Authorities in Puno, Peru to Begin Meteorite Extraction Project

(LIP-ir) -- According to Andina, Peru's government news agency, Peru's Geological, Mining and Metallurgical Institute (INGEMMET) reported today that Russian meteorite traffickers were persuading authorities and citizens in Puno, Peru to extract the fallen meteorite for economic gain.

The Regional Geology Director for INGEMMET, Hernando Núñez del Prado stated, "I've been told that foreigners, with Russian nationalities, have been manipulating the people, telling them that if they don't extract the probable fragments that are in the deep (crater), they will turn to ash and disappear."

In addition, Núñez del Prado revealed that municipal authorities from Desaguadero and Chucuito would begin digging for the meteorite using heavy machinery. In the specialist's opinion this would cause an uproar among the townspeople.

"If municipal authorities come in with backhoes and find fragments in the deep (crater), people will throw themselves on (the fragments) because they know the value of the meteorite, there could be accidents, even a slaughter," warned Peru's Regional Geology Director.

Núñez del Prado told Andina News Agency that the excavation project could destroy the meteorite fragments due to the fact that the Municipalities had not done a technical survey or study of the area. He added that the Geological Institute had much more precise methods for extracting the meteorite fragments.

"They are looking to recover remains of the meteorite to sell them and make money. They will probably say they are going to preserve them and put them in a museum," affirmed Núñez del Prado.

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# Michael Farmer says :
19 October, 2007 [ 23:29 ]

This is pitiful, scientists in Peru are absolutely clueless. Peru will now be the laughing stock of the scientific world, letting their "national treasure" disentegrate in muddy water.
This meteorite should have been dug up a month ago. I think that corrupt government officials are trying to figure out a way to make money on it, that is why they do not want the locals to excavate it.
What a loss to the whole world, the largest chondrite meteorite known is being destroyed before our very eyes, and these excuses of "trafickers" are just smokescreens.

At least dealers like us would protect it, save it, and distribute it. Peru is letting it rot to nothing in a waterhole in front of our eyes.

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 01:18 ]

Mike Farmer is a imbecil. He still doesn't realize that this meteorite is buried tens of meters in the cold mud. His primitive mind can't understand that this meteorite was travelling 10x faster than a M16 bullet when it punched through the 2 meters of soft soil and then into mud. He thinks the meteorite is sitting at the bottom of the crater. This is a man with no formal education *high school only* attempting to explain ballistic penetration of a meteorite. No equations, formulas, or mathematical models. Just his own stupid theory. He also says the meteorite will "rot" without giving an explanation. What this man of little intelligenced and little education fails to realize is that the mud is freezing cold and very little oxidation would occur. This month's National Geographic has an article about mummy's found in mud that are almost perfectly preserved. A message to Mr. Farmer, please don't pretend to be  a scientist. Your real occupation is a meteorite dealer. Nothing more. Let the real scientists make the determination and don't try to fool the public into thinking you want to save it. You just want to make money off it.

# xc says :
20 October, 2007 [ 09:13 ]

How does rock disintegrate and rot in mud??

# Bryan K. says :
20 October, 2007 [ 10:37 ]

Randall,

Mummies don't contain iron that rusts in water. Meteorites recovered in Antarctica show evidence of terrestrial weathering despite the constant subzero temps. Regardless of your personal feelings towards Mr. Farmer, he has actually had a very substantial amount of practical experience in recovering meteorites and seeing how quickly fresh Falls get oxidized when exposed to the elements.

I've paid attention to your ongoing campaign in regards to this meteorite and its recovery... and honestly, you try and build yourself up as a friend of the people and so forth, but this really seems like a smokescreen to hide your selfish motives.

At least Mike Farmer is honest about what he's doing - he's a meteorite dealer - he makes money off of meteorites. His enthusiasm for what he does leads to quick recovery of new Falls. This benefits the scientific community because it is very important that they have meteoritic material that is the LEAST terrestrially altered. NOT material soaking in water and oxidizing, as the Peru meteorite has been doing.

Farmer's job is to make money off meteorites, the Peruvian government's is to protect the best interests of their people. Who is not doing their job and looking bad here?

Shame on you, Mr. Gregory. You are dishonest. Why don't you give a full disclosure about your involvement here? And I must say, $50 for shipping of a 1 gram piece of this meteorite (on your ebay auction right now) is a bit exorbitant, don't you think?

# Michael Farmer says :
20 October, 2007 [ 11:20 ]

Randall Gregory is as nutty as a fruitcake.
He is selling Carancas on ebay, for $50.00 shipping for one gram! He is trying to pawn ugly crappy photos on ebay via email, I am shocked that he is not selling bags of animal crap contaminated with Carancas dust.


I have recovered more than 5000 meteorites, found more than 1500 different meteorites myself, brought out of the desert 5 different lunar meteorites, including one I found myself, and four different Martian meteorites.
Randall, how many meteorites have you found? ZERO? So please, tell these people just what you know about me? Tell them how you get off coming on here and trashing, and tell them why you are doing it, because I have exposed you for the psycho you are, using ten different names, pretending to be Doctors, Lawyers, etc, and having the sack to come on here and talk education.



The only reason you are mad is that I messed up your plans to get rich on this meteorite fall. So get to the damned point already.
Now that is hilarious.

