they all have one thing in common, is attaking, insulting and shouting at the rest not sharing there ideas, oh well .

Have a nice day !

# Randy Cloward says :
29 September, 2007 [ 22:48 ]

I am a new reader to Living in Peru and while I have only had a moment to scan the comments in this debate, I believe they are an excellent summary of the much larger debate that is taking place at a seemingly increasing level of intensity here in the US.  I am an American about to retire after a 20+ year business career doing consulting with major US corporations including some of those leading the economic tsunami we call “globalization”.   In 1979-80, I was in Peru for a period of time and while I fell in love with the country, it was a very sad experience.  I saw rampant homelessness, economic malaise, a political environment that was obsessed with nationalism and wealth redistribution.  Over the years, I have followed Peru’s economic plight and have been very pleased with the emergence of entrepreneurism and economic vigor.   I recently traveled to Peru to see for myself, what I considered to be an economic miracle. I traveled from Lima to Arequipa and finally to a small district in Cuzco called Coporaque.  What I saw EXCEEDED even my most optimistic expectations.   In Lima I saw business everywhere, Peruvian grown and multinational.  I saw 9-year kids selling cellular service and pitching a wide range of products and services with enthusiasm and a work ethic that has long ago disappeared in the US.   In Coporaque, a district that was written about in El Comercio as impoverished and dying, I attended a regional economic development forum where business and community leaders rallied to demonstrate their vision and business plans for the future.  It was very much like any one of the thousands of business forums I have attended in the US and Europe, with powerpoint presentations, booths proudly displaying products and business plans, people chatting deals on cell phones.  The major difference was that a number of the participants were not wearing shoes!!!! As far as contributing to this discussion, I would like to make the following points: #1   There are 12 million undocumented Latinos living in the US, because WE lured them here.  We as citizens are equally responsible as the companies that hire them because WE demand an assortment of cheap food in our grocery stores, low prices at Walmart, inexpensive luxury homes and cheap labor to mow our lawns, clean our homes and watch our children while we are out enjoying the fruits of dual income lifestyle. #2  Sure they broke the law to come here.  I would break the law to feed my children if necessary, our Founding Fathers broke the law when they wrote the declaration of independence and dumped tea in Boston harbor, Rosa Parks broke the law when she refused to go to the back of the bus.  LAWS are meant to serve the people, not the people to serve the laws.  Civil disobedience is often the only means of preserving our liberties and the notion that “ALL men are created equal”.  Not just those who happened to be born in the US. #3 We are facing a generational crisis in this country as 79 million baby boomers move from the ranks of workers to Social Security recipients.  When Social Security began in 1946, there were 43 workers paying into the program to support every retiree.  Today there are 3 and when the boomers retire in full swing, there will be only 2.  Not only do we need Latinos to service our rampant consumerism, we need an expanding workforce, legal, and on the books paying into the social entitlements we have given ourselves!!!!  The current mood against immigration is not only xenophobic and racist, it is self destructive to the collective well being of our country!#4  All that being said, I agree with many of the comments in this discussion, that Peruvians living in the US or considering emigrating consider the incredible opportunities available in Peru today.  Peru is enjoying a growth rate of 6+% while the US is going to be lucky to stay above 2% with the current credit crisis.  In the US with the dominance of large corporations in every business segment from retail to professional services, there are increasingly few opportunities for entrepreneurship and growth.  While the middle class in America is experiencing flat incomes and jobs lost to outsourcing, the middle class in emerging markets like Peru is exploding and creating 10,000’s of real opportunities for entrepreneurs and professionals alike. So, I say to all those who resent the increasing presence of Latinos in the US, mow your own lawn, grow your own garden for food and shop at the expensive mom and pop stores that don’t import foreign goods or employee foreign works.  Put your actions behind your rhetoric. To those Latinos who are feeling increasing unwanted in the US, come back to Peru and start a small business and thrive while the American are floundering to compete.  I am putting my actions behind my beliefs and returning to Peru to lend my experience to any Peruvian entrepreneur that will listen.  I am doing because Peruvians are very innovative, hard working and moral.  I will do everything to ensure that this is their century and help them attain their well-deserved seat at the table.    

# Erika says :
29 September, 2007 [ 23:15 ]

Randy Cloward, thank you for your comment.  You make VERY valid points that no one else seems to realize.

I wish every American could read yout comment.

# Gloria says :
30 September, 2007 [ 00:28 ]

I agree with Randy Cloward...As Peruvian i Think It is OUR TIME, OUR MOMENT we have the opportunnity to change our mind and look into our country.. As the wise italian Antonio Raimondi who lived in Peru for 40 years and who wrote a book called ""El Peru" , he said his famous phrase: "Peru is a beggar seated in a gold bank" (what did he want to say?) for meditation...we need to believe in ourselves , we can get it if we want to, we can start Now!

# americorps says :
30 September, 2007 [ 03:48 ]

I agree with Randy as well, he is not a racist souless monster like Lucy and  dumb like pgoros who thinks evacuating 12 million people out of the US economy would have no serious effect on the country.

