Living in Peru : your everyday companion

Peru's Defense Ministry to strengthen Armed Forces - $650 million approved

Living in Peru
Israel Ruiz

As the new year began, Peru's Minister of Defense, Ántero Flores-Aráoz, announced that one of the ministry's main goals in 2009 would be to make the country's military more powerful.

He explained that this would be done by purchasing modern equipment for all three branches of the military.

Even though Flores-Aráoz did not give specific information on the kind of equipment that would be bought, he assured it would be of the highest quality and would meet top technological demands.

"Strengthening the Armed Forces is one of the priorities for 2009. Because of security reasons we cannot say what we will purchase," said the head of the Peru's Defense Ministry.

As a part of this objective, Garcia's administration has already approved the "Basic Defense Program", a program that is to invest $650 million between 2009 and 2011 on strengthening the country's Armed Forces.

It was reported that these funds would not only be invested on the officers themselves, but also in ridding the country of the narco-terrorists left in the Apurpímac River Valley.

Despite the money being spent, military leaders are not satisfied with the approval of the plan, however.

The head of Peru's Air Force has assured that $650 million is between 10 and 20 percent of what the Armed Forces needs. He explained that the Andean country's Air Force needed modern fighter jets to keep control of its skies.

Have other topics you'd like to see in our news section? If you or someone you know would like to contribute a news article to Living in Peru, whether it's translated or based on a personal investigation, send it to editor@livinginperu.com.

 | | |

• Food : "Seven Gastronomic Wonders of Peru" Final on July 26th
• Sports : Peru beats Tunisia in U-18 Volleyball Youth World Championship
• Law and Order : EU willing to strengthen anti-drug cooperation with Peru
• Business : Peru's "Astrid y Gastón" considered as an example in the business
• Sports : Peru beat Canada 3 - 0 in Pan American Volley Cup

# Jose says :
3 January, 2009 [ 23:26 ]

It was about time, just to keep up with the pressure from our rich or turbulent neighbors, but what about the education of the soldiers and armed forces, not to mention our children?

# Randy Cloward says :
4 January, 2009 [ 08:29 ]

The absoulte worst educational system in all latin america and $650 million for new toys for the fat militars.  Very sad to see that despite all hubris about advancement and striving for first world status, the Banana Republic mentality prevails again.

# Romano says :
4 January, 2009 [ 09:15 ]

Just to put things into perspective, one should check how much is the educational budget and how much is spent on defense before making any statement.
Randy, the banana rep mentality shall still be with us for some time, but don't worry, it will change as education, health, economy and social issues keep moving forward. By the way, Peru does't have the worst educational system  (have you ever attended a Bolivian or Nicaraguan, or even seen a school at either Panama or Venezuelan?) but more should be done to improve the QUALITY (a long-term and standing issue) of public schools. Several leading public universities are showing ways to do it by involving private actors in the funding. Perhaps it is time to involve them as well at primary and secondary levels.

# Jose says :
4 January, 2009 [ 15:39 ]

I can see a way of achieving both education and defense targets:
Ensure the army is involved with schools, technical institutes and universities (both internal and from abroad, mainly from asia (Korea, China)/US/Europe), to develop infrastrucutre and capacity (know-how), in fields like electric/electronics, mechanics, etc.
Also they can send their best abroad to further expand their knowledge and studies.
Ensure the Army is involved that way in the areas where government is lacking and you'll see a more peaceful and secure country, that can only promote investment.
otherwise let the reds take the univ's and lets go back to the 80's.

# Valente Razurri says :
4 January, 2009 [ 17:42 ]

What Peru need are drones like the ones seen in the middle east conflict. As well a well advanced and technologically superior air force able to attack fast and very deep inside hostile neighbors.
Than combined with a ballistic missile program, is more that enough to dissuade this small southern neighbor.

# Raphael says :
4 January, 2009 [ 21:10 ]

Randy,
show me your references to Peru being the "absoulte worst educational system in all latin america".  I myself dont have many stats on Peruvian education, but your statement above is a bold one.  I seriously would like to do some reading on this, or are you just talking out your a** ?

# Viracocha says :
5 January, 2009 [ 05:12 ]

Hola todos.
Instead of contolling the skies, maybe they should be investigating how to stop Chile from stealing Peru's products indentities on the international market !! Do you know that some Chilean companies will bribe importers, in other countries, to say/advertise that "adopted Peruana products" are from Chile ??? Absolutely criminal marketing, eh ??? !!!
Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that the "war" is more marketing orientated than military muscle.

I am informed, by my esposa, that the last military "attack" on  Peru was by Ecuador in Fujimori's time...so ??