# Michael Farmer says :
20 October, 2007 [ 12:48 ]

Here is an email below where Randall Admits to buying large peices from the police. Date:	Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT)
From:	"Randall Gregory" <randall_gregory@yahoo.com>  Add to Address Book  Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject:	Moral responsibility and meteorite sales
To:	"Michael L Blood" <mlblood@cox.net>, "Gaetan Cormier" <shattercone@gmail.com>, "meteorite dealer1" <fernlea4@aol.com>, "Robert Haag" <rhaag6@comcast.net>, "meteorite List" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>, "Michael Farmer" <meteoriteguy@yahoo.com>, "Randy Korotev" <rlk@levee.wustl.edu>, "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <info@mcomemeteorite.it>

Gentlemen, (Please post to the list for me)

I have in total 4,740 gms. of the Carancas meteorite with an option for another 500 gm. of material. Of this, a total of 259.6 gms. will be sold. Fusion crusted material comprise a total of 128.8 gm. I consider this to be legally mine, since I bought it from the land-owner and his family. The stones purchased from the family were also blessed by a Catholic priest in the town of Desagaudero. The rest I bought from thieves. Theft is wrong in the eyes of the government and God.

The bulk of what I have, I consider it to be stolen and I will not sell any until I talk to the land owner and work out an agreement. Just before I left Desaguadero,  I paid $2,000 for the 4 kilo piece from local authorities that was collected (stolen) shortly after the meteorite fell. Any Carancas meteorite over 50gms. that hits the market was obtained illegally. I want to petition the court in Desaguadero to declare anything outside of what was purchased directly from the family to be illegal.  Australia and Brazil have National Treasure laws, Peru has laws regarding archeological artifacts, and the United States has private property laws. I will ask that the material currently in scientific institutions be exempted and will ask the land owner and the church in Desaguadero to allow them to keep what they have in the interest of science. Imagine that a meteorite fell onto your property and your local police, newspaper reporters and neighbors came in an took pieces of this meteorite until there was nothing left for you. What would your reaction be?

What is Ebay's policy regarding the sales of stolen material? Some people will try to sell this stolen material on Ebay. My question to you, gentlemen, is what moral responsibilites do meteorite dealers have and what percentage of meteorites in the market do you believe to be stolen? 

Randall

# LOL POOP says :
20 October, 2007 [ 13:33 ]

LOL I LIEK DIS ARTICAAL LOL
DO ANY OF U GUYZ PLAY XBOX 360 I JUST GOT HALO 3 IT IS SO AWESOME DUDE SRSLY.
IF U DO LIEK PLZ POST UR NAME AND STUFF LOL
BTW, RANDALL I HATEZ U LOL GO AWAI

# Michael says :
20 October, 2007 [ 18:20 ]

Mike Farmer;

Is there a link or reference you can give us to explain what you mean by the meteorite "rotting?"  I read that more than once in your posts, and I am curious what that means.

Thanks!

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 18:59 ]

Well, first I am happy that this little war has moved from the www.meteoritecentral.com list to this venue.

First I will address Mr. Farmer then I'll get back to Bryan.

Mike, you are incredible. You forget what you say. YOU were the first to use the term "rotting". I just picked up on it. I really prefer the term oxidation and out-gassing myself. Since you like to post private e-mails, I figure I can do the same.  Are you ready?

And in your post to this list, you mentioned you collected 5,000 meteorites and 1,500 "different" meteorites. That makes your collection bigger than the Antarctic meteorite recovery expeditions. They sent out teams from different countries equipped with remote meteorite rovers. And to think, you surpassed their efforts single-handle. You need to be commended. You beat NASA. Congrats.

http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/us_clctn.cfm

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 19:12 ]

Gentlemen,
 
Thank you , thank you, thank god. You posted to the list.......... A PRIVATE e-mail that I sent to you. Now I want you guys to disect this, analysis it, copy it, post it, send it.
 
Analysis my private e-mail that I sent to Mike.
 
Ask these questions:
 
Did Randall ever say he bought from the police?
 
Randall did tell Mike that he had a whopper stone. YES THAT WAS THE ONLY LIE.
 
I admit that lie!
 
It was Mike that assumed, in his own mind, that I bought the fictious whopper from the police.
 
He then took my e-mail public, accusing me of buying from the police.
 
Now are you starting to see the picture a little clearer?
Mike also verified that this e-mail that I sent him is absolutely authentic, 100% Randall.
 
Gotta go, slides to scan, and my "fu....." brand new Epson scanner is not working yet.
 
 
Randall

Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Below is the lie you emailed to me, so do not act like
I typed it for you. Cant you see the bullshit your
fucking actions are causing? This was sent to the
national news in Peru, you LIED, and you have photos
with the major. YOU got him, into this, not contact
ANDINA and get him out of it. I would not be able to
sleep if I know a man was in jail for my lies.
Mike

Mike, Please produce the photos of me with the Major of the Police in Desaguadero. PLease.

Tomorrow, I will post ALL the lies Mr. Farmer has made which now numbers close to 50. We will start with his very first lie to the police of Desaguadero, telling them that he was an American scientist from the University of Colorado.

Randall

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 19:38 ]

Hi Mike,

Welcome to Peru! I knew you couldn't resist. I also
had a report that some Americans were visiting the
crater and I figured you were probably there. I know
that you're in Puno waiting for the trip to Juliaca.
No secret there. How's the altitude sickness? I hope
you didn't drink any water in Desag. Oh, by the way,
Desaguadero means "place of dirty water" in Spanish.
You did get vaccinations for Yellow Fever, Hepatitis,
and Typhoid? I sure hope so. Every good meteorite
hunter should.

Consider yourself lucky that you were not arrested and
thrown in jail by my friends in Desaguadero. I think
you'll recognize a few of your new friends. Major
Victor Anaya Barrientos, police chief and my personal
drinking buddy Sargent Enrique.

You threatened to f..k me up, Mike. Remember?

I could have had you arrested and held in jail on
various charges. But I'm not vengeful guy, more of a
peace-loving kind.