Thank you for a voice of reason, much better than Lucy and Pgoros' garbage.

# peloflex says :
30 September, 2007 [ 15:17 ]

Very well said, Randy.

Attention Luis Caceres.... I trully hope that you get the most out of this lesson and do as much to immitate Randy's style of persuation. You could go from villian to hero.

Lucy Urban, I think is time for your to relocate your knee pads. I look forward to hear your comments. Specially about your take on the last four lines of his post.

Pgoros, I really have no hard feelings towards you, since you have demostrated that you are not the permanent corrosive acid that you first appear to be and Im happy for you.

To everyone else in here, I thank you for all your time put into this forum. I have definitely learned a lot from it.

Que Viva el Peru!

Peloflex.

Pd. who needs custom made packaging machinery in Peru?.... I will build it for you at a reasonable price.... hahaa!

# Ekeko says :
30 September, 2007 [ 20:41 ]

Hello Randy,  

 

What a refreshing entry the one of yours. A very well put account of what is the reality as I see it. I don’t think I could have said it any better. You, in my opinion, understand the problem of the undocumented immigrants in the US. Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans do not.  

 

Randy’s views on moving to Peru are very interesting to me. I have been considering in returning to Peru after, or even before, retirement. After having worked for over 20 years and contributed to the progress of the U.S., it seems nothing but fair to go back to Peru and do as well.

My best regards to you and good luck ahead.

# Ekeko says :
30 September, 2007 [ 20:43 ]

Hello Randy,  

 

What a refreshing entry the one of yours. A very well put account of what is the reality as I see it. I don’t think I could have said it any better. You, in my opinion, understand the problem of the undocumented immigrants in the US. Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans do not.  

 

Randy’s views on moving to Peru are very interesting to me. I have been considering in returning to Peru after, or even before, retirement. After having worked for over 20 years and contributed to the progress of the US, it seems nothing but fair to go back to Peru and contribute to its progress.

My best regards to you and good luck ahead

# Ekeko says :
30 September, 2007 [ 21:58 ]

Peloflex,

Hi peloflex, how are you? Seems like this thread is going to quiet down.
I have read your comments and we seem to agree in many points. We also have another thing in common. We work in the same field. I have designed custom automatic machines for many years. In fact I have done just that since 1992 until two years ago. I am now designing instrumentation for a leading company that deals with immunoassays, blood and urine analysers. The field of custom automatic machine is a lot more demanding and stressful. If you are interested in talking about our field, and other stuff, email me at: lacarlin@beckman.com

Regards to you

# Randal Cloward says :
30 September, 2007 [ 22:10 ]

And i am interested in developing contacts with anyone who has an interest in business development and economic growth in Peru. I would love to hear from ekeko, peloflex and any other interesting reader.
randy@trigoladventures.com

# peloflex says :
1 October, 2007 [ 20:08 ]

Ekeko,

This could probably be one of those scary coincidences... but I think we might know each other from a while back. I explain.

After looking at your e-address, I recognized your name and you will confirm that if you tell me that the name of the company you used to work for was AMTEC?... then you are the same person that I think you are... wouldnt that be something?

Going back to talking about our common field, yes! that's interesting that you worked so many years doing the same thing that I do and for what you are mentioning (demanding and stressful) seems like you really got deep into it. Just about a year ago my level of stress went so high that I started getting total black-out events... not funny!... the fact that these projects are so uncertain makes it hard to deal with.

The closest that I got to work on the medical field (automation) is just a few months ago, I designed and built a complete system for handling plastic vials for AMGEN here near my town, you probalby know who they are. The system does, feeding, print and apply labels, filling, uncapping and capping for this little plastic vials. (1-3ml)

Anyway, I dont mean to bore you with long text. I hope everything is going well and yes, is nice that people has calmed down here. We can now talk about more possitive stuff.

Muchos Saludos!

Peloflex

# peloflex says :
1 October, 2007 [ 20:13 ]

Randy,

Thanks for the invite!

I will keep your info handy.

Saludos!

peloflex

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
1 October, 2007 [ 20:39 ]

Pgoros...I hope you are alive...we miss you...yes believe it or not I have suicidal tendencies, LOL

Cheers with Pisco Sour!!

# Ekeko says :
1 October, 2007 [ 21:23 ]

Randy,

Thanks for the invitation. I'll email you and see what's up, you never know.
We'll talk.

# Ekeko says :
1 October, 2007 [ 21:28 ]

Peloflex,

Yes, AMTEC has been one of the companies I have worked for. Actually I did consulting work for them. Could you please help me out here? What company where you working for? Do you know Hadi? Amtec's owner? Please send me an email so we can talk some more.

Greetings

# Randy Cloward says :
1 October, 2007 [ 22:56 ]

So Ekeko and Peloflex, how are you going to work together to pool your immense depth of intellectual capital in specialized packaging and share it with entrepreneurs back in Peru? I will help you write the business plan.