Any comments from those "in the know" ??

Anyway, US$650M is chicken feed for a population of over 28M...but is this money to placate the military "power beings" or a sincere need for protection?? I am not really in a position to speak/comment with any authority...so comments/advice will be appreciated.

Chau for now,
Viracocha.

# Romano says :
5 January, 2009 [ 06:28 ]

Talking about the devil!
http://www.elcomercio.com.pe/edicionimpresa/Html/2009-01-05/se-puede-mejorar-gasto-militar.html

# Paul says :
5 January, 2009 [ 14:20 ]

Yeah it would be nice to have all the shiny new fighter jets and tanks to parade on the 28th of July... but really are they nesecarry?  Do we think there will be a Chilean, Bolvian or Ecuadorian invasion?  Not likely. 

Could this money be better spent on developing infrastrucure, education, access to adequate health care and and consequently creating jobs? Thus creating more money via taxes and then buy the shiny toys later?

Me thinks so.

# c.schmidt says :
5 January, 2009 [ 15:34 ]

A successful year to Defense minister Dr. Antenor and my greates wish
for Peru that the country becomes on all cornes a place of calm and peace without any inner trouble.
I hope very fast we can see this inner peace as fast as much reinstalled also in all this many  rural areas which are qualified from analysts of interancional level as “No go areas or places to dangerous to visit” Last year Peru had seen quit a bit more terrorism and I hope this year we wont find it anymore.I respect in general Peruvian armed forces and  hope not to see this year  headlines like last year in Peruvian newspapers involving some figures of this well respected institution in possible irregularities which they had difficulties to declare about (referring to retired General mister Donayre and some others).Surely Defense minister anterior remembers our private short talk about other
certain issues in Peruvian spring and I do hope very much that this year we will see less bad headlines in newspapers and things are getting  cleared up on constant base. Happy new year also to Peruvian Armed forces and especially to the braveYoungsters  who have to stand in the frontline of difficult daily events and are fare away from their families.

# CapitanDan says :
5 January, 2009 [ 19:22 ]

I have never seen a Military Leader that was happy with his current weapons and budget allowances.....They remind me of some of my fishermen friends in the EEUU.... They couldn't wait to buy the newest ,flashiest and of course expensive lure to catch fish....Me I used the bait that was available, worms, flies, small fish.... At the end of the day I often had my limit and my friends ,HMmmm, well they had their lures....Yes, we need to combat these terrorists with the best weapons and INTELLIGENCE available....Lets be smarter, wiser and more efficient like the Isreali's... After the battles the Isreali's would drag the damaged Syrian , Egpytian tanks back to thier factories and rebuild these wrecks to first class weapons... We have the Migs and tanks lets use the Isreali method, new reactive armor and targeting systems, Lets send our young and brightest Engineers to Israel and the EEUU and EU to learn how to reuse , rebuild and modify what we have here in Peru.. Thus keeping and developing our own industry and educating our next generation of leaders into thinking "Outside of the Box"The rest of the monies spend on health, education and the feeding of the people...Innovative, intelligent and fed citizens are a match for any modern army... Chau My Friends

# randy cloward says :
5 January, 2009 [ 19:28 ]

Raphael, sorry in the delay in getting back to you.  i based my comment on a report i read some time ago, probably fall 2007.  i remember it was pretty stark.  did a quick search and couldn´t find it, but i will keep looking.  meanwhile im buried in launch of a new venture to give mypes free publicity on the web.  i´ll plug it here:  www.tedateoperu.com.

back to you

# Jose says :
5 January, 2009 [ 20:43 ]

In regards of Peru's education ranking...for Rapahel and randy, about being the worst in LA.....
Not quite the worst, but even Bolivia perfromed better in previous tests, The top of the class for LA is Cuba, followed by Chile.
But both far behind the Asian countries!!!
You can check the results of PISA 2003 (from the OECD website), we didnt participate in the PISA 2006 test (Chile and Uruguay at the top of the list in science and Maths for LA), I think the results of 2003 were so devastating that the goverment put a halt on testing our kids until some reform was done (or just  in year of elections 2006-2007 was not  good policy? You can also check the MINEDU site.
A tank without soldiers that can competently calculate the angle and direction of a misil objective, is pretty much like using a sword with eyes blindfolded, I my humble opinion...thus Education is a MUST.