I offered to end this war and you failed to respond to
me. I gave you the chance for us to work together on
this, yet you chose to go it alone.You took my
invitation as a threat. A gun in your face in
Columbia. Get the picture? Leave South America to me,
but work with me if you want. There a 4 more falls in
Peru that haven't been tapped and others in Bolivia
and Ecuador.

I'm enclosing some pictures to remind you of your
trip. You went with 2 other guys, yet I went there
alone. Just another day in the life of a meteorite
hunter, huh? Toughen up Mike! BTW, I've got a little
over 4,700 gms, not including the dust and small
pieces. But I'm only selling around 300 gms. The large
piece will be donated to a museum or other scientific
institution.

I appreciate the fact that you enlightened me about
meteorites 'rotting'. I'm going back to Desag very
soon to work with the local officials. I'm taking
mining engineers to create a plan for extraction. If
you want to be a part of it, I invite you to
participate. As a meteorite dealer, you can also
appreciate the value of what might come out of the
ground. You have a real appreciation for this
meteorite now and you could contribute to this
project, but please don't criticize these people. The
have there jobs and probably do them well. They are
venturing into unknown territory with little
information or experience.

Randall

--- Randall Gregory wrote:

> You were the one that told the list. But Mike the
> truth is already known...
> The real story is that I didn't buy anything from
> the police. And that is the truth.
>
> Randall
>
>

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 20:00 ]

Bryan,

You said: Mummies don't contain iron that rusts in water.

Blood contains iron-rich hemoglobin which will oxidize.
 
You said:Meteorites recovered in Antarctica show evidence of terrestrial weathering despite the constant subzero temps.

Yes, but they have been in this environment for hundreds, if not thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years.

You said:Regardless of your personal feelings towards Mr. Farmer, he has actually had a very substantial amount of practical experience in recovering meteorites and seeing how quickly fresh Falls get oxidized when exposed to the elements.

I would agree.

You said: I've paid attention to your ongoing campaign in regards to this meteorite and its recovery... and honestly, you try and build yourself up as a friend of the people and so forth, but this really seems like a smokescreen to hide your selfish motives.

I have not made a dime from these meteorites. My wife is Peruvian, my family is Peruvian, my friends are Peruvian. And, my heart is in Peru. Money is not my motivation, never has, never will. I am rich already. Rich in friends, rich in love, and rich in the knowledge that I have a clear conscience. I have more than enough money already. My last income tax statement shows gross income of $85,000 per year. The year I quit the corporate life,

You said: At least Mike Farmer is honest about what he's doing - he's a meteorite dealer - he makes money off of meteorites. His enthusiasm for what he does leads to quick recovery of new Falls. This benefits the scientific community because it is very important that they have meteoritic material that is the LEAST terrestrially altered.
 
Mr. Farmer is totally dishonest with respect to his dealings. He sells to the scientific community. Occasionally donating when it serves his purpose.

You said: NOT material soaking in water and oxidizing, as the Peru meteorite has been doing.

Can you prove this meteorite is oxidizing?. Buried 50 feet in freezing mud.


You said: Farmer's job is to make money off meteorites,
 
I agree.

You said: the Peruvian government's is to protect the best interests of their people. Who is not doing their job and looking bad here?

We are working on the problem. How do you safely extract a 5 -10 ton meteorite buried 50 - 90 feet in mud. Maybe you can give us the solution, since mining engineers say it would be extremely dangerous.

You said :Shame on you, Mr. Gregory. You are dishonest.
Why don't you give a full disclosure about your involvement here?

I am not dishonest. I have always given full disclosure. I already admitted that I lied to Mike Farmer. But everything else was the truth.

You said: And I must say, $50 for shipping of a 1 gram piece of this meteorite (on your ebay auction right now) is a bit exorbitant, don't you think

Absolutely. I never intended to sell it. I used the ebay ad to diseminate information.  The $50 shipping was to prevent anybody from bidding on it. Check ebay - 3 days running - no bids. If I get a bid, I'll pull the ad. I might sell some stones later, but far into the future.  The ad has been running for a few days now. 329 people have visited and it's still listed for $.99 cents.

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 20:13 ]

My eBay auction: Item number : 300161908737

Item number: 18016809413 - My friend the Bolivian dealer is using a technique similar to mine to diseminate information. I think his is more clever. ;)


I also donated enough plastisized polymer (heavier than land-fill liner) to completly cover an area of 100 sq. meters of terra. And gromets, nylon cord, hammers, stakes, contact cement, brushes, etc.. Totally paid for and donated: I expect nothing in return. I wanted to protect the crater for science and I hope I accomplished this. I am also going back to Desaguadero to petition the court to make the community of Carancas off-limits to meteorite dealers such as Mr. Haag and others. I am also hiring guards to protect the strewnfields along the trajectory path both in Peru and Bolivia. My work has just begun...

Randall

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 20:15 ]

I'm finished posting, I've got a ton of work to do...

Randall

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 20:58 ]

This was just a little skirmish. The big battle will be held in the Tuscon District court where I will sue Mr. Farmer. Everyone is invited!

www.tucsonaz.gov/court

There will also be other legal proceedings in the Peruvian courts.

Randall

# americorps says :
20 October, 2007 [ 21:33 ]

I think you both are goofballs, but Randall, you just admitted in writing violating eBays TOS (I was an avid eBay seller for nearly 6 years before I moved to Peru and a former teacher at eBay U).

I have forwarded a copy of your post along with a copy of the listing to Ebay for review.

# Michael Farmer says :
20 October, 2007 [ 21:46 ]

Randall, just what do you really think you can sue me for? Calling you a nutjob, a moron, a piece of crap? Your own emails to me are my best friends, they will prove me right. So bring it on.

PS, anyone see that jim Carrey movie called  "Cable Guy"? Randall it is, the needy freak who when you speak one word to him, latches on like a leech for dear life.