# peloflex says :
2 October, 2007 [ 14:47 ]

Randy,

At this point Im dedicating most of my time and energy to the automation of "produce" packaging, mostly for strawberries and grapes. Machines that could definitely be of good use in our country, but considering the low cost of human labor, that represents quite a bit of challenge to go passed the justification barrier.

But Im sure there are some other ideas that have always been floating around our heads that could be put to work, plus I have a very solid network of people back home that we could use whenever is required.

Let's keep in touch then, I am writing an email to you so you would have all my information at close reach as well.

Best regards!

peloflex

# harold says :
3 October, 2007 [ 12:30 ]

VERy WELL SAID RANDY....

I guess we will waiting for someone like you to explain the real facts of this TOPIC,

I am one of those who would benefit from the TPS program, but if I dont get it, I have already a plan "B" to go back to Peru and take the whole of the chances peru has with his growing ECONOMY., You now wath ?? is not me..... Are my children the motor of everything I do. as my illegal stay in this country. just a father would understand wath I say and wath I did.

Thanks again for clarifying everything . you make a great cotribution to this foro, since we are not hopeless anymore if our TPS wont be granted/.

Julio caceres you burn in HELL!!!!! but before learn from RANDY..

# V. Johansen says :
3 October, 2007 [ 19:38 ]

I'm knew to this forum, did not know that Peruvians could react the way you all reacted, very ugly, with the few of the readers non sharing your ideas, dilema , ect, ect, do you think that calling ugly names , calling racist and freaks and all that, you all going to solve this kind of  problems? it is too bad that this kind of mentality still come from men against others, especially,women. This only means that your views are the perfect ones, the rest should be ignore? as an American married to a Peruvian, this is undespicable!! besides we're talking here about been Illegal nothing else .

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
3 October, 2007 [ 20:10 ]

Johansen, the comments of the racists here are not ignored, they are just wrong, and have no place in modern societies. Of course we welcome anybody to contribute to this forum when they have something constructive and realistic to say.

You are just making such a big drama out of this matter, stop whinning!!.

Speaking of illegal. Bush should be facing jail time for his crime wars too when his presidency is over. Wasn't the invasion of Iraq ILLEGAL?.

# V. Johansen says :
3 October, 2007 [ 20:27 ]

Alejandro, do you live in USA? besides we are not talking about Iraq, we're talking about Illegals, [not fighting a war] as you call whining? no I'm not, I just call what it's, been out of control, using insults ! simple as is. I could imagine you fighting with people when you don't get your way, thats all I could say.

Bye

# Alejandro Monteverde says :
3 October, 2007 [ 20:37 ]

Johansen, as a matter of fact I do live in the USA. And yes some comments were out of context, but there were some serious provocations that needed to be answered accordingly. Sometimes diplomacy doesn't work specially when you dela with people that are aggravating your honor. But let's concentrate on the forest and forget the isolated trees. So what is your position about the matter being discussed here?

# peloflex says :
4 October, 2007 [ 02:16 ]

Dear Johansen,

Regardless of your pointless entry.... If I was you?  I wouldnt call myself an American unless I would learn first to write in proper English ...

I honestly think that if you came in here snifing your nose and saying  "eew!".. you are just trying to stir the big "S" for no reason...this forum is quiet now and we would like to keep it this way.

With all due respect.

peloflex

# V. Johansen says :
4 October, 2007 [ 15:22 ]

Alejandro, since you live in USA, if you don't like the way the President of the United States is fighting this war an since you calling Invasion of the Iraq country, you should it left the Country long time ago, but I'm assuming you live here with confort, while our Soldiers are fighting to keep this Country with the Fredom we all deserved, that is what I call convenient!! The matter is been Illegal, enter a country with out proper entry, is the subject in this Forum, is in it?

Peloflex, you are an arrogant individual, who is talking about writing in proper English? you ? like I say before, attacking is the only way you know how to solved this kind of problems or any problems? this is a very inmature approach ,sound to me, you are bitter. So, you are telling me I don't have a say in this forum ? how convenient .
Anyway, have a wonderful day !

# Ekeko says :
4 October, 2007 [ 17:03 ]

Hi Peloflex, Hi Alejandro:

I don't think Johansen is for real. This guy can't be American. He may not be even a guy..."he" may be Lucy Urban. The writing style and reasoning seems very much alike. If I were any of you I wouldn't bother.
Good bye and good luck.

# Ronald C says :
4 October, 2007 [ 17:25 ]

I thought that this was a discussion about the
TPS.

What happened

# Peruvian C.S. says :
4 October, 2007 [ 18:04 ]

I was wondering about that,[myself] the site is okay,its just the personal attitudes,getting in the way and getting away from the main debate and is not being of any benefit to the demise s this Topic faces of the concerns we all like air as our opinion.Give it a break,as no one interested,we'll just go right around your discussion. Peace........

# peloflex says :
4 October, 2007 [ 18:47 ]

Johansen,

You better make up your mind for good. I have never seen so much contradiction coming from the same person.