# Jose says :
5 January, 2009 [ 21:16 ]

Found this about education rankings, check the link below to d'load doc (see pages 19-20-21), very sad, now I know we are not the last ones, but it is SAD consolation, being at the botom of the botom, lik ein soccer (maybe there is a correlation ;-) ) happy reading Mr Araoz:
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTLAC/Resources/Raising_Student_Learning_in_LAC_Document.pdf

# jcwong says :
6 January, 2009 [ 08:49 ]

no thanks   capitad dan
peru needs armed forces to fight narco terrorists, criminals, ambitious chileans and ecuadorians. Not to bomb civilian populations with outdated eeuu donated vietnam era cluster bombs. f16s and tanks are meant to be used against armies, soldiers and such.

PERU IS A CATHOLIC country, as I'm sure you've noticed (lots of churches all around),
there's absolutely nothing we need to copy from jews and others.

JCW

# AjideGallina says :
6 January, 2009 [ 10:48 ]

jcwong,

Why the anti-semitism?

# sromero says :
6 January, 2009 [ 10:49 ]

JCwong,

what's wrong with copying good ideas from anyone? even jews?
Captaindan didn't say "lets bomb civilians".  you are a silly and angry little man.

# CapitanDan says :
6 January, 2009 [ 11:49 ]

JC, maybe my words weren't clear enough...I have seen the Israeli weapons and how they(Israeli's) remanufacture them... I did not advocate the Israeli position with the Palestinians....I do not advocate their war strategy. All I am saying is to copy their use of weapons and ability to adapt technology ...Yes we need more Anti terrorists police and better armed and trained, but this can be done cheaply with the co operation of governments that support this position...JC, by the way I am Catholic and I respect the churches, temples and sacred places of all religions as if they were my own... As a gambler friend said, its not bad to hedge your bets. Now I hope , yes and pray my position is more clear... Chau Friends

# Jose says :
6 January, 2009 [ 15:28 ]

I agree with Captain Dan.
After all it was israeli technology that was used against our forces in 1995, cheap and good.
And also certain southern country already sends officers to Israel to study their strategy (tactics, weaponry, training,...)in the desert wars against the militants, in a terrain very similar to the Pacific coast of South America. In a similar way Lynch fought as an officer under british command in China before 1879.
I Also do not advocate the savagery commited by them BUT, they are the most formidable force per capita in the world, they now sell their technology to the americans.
Indeed send the brightest to best places to learn, and merge university and hich school education to build a capacity that underlies the weaponry capacity of our armed forces, because toys get out of fashion, and become obsolete, BUT knowledge only increases...

# jcwong says :
7 January, 2009 [ 04:46 ]

Aji and Sromero
I dont remember signing any papers requiring me to be pro jewish let alone pro israel.
I'm not an angy silly little man either, only an imbecile like you would find something to admire in the way jews (about 80%of the people that live in israel) treat other human beings (palestinians, muslim and christians). As you know, there's a catastrophe going on right now.

Jose, not that long ago the proganda behind the israeli armed forces (their superiority that is) came to an abrupt end thanks to the lebanese militias and their russian made antitank weapons. Imagine what those men would do to the israelis with proper and eqaul training and weapons.
the current massacre in gaza is being carried by a trained and equiped ARMY (70,000 or so) against unarmed civilians (1.5 million, 50% under 18) and lightly armed militia (about 5,000 or so).

Put things in perspective first and then comment.

It seems you didnt know that israel receives about 3 billion dollars a year courtesy of the eeuu taxpayers that goes mostly towards buying the best weapons produced by the eeuu arms industry. you might also want to know that israel has a MANDATORY military service, that means that at any given time a large percentage of its population of 5 million people are in active duty.

from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces
(read at your discretion, the site is updated by the israeli army)
Israel army flag and The Israel Defense Forces logo
Military age 18
Conscription 18
Available for
military service 1,499,186 males, age 17-49 (2000 est.),
1,462,063 females, age 17-49 (2000 est.)
Fit for
military service 1,226,903 males, age 17-49 (2000 est.),
1,192,319 females, age 17-49 (2000 est.)
Reaching military
age annually 50,348 males (2000 est.),
47,996 females (2000 est.)
Active personnel 176,500[1] (ranked 31st)

You're looking in the wrong place jose, we dont need to imitate the israeli army, and if chile wants to be trained by murderers and psycopaths, that's their problem.
I also suggest you read up a bit about the peruvian armed forces, under velasco they were built up rather well (all branches) and were far superior to the chilean a.f., unfortunately the economic collapse of the late 1980s and the civil war against sendero and the mrta caused a severe decline in its readiness. but this is being remedied now that the money is available. in about 5 or 10 years their status will be totally different.

JCW

# randy cloward says :
7 January, 2009 [ 08:21 ]

I´m with wong, let´s return Peru to the glory period  of the military juntas;  them were the days by golly.  I was here, I remember.