My god, what a freak of nature.

# Randall Gregory says :
20 October, 2007 [ 21:47 ]

http://www.correoperu.com.pe/correosur/puno/nota.php?id=20085
http://www.correoperu.com.pe/correosur/puno/nota.php?id=20237

To translate from Spanish to English, use Google Language tool. Go to the Google main screen www.google.com then to the right of the search bar is the language tool selection. Translate from Spanish to English. Really easy!

# Juan Blake says :
20 October, 2007 [ 23:22 ]

Everybody was having a wonderful time watching these guys fight it out. Then along comes americorps who opens his big f-----g pie hole to spoil it for everyone. SFB.

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 03:32 ]

I just finished a on-line chat with eBay customer support and they were most helpful. I am also mailing an email to Technical Issues Department.
Thank you Americacorps for enlightening me. ebay item has been pulled.

Randall

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 03:58 ]

Mr. Farmer,

I am suing you for public slander. The evidence has been recorded and saved. Additionally, all the www.meteoritecentral.com archives have been copied along with your entire website. I have made multiple copies and backed them up to a secure drive on another computer which I backed up. I also copied them to a portable flash drive.

Let's start with you calling my loving wife a "cheap whore". Then attempting to tarnish my reputation with the scientific community that I have spent years building.

Some of your e-mails are so disgusting, that I don't wish to publish them here, but I will bundled them and send to whomever requests them. I will for now, start listing them for the world to see. They can then make their own judgement as to what type of person you are. They can also make their own judgement as to what type of person I am.

Let's play ball!

Michael Farmer

to me

show details

Oct 16 (5 days ago)

These emails for a fucking fruitcake make great reading, and a hell of a stack of papertrail for when I decide to go further. Oh, I informed the Peruvian news ANDINA of your name, phone number, and ebay Auction. I am sure Peru will love to see gringo in their own country selling their national treasures. What a fucking moron, I am shocked a nut like you could find a woman to spread her legs, must have been a cheap whore. How is that asshole? Is the mother of your children a whore? I can hit back. How much was  she, I have some money I made from Carancas and need to spend it.

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:02 ]

Mike,

Come on now. No more name calling referring to me as "Filthy Gringo". You don't know me at all. The crater is guarded by my "friends". And as far as speaking Spanish, you got that a little backward. I HARDLY SPEAK ANY ENGLISH anymore. Comprendamundo. 

Mr. Smith is fighting Neo, Again!!

Randall ;)

On 10/10/07, Michael Farmer < meteoriteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

Whatever, according to local news, the crater is
guarded 24 7. so how is a filthy gringo going to do
that, especially one who can barely speak spanish?
--- Randall Gregory <r.randall.gregory@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It's going to cost me $8,000 to do that
>
>
>
> On 10/10/07, Randall Gregory
> <r.randall.gregory@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am going out on saturday, to cover the crater
> and dig trenches to divert
> > the water.

- Hide quoted text -

> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/10/07, Michael Farmer
> < meteoriteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nope, just Peruvian ones, who leave a rare
> meteorite
> > > sitting in piss water. Can you argue for that?
> > > I am listening.
> > > --- Randall Gregory
> <r.randall.gregory@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not to mention the scientist in Peru who you
> called
> > > > stupid. do you believe
> > > > all scientists are stupid?

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:13 ]

Mr. Farmer and I did engage in name calling at some points.


I called Mr. Farmer a sissy, stupid, fat, out of touch with reality, greedy, without morals. I never resorted to profanity. I don't believe in it.

The ONLY referenced I made to Mr. Farmer's wife was a question. I asked Mike if his wife had traded up yet. I believe most women would.

Mr. Farmer, please supply this list with ANY statements where I used profanity. And don't even think about trying to manufacture anything. I can get authenticated copies from any e-mail server with a court order.
BTW, I was THE e-mail Administrator for a 7 hospital, medical teaching facility, and university complex. The Wayne State University / Detroit Medical Center before I left corporate life.

Randall 

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:31 ]

But you can't try to ruin that reputation, because it's cast in stone back in the United States. I left corporate life 5 years ago, to be with my Peruvian wife.

Here's another classic Mike Farmer. The topic was:

Anaya quoted in newspaper "will be filing charges against MF" and Randall will follow

On 10/16/07, Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy@yahoo.com > wrote:

It means you are a sad sack of shit, who fucks whores
in Peru (likely aids infected) and has no life. I will
email these to your kid, to show him what a piece of
shit his dad really is.
Pitiful that a guy would end up like that, but nothing
new, the world is full of nutjobs.

I have no interest in other women, sissy boy. My wife is a stone fox, highly intelligent and we love each other.

You know when you told me you were in Lima having dinner. I went out looking for your fat ass. Good thing I didn't find you cuz I was going to mop the street with you. You better pray our paths never cross, Sargent Chubbs.

GO ahead mail my kids. I dare you PIG.

Enough for tonight. I need to get my two hours of sleep. I have a ton of work to do...

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:39 ]

 

Dear Dr. Jxxxxxxxxx,

I have discovered that a Meteorite dealer in the United States by the name of Michael Farmer apparently is using your beautiful chart of the Lake Titicaca (Carancas,Peru) meteorite fall without your express permission. I believe he has used this chart for commercial explotation. He is making a claim on his website that it is his and may not be copied or reproduced. My question to you, doctor, is did you give Mr. Farmer permission to post your chart to the public and strip the copyright statement from the chart. Please respond quickly. This is an urgent matter. I await your reply. 

Thanking you in advance.