First of all, Yes! my English is far from being good, but at least I dont call myself American... I am Peruvian. And maybe in a couple of years after I get my American citinzenship... I will still consider myself a Peruvian.... maybe even 30 years later... I will still think and call myself very proudly, a Peruvian!  .. unlike you who carries a European last name and can hardly express in English... you think you are American?... what a joke! you have no identity and that's a shame. A shame to your own people.

Secondly, you said I just know how to attack? well, go back to your very first post and see who is the one attacking who?... You came in here attacking us peruvians saying we are this and that.... true or false? I am not arrogant, I just fight fire with fire.

Lastly, you tell Alejandro that if He doesnt like what the US goverment is doing in Irak He should leave the country?... well, I say to you that if you came in here to this forum and you didnt like us Peruvians and how we participate on this debate... you should just leave this forum and go make faces some where else.

Just one more thing Mr. American..... please tell me what does the war in Irak has to do with Freedom??? HA! how old are you?... 12?

Hello Ekeko, sorry, I couldnt help it.

Saludos!

peloflex

# V. Johansen says :
4 October, 2007 [ 20:07 ]

Do you question my identity? if am a man or female or Lucy or a 12 years old, happens , what contradiction? as for my English I was tryng to be as simple as can be,  my fault, so know you think  am not good at it, it is easy to make assumptions about some else, even when you don't know that person, what can I say .You can't came up with any valid answer, when it comes to define whats called been Illegal ,  simple, here in America everything has a name, if it is Illegal , we do called Illegal, with don't sugar coated . As far as the War in Iraq is concern , yes, this Country need to fight back with Terrorist ! No I'm not a Peruvian, am European, also an American Citizen along with the rest of family . You are all bunch of bullies, very sure you can interact with each other, every time you hear the word Illegals you all get crazy !! I rather talk with a cement wall.
Very happy to leave this trash forum, for good.
YOU ALL HAVE A PLEASANT DAY, bye, bye

         TWO DECENT AND HONORABLE POEPLE SHOULD RATIONALLY 
        COULD CONFRONT THEIR DIFFERENCES OVER SERIOUS ISSUES
                   
  

# katrina says :
4 October, 2007 [ 20:11 ]

Yes Johansen is definately Lucy Urban..hehe..I'm sure of it too funny this is getting halerious..lol!!

It's all getting kinda wacky!!  Entertaining is another word to describe it too.

I take the TBS issue very seriously but recent comments on this forum have forgotten the main issue that started this topic & have made it into their own personal matter trying to win the argument so to speak a bit like Days fo Our Lives actually But will the soapie every end??!! 
To be continued??  Lets see.....

Peace & respect to all!!  Please!!

# katrina says :
4 October, 2007 [ 20:27 ]

p.s. TPS

# peloflex says :
4 October, 2007 [ 21:00 ]

Johansen....

The reason why I think you are a 12 years old is because I asked you to explain how do you relate Irak and terrorism?... seems like you live in a total different world. The war in Irak has a total different motive... but I think that could be a little too much for you to digest.

You talking to a cement wall would make MUCH MORE SENSE than you trying to make a valid point in this forum.... so go for it! I wont be watching you.

# Ernesto says :
6 October, 2007 [ 12:22 ]

Well i´ve been looking at this comments from the first one til´the last one. Peruvians just care about themselves, we are a loadshit as a country, that´s why we are what we are: shit!! i´m pissed cos´even peruvians that are citizens or residents on the US look at that potencial TPS as a threating act, because they were lucky to enter the US in the 80´s or have some relatives living on this country for years, now is not possible that many peruvians (yeah peruvians!!) will possibly get a legal status in the US, just cos´they don´t deserve it, cos´they´ll be as legals as these gringos wanna be CHOLAZOS are! I tell you what, if half a millions of peruvians´d adjust their status, that´d make their families get better aim or help from their relatives on the US, that´d make more peruvians get better jobs to support their families and study on american soil and so have more chances to get better oportunities to have what they didn´t have in peru. One thing! If this TPS would get aproved at least all these people should pay a tax for the ones affected by mother nature in peru. 

# peloflex says :
6 October, 2007 [ 13:48 ]

Maybe these group of selfish "legal" peruvians... just find it very convenient for these other group of illegals to stay that way... being illegals... that way they can continue to have someone to point fingers at... that's the only way they can feel better about themselves... cause they can't do it based on their own efforts and merits.   HOW SAD!

# kelvin says :
11 October, 2007 [ 19:54 ]

all i have to say is .. when that thing happend with el salvador and nicaragua .. united state . gave them tps .. so i think they should do the samething for peru .. .  arriba peruuuu !!!!!!!! 

# kelvin says :
11 October, 2007 [ 19:57 ]

ilegal people aint no criminals .. we are normal people ..who trying to have a good future and give their kids some food to eat since we dont have any from where we came from .. aleast they should give it to peru  for the earthquake ..   bushh pleasee help us out ..

# kelvin says :
11 October, 2007 [ 20:03 ]

we still not even safe .. we still getting low level earthquakes .. ( temblores ) .. we not safe ..  i defenility agree with the tps ..

# Erika says :
11 October, 2007 [ 20:06 ]

Most Peruvians came to the US with a tourist visa and overstayed the time that they were granted to stay.
These people are NOT considered crimminals under the US law.