# mericorps says :
7 January, 2009 [ 08:40 ]

wong,

you are free to be a racist, but I, in turn, am free to find you disgusting and an assault on what Peru and humanity should stand for.

Peru is a country that is advancing and has a bright future, and soon there will be little room for cowards who blame whole races for their own failures.

Being pro-Isreal is a political decision, there are arguments for and against, but being anti-Jewish is a racial decision and hatred of a race is the act of a weak coward, garbage, nothing more.

# sromero says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:03 ]

Jcwong,

you are really confused!!! who said anyone is pro israel!!!!!
We only said that the approach they used to reused equipment and updated it is a good model to follow, specially if Peru doesnot have $$$$. 

We never said Peru should attach its enemies the way Israel does.

When did I or anyone said that we agree with what israel is doing in Gaza? the killings and bombing of schools? I think any reasonable being would detest that.  Please find that quote.  Jeez! the mere mention of the name Israel makes you explode!!

Read before you insult!!! little, little man with an even smaller brain!!!!

# Paul says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:03 ]

I dont think anybody is being racist on here, we are all entitled to opinion, and simply using the word Jew doesnt signify racism, especially when used in referring to Isreal. The two words have become understandibly synonymous especially considering Isreal was created to the Jewish State and a haven for all Jews. 

Given what is going on right now no doubt things get heated.  If it were an middle eastern country like Iran invading a small impoverished Christian country, I doubt many people would rebuke the use of the word Islamic or Musilm.

Anyone could go on an a pro or anti Israeli rant for hours here about illegal occupations and suicide bombers ect.. but its not the place.
  
My point is simple, who is going to invade Peru?  Not likely anyone in the next decade at least.

So why the need to spend such a high proportion of the budget on something that will get used for only for practice, require expensive maintenance and need replacing in 10 years anyway.
  
Gotta say tho, I dont quite agree that the isreal military model is anything to be emulated.  I think there are less controvertial places to source your weaponry.

A small but effective mililtary force, and some serious investment in a specialized and highly effective counter terrosim, counter drugs and counter corruption police service, would me a more targeted and effective use of these funds.

# Sromero says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:10 ]

I only agreed with the idea that Peru, like israel should look into upgrade and modernized equipment in order to get more for its money.

That does not make me pro israel. 

# randy cloward says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:19 ]

Add my ditto to Paul: "My point is simple, who is going to invade Peru?" 

Not likely that Chile is going to drop bombs on Ripley, Saga and Wong.  The battleground of the 21st century is economic.  Winning the economic battle requires investment in education, science, infrastructure, not military toys that impress nobody.  

# jcwong says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:25 ]

thanks paul

boy mericorps you're one sensitive jew! and i always though judaism was a religion not an ethnic group. anyway thanks for clarifiying.

sromero, i dont remember insulting anyone, and what exactly makes my brain so small? I thought I expressed myself rather clearly.

rcloward, only you know what you're talking about. I was talking about the condition of the armed forces at the time. The infamous velasco alvarado did screw up our country royally, but he did a good job with the russian stuff.

jcw

# sromero says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:28 ]

"My point is simple, who is going to invade Peru?" 

Having the ability to adequately defend yourself is never an obsolete idea.

with migs that dont fly, and tanks that dont run, Peru needs to upgrade its equipment to a decent level.  no need to become a mighty military force, but enough to keep up and not to lag too far behind.

# Sromero says :
7 January, 2009 [ 10:36 ]

jcwong,

this is your quote:
"sromero, i dont remember insulting anyone"

your previous quote:
"only an imbecile like you would find something to admire in the way jews"

but enough please, i mean it.  as long as you are clear that copying certain strategies from anyone does mean we "admire them".

Peru needs to find economic ways to adequately defend itself, and when possible, learn how others have done it.  Again that does not mean we are Pro anyone.

Peace out y ARRIBA PERU!!!! Salud!!!!

# randy cloward says :
7 January, 2009 [ 11:32 ]

As to the need to fight narco terrorism, who can disagree with that?  It is destroying whole regions of a beautiful country.

But my thoughts are the following:

Rather than seriously addressing root causes like a perverse welfare system, crumbling infrastructure, and education and healthcare inequalities in our inner cities and rural regions, the US invests  $69B directly and $100’s of Billions more indirectly on the War on Drugs.

AND IT´S LOSING the War!

So, rather than creatively considering alternate strategies, the US instead turns the blame on the poor producing countries and tells them they need to spend more money on weapons purchased from our military industrial complex.

If the US can’t spend enough to win the war, how is Peru going to win it? $650 Million or $650 Billion? It really doesn’t matter. 