From: Jackson, Lionel < lijackso@nrcan.gc.ca>
Date: Oct 9, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Suspected theft of copyright material - Carancas meteorite flight trajectory chart
To: Randall Gregory < r.randall.gregory@gmail.com>

Randall,

I have Emailed Mr. Farmer. Thinking about it, he also used written information posted on the internet by INGEMMET in Lima without acknowledgment also. Please forward my Email to him (cc'd separately to you) to all your correspondents.

Cheers,

Lionel Jackson

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:44 ]

From: Gary Goldstein <gary.goldstein.attorney@gmail.com >
Date: Oct 18, 2007 3:09 AM
Subject: Mayor Anaya, Police Chief of Desaguadero to file lawsuit against Mike Farmer
To: Met-Cen List <Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >, Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy@yahoo.com>
Cc: adam.scott.gregory@gmail.com, " xxxxxxxxxx@aol.com" <xxxxxxxxxx@aol.com>, r.randall.gregory@gmail.com

Translated text from the newspaper Correo published today in the city of Puno.

http://www.correoperu.com.pe/correosur/puno/nota.php?id=19850

The commissioner of Desaguadero, Victor Anaya, will

present a lawsuit against American, Michael Farmer,

known as "the cazameteoritos", because he slandered

him by saying that he sold fragments of the meteor.

"Such a man must prove all their slander. The day he

arrived and allegedly contacted me (29 September) I

was in the town of Ilave to support operations, so I could not have driven,

"he said. Anaya showed the complaint, which today

would be filed with the court of Desaguadero, which

also seeks compensation of one million dollars.

"Half of the compensation will be donated to the

community of Carancas." said Victor Anaya,

Michael Farmer also was denounced by advocacy of

crime, because the time was spent Carancas the

community to withdraw the meterorite.

He "Not only defamed the police, he presented himself

as a scientist at the University of Colorado (USA),

and we discovered that he had entered as a tourist".

Their slurs come as a result of that, "he said.

--
Sincerely,

Randall Gregory

"A tranquil mind is paradise"  -----
"Una mente tranquila es el paraíso"

"Speak of positive things"
"Hablar de cosas positivas"

"The tranquil heart cares not what others think"
"El tranquilo corazón no le importa lo que otros piensan"

bible.cc/ecclesiastes/3-1.htm

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:46 ]

No, Mike. The name of the Jim Carrey movie is not the "Cable Guy".


It's "Lier Lier".

Goodnight.

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 04:59 ]

Hell yes, I can argue for that. These people are ignorant. That's not saying they're stupid.

Peruvians are pretty intelligent people. Just look at Macchu Picchu. They built a city on top of a mountain. 100's of years ago. They even have running water at the top of the mountain and a very elaborate aquaduct system. Incredible.

 http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/308011.html

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. THEY DEPENDED ON OUTSIDE SOURCES FOR ANSWERS. you gave them an answer and so did I. But different answers.

I wanted to protect the crater, and develop a engineering plan for extraction. This baby is buried deep, really really deep. It blew away the surface like a rifle bullet thru tissue paper travelling at 10x the speed of a M16, then it hit a combination of water table and loose soil. You know the density of the soil, you were there.

I have no idea as to the depth, but I would like to propose anyone with a ballistics background to develop a model of a 1 - 5 ton rock hitting water. Two meters of surface soil is nothing to a 5 ton meteorite travelling at 65,000 mph or more. My father in law did the calcs (one of the stupid peruvian scientist with a PH.d). We are working on developing a 3 dimentional real-time simulation of the impact. Kinda like a movie but a really accurate movie. I'll take the 3-d composite and convert it into a movie simulation. Just like being there watching the whole ball of wax. I might even go back in time to show it being captured in orbit and a Google simulation showing how it would look if you were riding on the meteroite all the way from outer space. Pretty exciting huh? Gotta go, expedition to Carancas tomorrow. BTW, all this controversy adds to the value of our stones. Oh, one more thing, that quip about Radio Shack. I used to think the same way until I discovered that the Radio Shack was really Pioneer equipment. Finest stereo equipment in the world. Did you know they invented the phase-lock loop circuit to lock in radio stations. Interesting. Radio Shack? I wonder what company is under the brand of the metal detector that I bought from RS. I bet it's a pioneer in the field of metal detecting. And my team are going to have a blast in the strewnfield. Remember that baby was under tremendous dynamic pressures ripping through our atmosphere shedding material all the way down. I heard of 3 other locations on my first trip. How many other locations will I discover on my second trip. Time will tell.

Buy the way, we are either spending our first night at one of these two places. My wife does all that hotel reservation, restaurant and map stuff. She's really good at that and it free's me to do other things.


http://www.go2peru.com/puno_travel_guide.htm

http://www.go2peru.com/puno_peru_hotel.htm


I'm really thinking about this hotel: But my wife will probably choose for me, She knows me.

http://www.sonesta.com/LakeTiticaca/?src=ppc_Google_LakeTiticaca_SIT&iatano=09546386


(feel free to post to the list, I don't monitor it anymore, just too busy) Plus I have a real dislike for Americans. I'll take Peruvians anyday, all day.

Oh, BTW, This is where my craphole office apartment is located. I have a membership at the Marriot health club. My apartment is 3 blocks from the ocean in the most expensive area of Peru. I have 4 really nice casinos nearby where I play poker once in awhile. Yes, I can see the Pacific Ocean, so you might just say I have a ocean-view office. And just in front of the Marriot is a ocean-view mall with Tony Roma's, Hooters, Discotech, Fine shopping, bowling alley, movies, romantic restaurants built into the hill-side, etc.. ect..