People have a problem, they think that every immigrant that is undocummented came through the border.

People who came through the border aren't bad either, but there IS a difference between coming with a visa and crossing the border illegaly.

# Rev_NZ says :
12 October, 2007 [ 01:32 ]

Hi all: just wanted to stick my 2 cent in, most of you ses have your hearts in the right place on this Topic,irrespects of how we challenge one another over issue s,we feel strongly about,to find a simple resolution to what would be most preferential to all who have been limited to equal rights to being allowed too and being able to have opportunitys to having a life and building a future,for themselves & their families,within the bounds of this country USA, acknowledging  Peruvian as being Legalized citizen as to being in that country. Lets hope  Realistic  common sence prevail to allow TPS to be given to these People. America has to realize that this situation will never be contained,no matter how much they try to not acknowledge their responsabilities of what is commonly a better option for all. The Judge will do what is right in his discession.  Go TPS

# JORGE says :
14 October, 2007 [ 10:24 ]

I think that the request of Alan Garcia, President of Peru requires a timely response. Peru need that the peruvians citizen in USA have the opportunity to work and send dollars for rebuilding the zones affected for the earthquake. This is the moment to do it if seriously they think to help Peru.

# mariella says :
15 October, 2007 [ 19:41 ]

An illegal point of view....

Is the TPS for Peru  a shame?  activists are using this disgrace to try and get papers for illegal immigrants?
Of course, the answer is YES. Do I care? No.
I just want to have the chanche to go back to Peru and visit my family, I just want to see my streets again. And of course be able to come back. Now, this does not mean by any chance that i do not care about what happened in Ica. Living here you feel the pain even more. If I am granted with the TPS i will morre than ever support Peru.
If you think this is pitty.I do not care either. I just speaking my mind and my heart.
And for all of you thet think that we can work in Peru, get around...see what really is going on. if you woundnt have nothing to eat you would it done the exactly same thing.
It easy to talk when you have your house, your food and your dog ....

# StrommyT says :
18 October, 2007 [ 14:04 ]

All passions aside, if there was going to be TPS for Peru, it would have already happened.  Grants of TPS generally happen within a few days after a catasrophe.  The granting of TPS for Salvadorans happened less than 10 days after the storm.  There is also a bigger picture.

The USCIS (The folks in the USA who have to actaully process the applications) are completely swamped and are not capable of taking on another 500,000 applications right now.  Unfortunate? Yes.  Fair?  No. But these are the nuts and bolts of the considerations right now.

Also, the Congress is in the process of completing passage of the FTA with Peru.  A granting of TPS will not help the FTA to gain passage.

President Bush wants this agreement passed very badly.  Right now, he will not do anything that would possibly jeapordize its passage.  He has just gotten the House of Representatives to overcome their objections to the agreement.

# valerie says :
18 October, 2007 [ 21:20 ]

seriously u guys have wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much time in ur hands!!!!!!!!!!!!
do something productive for a change and stop arguing about something that none (not a single one of u) can change. JUST LET IT GO

# mariella says :
18 October, 2007 [ 21:46 ]

StrommyT

Actually the waiting period for a TPS answer is about 45 days.
Tomorrow is going to be 45 days since the Peruvian goverment ask the USA for TPS.

# will says :
19 October, 2007 [ 02:13 ]

Hi julio it seem that your life is full of anxiaties and regrets plz don't call yourself peruvian
all your words are nothing but meaningless .frankly you should go to the army and become a man..
you need to suffer , to know what is like being in nesesity
don't be a bastard and think as if you have every anwers for evey commnet on the issue

# Ron says :
19 October, 2007 [ 08:36 ]

The TPS is a decision of the US Government.
We still have our hopes, and a chance to make it.
Lets pray and wait.

# StrommyT says :
22 October, 2007 [ 11:47 ]

Mariella,  since I practice immigration law in Washington,DC and do this for a living, I took the time to actually speak with one of the officials at the USCIS headquarters in DC who specializes in the TPS program this morning.  I was informed that there is no serious consideration currently, nor has their  been any serious consideration to granting TPS for Peru.  Was told quite bluntly that the earthquake was not severe enough and there is no political pressure to make a grant to TPS.

# Randy Cloward says :
22 October, 2007 [ 19:12 ]

Well, that settles that, thank you StrommyT.  I can't imagine anyone is surprised?  I hope, nevertheless, that the constructive elements of this debate continue in this forum or another I can be invited to.  My take is that immigration reform is but one piece of a very complex and historically significant puzzle we call Globalization. 

# Ron says :
22 October, 2007 [ 19:55 ]

A rumor does not settle anything.