Like the US, Peru will LOSE regardless, so long as there are millions of buyers willing to go to any extreme and pay any price for the product.   Remember, the narcos have a military budget as well.

 More and bigger weapons for the good guys -> higher prices and bigger profits for the bad guys -> more and bigger weapons for the bad guys  -> wider and more sophisticated levels of violence ->  more money for weapons for the good guys -> less money for schools and infrastructure ->  more addicts demanding product -> and so on…..

South Chicago, South Peru.  It’s the same cycle, same war and we continue to lose.

The guns vs butter debate has been waged since the dawn of time and certainly wont end in this forum.  Butter has my vote, but i recognize that i am and always will be in the minority.

  

# mericorps says :
7 January, 2009 [ 11:56 ]

Wong,

You are right, I am very intolerant of racism, classism, sexism religious bigotry and homophobia.

I consider such things to be the lower dregs of society, along with rapist and child molesters and perhaps I should follow the Catholic example (oh wait, that is you saying those that are not Catholics should not be admired) then my Christian example of turn the other cheek, but in this day and age anyone that holds on to values of hate, and tries to justify them in the name of their faith, be they Catholic, Christian, Muslim or Jewish is just not something I can stomache.

I have never been able to suffer fools very well, and that is an issue I will have to take up some day with God and Jesus.  But in the meanhile, as you bear false witness by trying to justify hate and bigotry in the name of your faith, I will continue to let you know that you have failed God, Peru and your family name.

# JCWong says :
7 January, 2009 [ 13:40 ]

take a break americorps and save the sermon for your followers, I dont care much for pompous and patronizing hipocrites either.

just keep jews and whatever you are out of my country. we've been catholic for several centuries and we'd like to keep it that way.
jcw

I use my real name because I dont have a problem with honesty,
what's your excuse?

# mericorps says :
7 January, 2009 [ 14:44 ]

JCWong says :

just keep jews and whatever you are out of my country.

******************************

That says it all right there, You are trash, nothing more.  A shame of Peru, a shame of Catholicism, a shame your ancestors and a shame of all humanity.

Human garbage, nothing more.

# Viracocha says :
7 January, 2009 [ 15:36 ]

Hola todos,...I opened my email this morning to see about 20 alerts to comments here.....having read them, I say ENOUGH everyone,please....this is not the place for a slanging match.

See you in the next worthy news item.
Chau,
Viracocha

# Jose says :
7 January, 2009 [ 16:35 ]

Hi I think the topic is gettign de-railed abit.
Mr Wong, thanks for your note on my remarks, I did put things into perspective before inserting my opinion, and yes your facts about the IDF are quite right, and I summarized with my opnion: they are the most formidable force per capita in the world. My point is get the know-how, not just in material but tactics, what works what doesnt, and for that we need to be EDUCATED.
And is it a no conventional war in stage here, It has been shown tanks are useless in a street by street fight, or against mobile rockets...
By all means just in regards of material US, Rusia or Israel are not the only ones, look at China, and South Korea, they are starting to export material, maybe a joint venture factory in Peru? with main customer the Peruvian force? Imagine the effects on jobs, know-how, education forthe country.
If not, we'll be always depending on foreign source, and if we get isolated (our seas are blocked, or international embargo or halt to prevent conflict escalation?) and we cannot buy spares, let alone new equipment, we are DONE!, we had a lucky escape in 1995, when we got the MIgs, luck itself doesnt exist, you create luck by being prepared!!.
I'm no advocating war, neither I'd like a neigbour to walk on us because we all suffer, BUT the real problem doesnt lie in our readiness to a direct attack on us, but to another more fragile neighbour, and AGAIN we get sucked into it for geopolitical reasons.
I believe we were the strongest with Velazco no doubt, but today, we cannot even clear ourselves of narcos, and SL, we need to fix that, before it escalates due to mismanagement, and that is our opportunity to boost education and be smart about boosting our armed forces.

I recommend to read nueva mayoria (argentine site) article --> http://www.nuevamayoria.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1130&Itemid=30

However said the real battle is the economy is right on the money.
For those thinking on war path...in any case we may prevail only if at least:
1. Our economy is the combined of both our northern and southern neigbours (HV-2).
 2. Our forces (men/amteriel) is also the combined (HV-2).
3. Our population is also the combined (HV-2).
4. Our education is above the highest of the (HV-2).
other than that, we are on the losing side, in my humble opinion..
If our forces are the combined