Oh I forgot to mention, that my health club has a roof-top pool and tennis courts. Not too shabby for a "craphole". I love South America and Peru better than Hawaii any day, And I lived in Hawaii for a time... figure that one out.

http://gosouthamerica.about.com/cs/peru/l/blpixMiraflores.htm

http://www.on-the-matrix.com/south_america/lima.asp


Just to give you a taste of where I live now. This place "Rocks!!", Adventure Center.

http://www.arequipa-tourism.com/index-en.html

Gotta go: My new Toyota 4x4 turbo will be here in 2 hours and I need a wink of sleep.

http://www.toyota-europe.com/cars/new_cars/hilux/index.aspx

It's unfortunate you entered Peru thru a "Boarder Town" truck stop. I would have warned you not to take that route. Miami - Lima $400 round trip on Spirit, Flight to AQP $100 round trip on Lan, Aerocondor, StarPeru. $30.00 two hour cab ride to crater. Total cost: $530.

www.spiritair.com



Adios,

Randall

On 10/10/07, Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

Nope, just Peruvian ones, who leave a rare meteorite
sitting in piss water. Can you argue for that?
I am listening.
--- Randall Gregory <r.randall.gregory@gmail.com >
wrote:

> Not to mention the scientist in Peru who you called
> stupid. do you believe
> all scientists are stupid?

# Cris says :
21 October, 2007 [ 15:15 ]

Mr. Gregory, please get a clue. Why do you bother posting on this website? Just go to the authorities and let them sort it out. You are just making yourself look like a complete idiot.

# Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 16:14 ]

Mr. Farmer posted the first comment. I felt I had to defend the people of Peru against this person. My posting will stop, unless I'm prodded again.
I really am too busy to be fooling around with this nonsense.

Randall

# americorps says :
21 October, 2007 [ 17:07 ]

Randall Gregory says :
21 October, 2007 [ 16:14 ]

...
I really am too busy to be fooling around with this nonsense.
***********************************

uhmmm...you could have fooled me.

# Darryl Mason says :
22 October, 2007 [ 10:03 ]

Wow, guys, that was incredibly entertaining. Have you both been hit in the head by meteorites at some point?

Gregory, Farmer - you guys should hire a screenwriter to make a movie about your very obvious love of meteorites and hatred of each other. Really. Some of the best and most nutbag flaming I've seen in ages. Congratulations. And happy hunting. Try not to kill each other over a bunch of rocks.

# Kyle says :
22 October, 2007 [ 11:59 ]

Folks filing lawsuits for slander; see ya in court stuff is panty waist. I would much rather see the dueling pistols myself. The best shot walks away with the rocks.

# jack be nimble says :
22 October, 2007 [ 14:40 ]

when in peru,do it the peruvian way
 invite farmer to KFC and bust a cap in his trasero

# Richard says :
23 October, 2007 [ 18:06 ]

WOW... for a guy who "really am too busy to be fooling around with this nonsense.".. Randall spent a BUNCH of time on this writing project....


Michael, Just to let you know.. the piece that I bought from you has been shown to just over 1000 school age kids in the last two weeks.  The scientific information I teach when combined with the physical piece of Carancas really changes the way they look at science.  Over the next few years, this little piece of rock will be shown to 100,000 school age kids or more.  What better use than to excite the minds our future scientists and leaders.  Keep up the good work.

# Randall Gregory says :
23 October, 2007 [ 21:57 ]

I spent a total of about 30 minutes on that. Way too much time. Very nice that the kids are learning, even nicer if Mr. Farmer had donated. But the fact remains, you bought the meteorite from Mr. Farmer's store. You could have bought it from 3 other stores as well. What good work are you talking about? Trying to ruin the reputation of a police chief, researchers, scientists. Lying to authorities. Claiming he's something, when he's not. Flying in with a pocket full of money. Buying for pennies, selling for dollars. PLease explain to us ignorant folks...

Are you really a teacher? What school? Or one of Mike's friends fabricating a story.

Randall

# Michael Farmer says :
23 October, 2007 [ 22:41 ]

This shows the mentality of Mr Gregory. He is so full of hate, I messed up his plans of making millions.
The police ruined themselves with their corruption and greed.
Muying for pennies, selling for dollars............. That is called business, you should know, you bragged about buying Carancas meteorite pieces, you listed some on ebay, was that for charity?
Get a life, I am no longer in Peru, will not go back due to government corruption.

# Randall Gregory says :
25 October, 2007 [ 14:38 ]

The only people I hate are rich, fat, greedy, lying, stupid, ugly meteorite dealers. Everybody else I like.

Making millions... Are you lost in space, again, Mikee. Remember to take your meds so you won't hallucinate so wildly.

Yes Mike, I did post a ebay ad for a meteorite from Carancas with 90% going to charity and Ebay informed that I could not sell for charities unless it was one on their approval list. Want proof?

I am so happy you will never come back to Peru. We don't want your kind. You dirty up the place. STAY OUT! I MEAN IT! STFO. Comprendamundo, Degraciado

Randall

# Randall Gregory says :
17 December, 2007 [ 13:14 ]

Please excuse that last post. This is an emotional issue. I apologize.

Michael Farmer said that the meteorite will "rot" and turn to crap buried in the crater without providing any science to support this belief. I totally disagree with that statement for the reasons listed below:

I believe that what would apply to iron would also apply to the metal in the meteorite.

Oxidation studies at the mud water interface suggest that the amount of oxygen available would be extremely low. There might be very slight surface oxidation, but the meteorite would be well preserved.

I believe we can substitute oxidation for the terms "rotting" and "rusting".

For metal (iron, aluminum, steel, etc...) to oxidize, the conditions must be correct. Both water and oxygen must be present, if either is missing then no rusting occurs. (Aircraft are stored in the Arizona desert which is very dry, and objects buried in mud at the bottom of the sea where there is no oxygen present.

I believe the meteorite is very well protected.