On the latest news (posted by YChavez on this site)

Press Release

Para su difusión inmediata: Contactos:     Sergio Massa            305-220- 3420 Dr. Aristo Carranza    908-482-7777 Norberto Curitomai    973-881-9133     11 De Octubre De 2007   Gestión por TPS avanza   Las autoridades encargadas de dar el TPS, Estado de Protección Temporal, para los inmigrantes peruanos en los Estados Unidos, han manifestado que el pedido está siendo monitoreado muy de cerca por sus agencias pertinentes. Por lo tanto, es necesario unir esfuerzos de los peruanos a nivel nacional para solventar los gastos de una compañía de cabildeos en Washington DC a favor del TPS. Se espera que este trabajo  logre resultados favorables en el tiempo más breve posible. Es así que la comunidad peruana en Connecticut,  en el "II Fórum  tri-estatal de Peruanos en la Política" auspiciado por el Asambleísta Estatal de CT Felipe Reinoso, en esta asamblea se acordó por unanimidad apoyar las acciones de PAPO USA, y  hacer una campaña de recolección de fondos, llamada "Un Dólar por el Perú" la cual será administrada por el mismo asambleísta.   En este fórum el Asambleísta Reynoso entregó las cartas de endorso de Nacional Hispanic Caucus of State Legislators, National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials (NALEO) y National Council of la Raza.   Tenemos que destacar el valioso apoyo del Senador Robert Menéndez respaldado por diez congresistas, a través de una carta enviada al presidente Bush, el 25 de septiembre. Y también la reconfirmación del respaldo de los congresistas Mario Diaz-Balart e Ileana Ros-Lehtinen con visitas hechas en sus oficinas en Washington D.C.   Este martes 09, PAPO USA realizó una tele conferencia con sus filiales a nivel nacional y otras organizaciones participantes. Entre los acuerdos se consideró y aprobó la recolección de fondos  y las mismas filiales empezaron y contribuyeron con donaciones.   El Chairman de Peruvian American Political Organization USA, Sergio Massa, fue invitado por La Casa Blanca en la celebración del mes de la hispanidad y entregó una carta con varios pedidos entre ellos el TPS para los peruanos. La pagina web www.perutps.com está siendo actualizado continuamente, podrán encontrar todas las informaciones referente al TPS, y por favor animen a todos, para enviar una carta  de apoyo al presidente Bus.

# Ron says :
22 October, 2007 [ 20:00 ]

To all Peruvians,

Last night in one of the Univision Forums after the news above were posted, somebody hacked the Peruvian TPS forum and started
posting disinformation articles and tried to get personal contact
information from the members of the forum.

Be very careful.

# Mychael says :
23 October, 2007 [ 16:23 ]

I hope news about the TPS really soon....

# MLL says :
24 October, 2007 [ 09:00 ]

Hello there! Is there any news about the TPS? Do you think is time to forget about it? Or we can keep our hopes up? I've been reading the entries in this forum and they've been a bit discouraging...specially all the people fighting and calling each other names and all that...Well, if there's somebody that really knows what's going on about the TPS, please let us all know...Thanks.

# George Smith says :
24 October, 2007 [ 13:08 ]

TPS is coming for peruvians folks...it is the only thing I know. They deserve this privilege coz they're hard workers, honest people who come to this country to make it better.

# CARLOS says :
24 October, 2007 [ 17:08 ]

October 24th and Where the hell is the TPS?, i am getting tire to be waiting for ......................

# Ron says :
25 October, 2007 [ 08:09 ]

Happy and Hopeful

waiting for the TPS

# Victor says :
26 October, 2007 [ 17:54 ]

I know is taking  a little longer than we tought but I am pretty sure we will get IT.


TPS for all peruvians !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vitor

# gugu says :
2 November, 2007 [ 11:32 ]

Que barbaridad!!!    siempre hay un roto para un descosido!!!  Los unicos a los que nos intereza el tsp  NO matter Wha !!!  son los que vivvimos aqui a si es que  a palabras  necias oidos sordos ....envidiositos.......  el tlc llego   para todos los peruanos   y aqui nos alegramos , el tps llegara tambien     pero que se alegren  algunos lo dudo...

  que  DIOS los guarde

# Lucio says :
4 November, 2007 [ 18:39 ]

Muestra tu apoyo al pueblo peruano, Gracias. 


     www.actuayaperutps.com

# TPS says :
4 November, 2007 [ 20:03 ]

http://www.actuayatpsperu.com/

# victor says :
9 November, 2007 [ 13:20 ]

i understand how upsetting is tobe  wainting for the tps.
but takes time hopefully we will get it.
the usa goverment should understand is better not leave behind theirs freinds.
friends who can actually be a big help in the fight against terror.like our peruvian goverment.we like democracy
lets be patience...and to those who are trying to hack my pc...i have change my ip adresse constantly.....good luck
to julio caceres....go and get laid...thats probably what you need

# Rev_[NZ] says :
9 November, 2007 [ 18:35 ]

Hola everyone  anyone have the latest on the TPS Cheers

# Carlito'sWay says :
8 December, 2007 [ 16:37 ]

Well it seems that this discussion has been discontinued but I'll add my two cents anyways. I read through the first 40 or so comments so what i say is in relation to that mainly. To Julio C.: First and foremost, you are right when you speak of law being broken. That is a fact. I overstayed my visa and that is illegal, no argument there, and if you want me to admit that I'd like to get a TPS for purely selfish motives, that I don't even have friends much less relatives in Pisco or any other affected area, well yes, I'll admit it. What I don't think you understand is that I already know that, you're not telling me anything new.