# CapitanDan says :
7 January, 2009 [ 19:36 ]

JC, My reply to this topic of Military spending has nothing to do with the Catastrophe in the Middle East.. I for one have been there and have seen the lunacy on both sides.. I for one want to make sure that Peru is never involved in a similar situation....You say Peru had a strong Military before its economic collapse... Well, so did the Soviets and the EEUU and EU countries... Massive military spending is wasted monies...And left unchecked leads to Economic Collapse.... Peru can have a strong military ,by looking at what is best suited and adapted to our needs... Use our monies on Education, infrastructure and manufacturing of our own weapons....This is reinvestment in Peru and is not wasted monies to arms dealers who are more than happy to supply the means to ruin...If the people of Peru are Happy , fed and have a chance to better their childrens lives, the terrorist will have fewer recruits to their ranks and less places to hide....Chau Friends

# jcwong says :
8 January, 2009 [ 03:05 ]

thanks for the link jose, excellent site.
just to put an end to this nonsense:
"Peru's Defense Ministry to strengthen Armed Forces - $650 million approved"
Great news! Little by little we'll recondition what we have and put it to good use if needed.

Peru should emulate israel!
Bad idea

jcw

# c. schmidt says :
8 January, 2009 [ 12:23 ]

I didn expect that it would go so internacional-and so deep. Anyhow there we are again. 
Our world is getting every day more bloody and it seems in upcomming years this certain sence of safety from the 90 th might be lost. hopefully not for ever.
A wise politician tries by all means to avoid military conflicts with his neighbours. Because a wise politician knows that he is at the end only a politician from one certain country and might be used from others to make fight sheeps against sheeps. 
He also knows that when ever military force is used outcome cant be forecasted, that there is alwayes a risk of being hurt. 
A wise politician knows- that no battle on ground can be won without succsess on  the batlle over hearts ( Kublai Khan- mongolian King).
Peru had wars with Equador and Chile. they are part from the past.
Peru has to face his biggest enemy in side of the country- such as corruption. To face corruption the country does not need his army but better education and definitly more control based on advanced intelligence and most of all good will.
By saying - what serves all the intelligence in world if it not used to make things better - to make them - like they ment to be in the eye of our beholder (this is the only and very last time time I mix politics with religion) 
Anyhow the terrorist events in Peru from last year definitly should be taken very serious- just going by facts- Last time everything was just fine untill the things came into Lima and many people had to die. For avoiding this I am rather in favour to by smart teqniques than some old weappons from some  weappon dealer who usually die in peace in bed.

# CapitanDan says :
8 January, 2009 [ 15:09 ]

JC, It looks like Peru is going to buy anti-tank missles from Israel.. It also is apparent Peru's military specialists were in Israel to test and observe these results..Again I do not advocate this purchase or other purchases of weapons that Peru will never use... Israel has a population less than a 1/4 of Peru and has its own manufacturing plants.... This is what I am advocating..... Lets educate and build our own equipment here ... This idea may seem far fetched now, but you have to start somewhere. As for anti tank missles, people with intelligence and devotion to there country have used a cheaper method(molotove cocktails) stired not shaken. HMmm, Do I smell Loxs and Bagels..Chau Friends

# jcwong says :
9 January, 2009 [ 05:31 ]

LOL!!, give it up cap dan, the ruble's depreciation makes buying russian arms very attractive, and their kornets do a great job against those fancy and expensive merkavas and abrams.
Remember, Peru's army is for defensive purposes, we're not planning on invading anyone anytime soon. although those copper mines in our old tarapaca province look yummy...look at all those toys the chilean army can buy!

Anyway, Why on earth would anyone waste time, effort and money building arms factories when you can build factories to build machinery, naval ships, cars, etc the type of thing that industrialized and developed nations build and sell.

Personally I'll take vodka and russian girls over any bagel!
 let's see what those russians can do with their prices, I hear putin is a pretty persuasive guy and our ministers of war are not exactly honest johns. hey, can you imagine a pisco molotov? the tank crews would love them!

chau to you

jcw

# jcwong says :
9 January, 2009 [ 05:36 ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4794829.stm

cap dan, you might find this interesting although im sure you have better sources than me.
jc

# mericorps says :
9 January, 2009 [ 09:06 ]

Dan,

I have always found you to be a smart and reasonable and wise man.

I do not understand engaging in a dialoge with a know admitted racist, it gives him some level of legitimacy.

I am not talking about the Israeli/Palestinian stance, that is political, I am talking about his very clearly stated and unequivical anti-Jewish stance.

Anti-semitism is the tool for hatred that created the Holocaust and so many other atrocities in the world.  People like the NAZI's the Klan, Black Supremicists, and any other group that targets any race, creed, color, or sexual orientation as inferior, lesser is an assault on humanity, is the lowest form of life on earth and deserves to be shunned, knocked down and confronted with intense opposition at every turn.