Allow me to correct my previous post when I said "the only people I hate are rich, fat, greedy, lying, stupid, and ugly meteorite dealers"

There are rich and poor people that I love.  There are fat and skinny people that I love. There are some greedy people that I like (but not a whole lot). A person's mind, heart, and soul (and sense of humor) are more important to me. 

Right at this moment, the only person I hate is a dishonest, lying, cheating, stealing, abusive, profane, obnoxious, and a disgrace to the meteorite and scientific communities by the name of Michael Farmer of  "Michael Farmer Meteorites"  www.meteoriteguy.com

Michael Farmer (meteorite dealer) has no interest and little knowledge in the actual science. His love for money far exceeds his love for meteorites and what they represent. To him, meteorites represent $$$.

Sad to say, some people blindly believe what he says because of his very large meteorite collection.

# Randall Gregory says :
17 December, 2007 [ 13:26 ]

 # Michael Farmer says :     20 October, 2007 [ 11:20 ]

Randall Gregory is as nutty as a fruitcake.
He is selling Carancas on ebay, for $50.00 shipping for one gram!

It's true that I put $50 shipping for Carancas stones. Fedex and DHL here in Peru charge OVER $50 up to 1/2 kilo.

I trust FedEx and DHL. I have made two tests shipments using EMS through Peru's Serpost. One shipment to the United States and the other to Australia. The cost for shipping using this service was close to $10. If it ships ok, I'll stay with EMS, if not, I'll go back to FedEx or DHL.

# Randall Gregory says :
17 December, 2007 [ 13:32 ]

Michael Farmer said that the meteorite will "rot" and turn to crap buried in the crater without providing any science to support this belief. I totally disagree with that statement for the reasons listed below:



Allow me to correct when I said "the only people I hate are rich, fat, greedy, lying, stupid, and ugly meteorite dealers"

There are rich and poor people that I love.  There are fat and skinny people that I love. There are some greedy people that I like (but not a whole lot). here are smart and stupid people that I love. There are ugly and good looking people that I love.

Let me rephrase that last post. Right at this moment, the only person I hate is dishonest, lying, cheating, stealing, abusive, profane, obnoxious, and a disgrace to the  meteorite and scientific communities by the name of Michael Farmer of  "Michael Farmer Meteorites"  www.meteoriteguy.com

Michael Farmer is a meteorite dealer and lacks the understanding of the underlying science. His love for money far exceeds his love for meteorites and what they represent. He has built a reputation based on ruthless dealings and intimidation. Some people have a tendency to belive what he says, because of his very large meteorite collection and that to me is very unfortunate.

# Randall Gregory says :
17 December, 2007 [ 13:48 ]

Sorry for accidently posting twice. Mozilla copy and paste issue.

# hmm says :
17 December, 2007 [ 14:06 ]

Why don't you both f*** off?

# mericorps says :
17 December, 2007 [ 15:53 ]

I have to agree with hmm,

You two are 2 of the biggest loosers and biggest fools and stupidest children I have ever seen and while I quit reading your ignorant pissing contest some time ago, you are still polluting this webspace with your trash and I want you to know that I am SURE most on this board, while I can not speak for them...would agree with me..

You are both trash and your posts nothing more than verbal diarreah.

# Randall Gregory says :
17 December, 2007 [ 16:56 ]

Mericorps,
You have just shown everyone reading this list your stupidity. Repeated four times in your last post.

1) It is "losers" not loosers.
2) And it's "diarrhea" not diarreah.
3) Use a period not a comma to end a sentence.
4)And what's with your paragraph length sentence going on and on and on filled with "and" and commas, ... and .. 

Your paragraph length sentence is certainly what I would call "verbal diarrhea".Most 6th graders are better at writing than you. I can't speak for the other readers, but I am SURE that most on this board would agree that you are the stupid one.

MF created the very first comment about this article calling the Peruvian scientist "clueless". He has also used other degrading names for Peruvian scientists in public. Dr. Nunez is my friend. We made a 3 day expedition together to search for the Aplao meteorite crater. Dr. Nunez was intrumental in making the Carancas crater protection proposals a reality.

Your negative opinion is worthless. You have the option of not reading, and I would suggest that you use this option. As for the other people, let them speak. I hope their comments will be less negative than yours.

And what would your real name be? Do you live in Peru? Are you Peruvian? I am not Peruvian but I do live in Peru.

# tony montoya says :
17 December, 2007 [ 17:56 ]

Hey I agree 100% with mirecorps,, and who cares if he made a spelling error,,   You two are 2 of the biggest loosers and biggest fools....well said. 
try to use less coca in your cocopuffs there Randal?

# Randall Gregory says :
17 December, 2007 [ 22:59 ]

Do any of you guys actually live in Peru?

# tony montoya says :
18 December, 2007 [ 07:17 ]

Randal Yanna Pupu!  I live in the real Peru Profundo 15 years now, not in Lima Manta,,, and dude lay of the white stuff,,, just say no.

# Randall Gregory says :
18 December, 2007 [ 19:19 ]

I don't do the white stuff, but I do chew the leaves sometimes. Helps with altitude sickness in Arequipa and Puno. I live in Arequipa most of the time.

# Carlos Vanda says :
18 December, 2007 [ 20:29 ]

How is that meteorite extraction going? Did Peru give up?

# Randall Gregory says :
18 December, 2007 [ 23:04 ]

I made a televised public plea to the people of Peru when I was in Puno to please protect the crater.  IGEMMET followed up with a plan to divert the  spring rains and the local government responded.

I believe the meteorite is safely protected by the cold mud from oxidation but this will take a great deal of planning to protect the crater and still extract the meteorite.

I'll be going back to Carancas this month to see what the situation is.