You claim that I should have stayed in Peru and use the money that I used to come here for some kind of unspecified bussines investment, that I should have invested my hours of hard work for soles intead of dollars, and so on a so forth. Well what if I don't want to? Did I ask to be born in Peru? No. Why should I be bound to it for life? I alone will decide where I want to live and where do I want to work and where do I want to raise a family. Of course other people may not want me and will kick me out of their country, and that is all fair. I DO NOT DELUDE MYSELF.

Second, to those dismmissing the earthquake: I am first to acknowledge that the earthquake doesn't compare in magnitude to some other disasters cited here. A couple of honduran friends were telling me just a few days ago about how their whole capital city was flooded during a hurricane. The request for a TPS is a political move, that the legal peruvian community is lobbying for. EVERYBODY knows that, so stop waving statistics around like flaming swords of thruth. That the peruvian community is able to lobby for the TPS is testament enough for its influence and weight. If I, along with the rest of the 500k peruvians living illegally here in the states, are granted legal status via TPS, we will be able to make a bigger contribution. That is what politicians will consider to make their decision. I know many a succesful peruvian just here in South Florida, not to mention relatives who live in the northwestern states. That is our bargaining power, the earthquake is just a mean to start the argument.

If the TPS comes along, great. It would make a lot of things easier for me. If not, well that changes nothing. I will continue to NOT live in Peru for as long as I want and I'm permitted to do so. I will continue working for the improvement of my own life and paying my taxes wether my effort is recognized or not. So stop urging me to go back to my country or to leave yours, you will only make do so at gun point.

# tyeyurturu says :
8 December, 2007 [ 18:07 ]

goo coment carlito

# Julio Caceres says :
8 December, 2007 [ 20:54 ]

Excellent point Carlito, the most intelligent (and honest) comment I've read so far.

# gsg says :
9 December, 2007 [ 00:27 ]

caceres got to hell

you still alive so sad to know that

# MLL says :
9 December, 2007 [ 14:12 ]

Well, beside all the name calling and insults, are there ANY REAL NEWS about TPS?? Do you think is still possible to get it???

# RCV says :
9 December, 2007 [ 16:42 ]

News about TPS.

The TLC with Peru got approved by the house and the senate
just a couple of they ago, the agreement does not enter into
effect until 2009, the politicians and the business men in Peru
and the economy in general will make way more money for them
than the TPS, and they will not jeopardize this millions of dollars
by lobbying for a TPS which gives only a fraction of profit compared
to what the TLC will bring.

So the people that might get benefited by the TPS is screwed
and will have to go back to Peru or remain in the shadows in
the United States.

Good luck everybody,

At least we tried.

# Real Peruvian says :
19 July, 2008 [ 11:13 ]

Hi everyone, i´m a peruvian, who lives in Perú, that´s why i maybe don´t speak so good English and I apologize for that. I think that Ekeko is no more than one of the thousend of peruvians who leaved the country when Perú was in a horrible situation. Obviously Ekeko, you don´t know anything about Perú. Since when are lou living in th US? Today Perú is still having problems of course, but our economy is growing really fast, and our sallaries are getting better. Here there is a big boom in the construction market, and many other stuff.

We (me and my family) decided to stay here in Perú and fight to go on. We took the hard way, and we didn´t leave the country to break the law in other countries. Why? Because I want to teach my children to respect the law and be great citizens. I know many people in my generation who went to the USA in the 80s, and in the USA their kids had a terrible life, living in dangerous neighborhoods, going to bad schools....and also, they where far away from their families and sometimes even didn´t have the chance to came to Perú when their parents died. I think that illegal inmigrants are no more than selfish.  They can´t face their own problems. Running away is not the solution, Ekeko. But it seems like you allready did that.

# Erika says :
19 July, 2008 [ 11:27 ]

Wow... Real Peruvian, you are WAY OFF.

First of all, you're NOT a real Peruvian.
Real Peruvians don't call their compatriotas "selfish" just because they sacrificed themselves in order to give their children a brighter future than the one they cold have had in Peru.

My parents brought me to the US when I was only 12 years old, and let me tell you, it was THE best thing they could have done. I never once lived in a bad neighborhood or went to a dangerous school. I am now attending college and couldn't be happier.

I think you're just sour because you didn't have the pantalones to sacrifice anything for your familily.
Th people that decide to leave their homes behind are braver than you could ever hope to be. My parents gave a lot to their country, and they have absolutely NOTHING to be ashamed of.

How DARE you come and insult us? It's the millions of dollars that WE, those law-breakers as you call us, send every year that have helped revialize the economy.

You owe all of us an apology.