Someone like JCWong is someone that lives a life of hate and ignorance, and tries to infect his cancer on others.  He makes it worse by cloaking himself in his Church.  Pope John Paul II worked so hard on building love and relations between the Catholic Church and other faiths, so JC is actually flying in the face of his church, spreading hate in the name of God.

Someone like him has no credibility, no reason, no honor, so to engage him like he is just another guy on the street only encourages him and gives him the illusian that he has something legitimate to offer society, and he does not until he renounces his hate, especially a hate he tries to justify in the name of his church.

Dan, please.

# jcwong says :
9 January, 2009 [ 09:47 ]

I only hate ignorance and preachers, here's some facts about the people you love so much:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/world/middleeast/09vatican.html?ref=middleeast
Israel Condemns Vatican’s ‘Concentration Camp’ Remarks 
 
By RACHEL DONADIO
Published: January 8, 2009

ROME — Tensions rose between the Vatican and Israel on Thursday after Israel condemned a high-ranking Vatican official for comparing the Gaza Strip to “a concentration camp.”
Related
Gaza Attacks Continue Despite U.N. Truce Call (January 10, 2009)

"Look at the conditions in Gaza: more and more, it resembles a big concentration camp,” Cardinal Renato Martino, the president of the Council for Justice and Peace, said in an interview published Wednesday in an online publication.

He defended his comments in the center-left daily newspaper La Repubblica on Thursday. While noting that Hamas rockets into Israel were “certainly not sugared almonds,” he called the situation in Gaza “horrific” and said conditions there went “against human dignity.”......

Please follow the link to read the rest.

Read on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/opinion/08khalidi.html?_r=1&em
By RASHID KHALIDI
Published: January 7, 2009

NEARLY everything you’ve been led to believe about Gaza is wrong. Below are a few essential points that seem to be missing from the conversation, much of which has taken place in the press, about Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip.

Ronald J. Cala II

THE GAZANS Most of the people living in Gaza are not there by choice. The majority of the 1.5 million people crammed into the roughly 140 square miles of the Gaza Strip belong to families that came from towns and villages outside Gaza like Ashkelon and Beersheba. They were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948.

THE OCCUPATION The Gazans have lived under Israeli occupation since the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel is still widely considered to be an occupying power, even though it removed its troops and settlers from the strip in 2005. Israel still controls access to the area, imports and exports, and the movement of people in and out. Israel has control over Gaza’s air space and sea coast, and its forces enter the area at will. As the occupying power, Israel has the responsibility under the Fourth Geneva Convention to see to the welfare of the civilian population of the Gaza Strip.

THE BLOCKADE Israel’s blockade of the strip, with the support of the United States and the European Union, has grown increasingly stringent since Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative Council elections in January 2006. Fuel, electricity, imports, exports and the movement of people in and out of the Strip have been slowly choked off, leading to life-threatening problems of sanitation, health, water supply and transportation.

The blockade has subjected many to unemployment, penury and malnutrition. This amounts to the collective punishment — with the tacit support of the United States — of a civilian population for exercising its democratic rights.

THE CEASE-FIRE Lifting the blockade, along with a cessation of rocket fire, was one of the key terms of the June cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. This accord led to a reduction in rockets fired from Gaza from hundreds in May and June to a total of less than 20 in the subsequent four months (according to Israeli government figures). The cease-fire broke down when Israeli forces launched major air and ground attacks in early November; six Hamas operatives were reported killed.

WAR CRIMES The targeting of civilians, whether by Hamas or by Israel, is potentially a war crime. Every human life is precious. But the numbers speak for themselves: Nearly 700 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed since the conflict broke out at the end of last year. In contrast, there have been around a dozen Israelis killed, many of them soldiers. Negotiation is a much more effective way to deal with rockets and other forms of violence. This might have been able to happen had Israel fulfilled the terms of the June cease-fire and lifted its blockade of the Gaza Strip.

This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.”

Rashid Khalidi, a professor of Arab studies at Columbia, is the author of the forthcoming “Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Dominance in the Middle East."
More Articles in Opinion »
A version of this article appeared in print on January 8, 2009, on page A31 of the New York edition.

# mericorps says :
9 January, 2009 [ 10:29 ]

Yes, jc, I realize you stand with people who strap bombs to children and the mentally ill, and do so in the name of God.

and I realize you are to stupid to understand the difference between the politics of Israel/Palestine and the notion to judge an entire race, ethnicity, or whatever as inferior to yourself.

And I very carefully use the word stupid, because it is a very special kind of ignorance that embraces racsim, sexism, religious bigotry and homophobia, a special depth of depravity that is very pathetic.