# Randall Gregory says :
22 December, 2007 [ 21:23 ]

Professor Nunez and I are hoping to set up a Carancas Meteorite Crater Preservation Fund sometime in the near future. This fund will be administered by a third-party organization for work on preserving the crater for future generations. It will be probably a last-ditch effort to save this historic meteorite for science.

# nz says :
23 December, 2007 [ 09:52 ]

Well well: this situation is still going on.

I again sense that this is all about(money) it really does'nt matter what side of the fence you come from or are on (at the end of the Day) everyone s and the overall prospective is about ( the almighty) dollar and who is entitle to attain to this concept.

# hmm says :
23 December, 2007 [ 09:57 ]

Randall Gregory, please, please, please go away and don't come back.
In other words... asI said before... Why don't you f*** off?

# Randall Gregory says :
23 December, 2007 [ 10:55 ]

I can see your a really positive person. Merry Christmas to you too. I live in Peru. OK?  Why don't you go away?

# Randall Gregory says :
23 December, 2007 [ 11:02 ]

nz,

To some people, it's all about money and to others, it's all about science. The other side of the fence. This is a historic fall and needs to be preserved.

The highest fall in history at over 3100 meters
The largest witnessed stone fall in history
Electrophonic sounds were heard
First meteorite to fall in a World Heritage Site
First meteorite to make people ill
The newest, freshest crater on earth
etc. etc etc...

Merry Christmas to All,

# Mr Ed says :
23 December, 2007 [ 11:26 ]

Please stop beating the dead horse

# Randall Gregory says :
23 December, 2007 [ 14:12 ]

It's not dead yet! Sick but not dead. This is for the people of Peru, scientists of the world, and future generations. If you're not interested then don't read and don't post. Please...

# hmm says :
23 December, 2007 [ 17:10 ]

Why the hell would I care if you live in Peru or not? I still want you to shut up. So do many others here, as you well know.

# hmm says :
23 December, 2007 [ 17:14 ]

Your idiot friend Farmer shut up a long time ago, yet you remain, mostly replying to yourself. What the hell is wrong with you? Go to the beach or something.

# Randall Gregory says :
23 December, 2007 [ 18:39 ]

You just don't understand about this Carancas Meteorite Fall and it's significance. I know Mike Farmer stopped posting and I'm glad he did.

Think about it for awhile, then if you want, reply. Otherwise there are many many articles here that you might find interesting. Fujimori, Garcia, Chavez, Morales, etc. Just forget about this thread. OK?

Care to reveal your real name? hmm. I thought not.

# Rich says :
21 January, 2008 [ 20:37 ]

Randall,

For two minutes in the pub last night we discussed your case and we came to the brief conclusion that:

- in your writing you make yourself sound foolish, rude and unintelligent. Is this the impression you want to give? If it is, carry on. If not, try and change the way you write....

Rich

# Randall Gregory says :
25 January, 2008 [ 00:11 ]

Rich,

Why would you even care about this situation or myself for that matter? This event is over.
 
I tried my best to help preserve the crater for the Peruvian people and in the interest of science but was unsucessful. Even Hernando Nunez of IGEMMET has stopped trying. Unfortunatly it's the way of the world.

I would kindly suggest that you spend your time on other things rather than this thread. The crater is washed away and the meteorite in the ground is destroyed.

Efforts at protecting the world from global warming, terrorism, deforestation, and other more serious issues will meet with the same unfortunate results.

Anyway, I hope this will be my last post on this topic.

# Randall Gregory says :
11 March, 2008 [ 08:40 ]

My final word on this sad story. Will the government of Peru extract the meteorite still buried at the crater? Maybe. Does it really matter? NO.

It has been estimated that anywhere between 6 - 12 kilograms have been recovered. Some of it in scientific institutions and some of it in private (dealer) hands. There is enough to satisfy the demands of science.

We alll know that Mr. Farmer wanted that big chuck of money (meteorite) buried in Carancas. Please don't be nieve. Mr. Farmer is a DEALER and makes his living buying and selling meteorites. Nothing wrong with making a living if you do it honestly but there is nothing honest in Mr. Farmer dealings. He is probably the most corrupt dealer the meteorite community has ever known. Just recently he posted a sales on Ebay for meteorites he personally collected in Australia yet the government of Australia has banned the export of "National Treasures". He also has offered Libyan glass (tektites) for sale that he recently acquired yet the United States forbids trade with Libya. It is unfortunate that his actions still remain unchecked.

The incredible damage he did in Carancas was due to his avarice and greed. He also hurt the entire meteoritic community and tarnished what was a noble hobby. Does anyone believe his intentions were in the interest of science? Of course not. His only contact with science is to get the meteorites that he purchased classified. Meteorites are worth far more if they have offical classification.
 
He flew into one of the poorest areas of Peru with pockets full of money hoping to get the big prize. The poor people of Carancas live in a community where land is distributed and shared among the residents. An area that was recently devastated by a cold snap that killed scores of children from respitory infections caused by weakened immune systems due to malnutrition.

He tells the entire community that they have a million dollars buried in Carancas! I can only imagine the dreams of these people. New schools, food, medical facilities and the opportunity for a better standard of living for their families. They put their trust in this American. Honest people who believed a dishonest dealer.The result was a mass protest against the government of Desaguardero for not digging up the meteorite.

Mr. Farmer told the police that he was a "scientist". When the police found out he was not a scientist and had entered Peru on a tourist visa, and after the problems he caused with the population, they forced him to leave. And even now, he continues to publiclly trash the names of officals, scientists and people of Peru on this web-site.  

Shame on you Mike Farmer.

# nadia says :
23 April, 2008 [ 06:08 ]

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http://www.atlanticcity.com/blog