# Carlito says :
20 July, 2008 [ 19:55 ]

If you think we took the easy way bro, you are sorely mistaken. Just think of those people you know; if you think being away from your family in trying times, such as when a close relative passes away, is not hard well, think again. I wouldn't say you chose the hard way or I the easy one, nor the other way around. Choices are what they are, just don't take that self righteous tone with us. Like I said in my previous post, I am fully aware of my transgresion and I have no regrets. I decided how and where I wanted to live and I took the steps towards the realization of that desire. Call yourself real peruvian all you want; I don't feel any less peruvian than you.

# Jorge says :
20 July, 2008 [ 22:37 ]

This TPS is loco. The people that needed help were in Chin Cha. You Call yourselves peruvians in America but did nothing but line your pockets while we live in tents.Now you claim you need to be legal because we suffer. You left peru in good times to line your pockets while we lived hard to make food on our table. You are illegal in america and you are not welcome in peru. You are as Judas. You sold you souls for silver in America. Live there in shame.

# Ekeko says :
21 July, 2008 [ 03:09 ]

Real Peruvian:
You have an attitude towards Peruvian Immigrants to the US, too bad.
I don't have any bad feelings for people like you. We are all different and you are entitled to have your own opinion.

To make a long story short, I came here looking for adventure and had lots of it. I have all my life worked and played hard. I have done a good job so far and will continue to do so. The best is yet to come. If I would be given the chance to do it again I would just work and play harder.

It is good thing to obbey the laws of the land, but never surrender your rights. Read between lines and think outside the cube. The laws are written by people, just like you.

I think that it is sick to wish our undocumented fellow peruvians not to be able to regularize their status. Dont' dwell in negative feelings, what goes around comes around.

# Erika says :
21 July, 2008 [ 10:01 ]

Wow Jorge... bitter much???


Don'tyou forget that Peruvians in the US sent money, clothes, food and many more things to help our fellow Peruvians who were struck by disaster. I guess that doesn't mean anything to you.

You are pathetic.

# Aventajadoysapo says :
21 July, 2008 [ 14:22 ]

Jorge you are just talking nonsense and as Erika syas you are just pathetic.
 
I am sure you are dying to come here, but you can't because you only have money to go as far as Huacho.
I guess it is never late to open your own business in Polvos Azules and sale some DVD pirate copies. I have heard is a good market...and besides that...you don't pay taxes.

# peloflex says :
21 July, 2008 [ 17:56 ]

Real Peruvian,

I have two things for you;

The first one is PLEASE dont call yourself a Real Peruvian.. if you said you have stayed in Peru all of your life, then you have no idea what it is to really love your country and have never experienced having your eyes flooded with tears while listening to our National Autumn... or a "y se llama Peru!...." you dont know what it is to really miss your country and your people.... you chose to live your life as it was and didn't want to dream about experiencing new cultures and new lands... it was again, your choice and I am sure no one here will ever critize your decision.

And the second thing is if you want to teach your children good, teach them love.... love to others and never do show them the bitterness you showed here on your post.

Good Vibes to all!

# Monkey says :
21 July, 2008 [ 23:30 ]

I did not read all of the posts but I am curious as to what you think of the following scenario: a young man from an affluent family who grew up in Chacarilla and went to a prestigious Catholic school for his primary and secondary grades.  He did not graduate from university for some reason. He came to the U.S. on a tourist visa knowing that he would outstay it, he married an American girl for the Green Card (it was an arrangement favorable to her too), though they live in different states.  He works with a false Social Security card.  Also, he is an unrepentant playboy.  Let's say he is not very nice to women.

Does he deserve to stay?  Would he benefit from TPS?  Is he an honorable Peruvian? Is a hardworking peasant from Mexico who sends what little money he makes back home a more sympathetic illegal than this person?

Just curious.

# Miguel Santos says :
22 July, 2008 [ 05:15 ]

Arriba Luis Negreiros Arriba.

Gracias a Dios.

# Erika says :
22 July, 2008 [ 17:41 ]

He wouldn't benefit from the TPS because there is NO TPS (nor will there ever be).

# peloflex says :
22 July, 2008 [ 18:04 ]

who cares about TPS anymore... let's all move back to our country... LAND OF OPPORTUNITIES!!!! hahahaaa

# Phillip says :
25 September, 2008 [ 03:31 ]

The Immigration Debate: Controversy Heats Up, Hispanics Feel a Chill
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/659/immigration-debate

# albertitolimonta says :
24 November, 2009 [ 14:03 ]

what is the biggest fuss about all this?,once more peruvians against peruvians that is why we do not progress here not back in peru,we have to change our mentality,we have to be more unite,that is the only way that we can progress,and be strong against other communities here in usa,does it really matter if you are illegal or legal? honestly?for me not,some of us become legal,that was on many cases pure luck,do not try to put your brother down because he is illegal.on the other hand help him,think as him of somebody who need help,cut the crap on illegal immigration,usa could deport whenewer they want it,the question is why they do not do it?because,they know if they deport all immigrants,where are they going to find cheap labor,workers who work whiout benefits,no medical etc,they need us as much we need them.

# hunter says :
2 December, 2009 [ 14:53 ]

i think the peruvians or latin amreican people should had the righ to be legal in the usa so in the way our country will got better lol.....

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