It is called bigotry and you are a failure because of it, you have nothing legitimate to offer us until you pull yourself out of the depths of sludge and re-join humanity.

# Paul says :
9 January, 2009 [ 16:28 ]

For this debate I think it makes sense to seperate Isreali political and miliatry action from simply blaming Jews.  The difference is marked as described above. 

Isreal treats the palestinian world with contempt and is undertaking a campaign of warcrimes backed by the USA. They are getting as much done as possible now, because they know once Bush goes and Obama enters they wont have a carte blanche anymore.

Nobody straps a bomb to their back and blows themselves up for fun.  It is an action of last resort and desperation.  It is wrong.  But fix the root of the problem and it will go away.

I for one would be keen to see more countries take action like Venezuela and expel the Israeli ambassadors. 

Dont blame all jews, blame the israeli state and its supporters.  There are many Jews who despise the actions of their own country and very often publically protest these actions.

# Observer says :
9 January, 2009 [ 17:37 ]

Is Mericorps gay ? Sounds like it.

# G.J. says :
9 January, 2009 [ 20:23 ]

Ok muy bien y que continue el debate civilizadamente, y no se jalen los cabellos por favor! y QUE VIVA EL PERU CARAJO, y le deseo a chile y a otros paises de nuestra America mucha prosperidad, para que de esa forma toda America salga adelante unidad y que ningun pais se quede atras.

Por favor hay que concentrarce en destruir la pobreza, incrementar aun mas la educacion de nuestros paises, erradicar enfermedades, hacer obras masivas de infraestructura para que asi toda America se beneficie de ellas y no solamente un pais, no se olviden de hacer siempre obras de caridad, para que los que esten en desventaja se beneficien.

Ese dime que te dire entre Uds no conduce a ningun lugar! Amigos por favor concentren sus energias en algo mas productivo.
Abramos todas las fronteras de nuestros paises y de esa manera tener una moneda, donde se hable 2 o 3 idiomas, por supuesto que va haber algunos paises no al mismo alcanze que otros pero con la ayuda de todos los otros paises ellos tambiem lo estaran. va ha haber muchos opositores a estas frases, pero instead de oponerse porque no contribuyes a que esto sea una realidad by portando ideas al respecto, y sobre todo haciendo cosas con diferente tipo de personas para que esto se haga realidad a corto plazo. 

Recuerden que va ha haber algunos paises que se opondran, porque? porque no les convendria una VERDADERA UNION AMERICANA.

Y de esta forma esperadamente our nietos, biznietos, tataranietos, etc se sentiran orgullozos de heredar de todos nosotros
UNA AMERICA UNIDA en su totalidad.

Salud,
G.R.J.L.

# Class Monitor says :
9 January, 2009 [ 22:31 ]

G.J. English solo please...read bottom advice.
Thanks,
C.M

# G..J. says :
12 January, 2009 [ 17:33 ]

Oh I am sorry my friend, I thought everybody here in these forum is bi-language or they spoke several languages, pardon moi mon mistake,

And to those that might understand Castellano/Espanol please feel free to read it.

Auf Wiedersehen
Thanks a lot!
G.R.J.L. 

# Everyting in MODeration says :
12 January, 2009 [ 19:29 ]

• These comments are the property of their respective authors.
• Currently we only allow english comments.
• Por ahora solo se permiten comentarios en ingles.

If you think you are above the rules, you show your arrogance, nothing more.

# G.J says :
12 January, 2009 [ 19:58 ]

Aparentemente Ud tiene problemas mi amigo! la arrogancia la empesaron Uds al decir English solo!!!!!!!!!!!

Y por otra parte si Uds van ha hablar y/o comentar ha acerca d Peru, por favor tengan la dignidad de ser mas honestos y receptores hacerca el lenguaje y la cultura de Peru y no me venga a salir con impertinencias.

Tambien les agradeceria que no sean descarados e impertinentes, y sobre todo marginales rudos y descriminativos, y si van a continuar descriminando de esta forma a gente de otras lenguas el problema lo tienen Uds, y esta pagina web con sus forums debe de ser suprimidad y cancelada al publico en general.

Muchas gracias y hasta luego.

G.R.J.L.

# G.J. says :
12 January, 2009 [ 20:25 ]

Peru is a magical spot which involves one of the richest biodiversities of Earth, and is a melting pot of different cultures and people.
Peru, the most fascinating destination in South America welcomes all races and languages.

Bienvenidos a Peru Amigos
G.J.R.L.

Name

Email

Notify me via e-mail of new comments to this entry

Code :

Comment

• These comments are the property of their respective authors.
• Currently we only allow english comments.
• Por ahora solo se permiten comentarios en ingles.