Living in Peru : your everyday companion

First California gay marriage to honeymoon in Cusco, Peru

Living in Peru
Israel J. Ruiz

After being one of the first gay men to receive a California wedding license, George Takei, best known for playing Mr Sulu in Star Trek, announced that he and his partner would be heading to Peru for their honeymoon.

"We'll be going to South America, Buenos Aires, Igazu Falls, Lima, Cusco and Machu Picchu, a historic place my parents went and a place I have dreamed of going," said the 71-year-old actor.

The Star Trek star is to marry 54-year-old Brad Altman, his partner for the past 21 years, in September.

They received their marriage license in West Hollywood on Tuesday.

"Congratulations to all of us and may equality live long and prosper," said Takei to a supportive and delighted crowd that was unable to hold back their cheers.

Takei and Altman were among the first homosexual couples to receive their marriage license after California's Supreme Court lifted its ban on same-sex marriage.

The state affirmed that the "right to form a family relationship" applied to everyone in California, regardless of sexuality.

According to E!, Takei, who recently appeared on the US TV series Heroes, is the first celebrity to take the plunge.

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# mericorps says :
18 June, 2008 [ 15:51 ]

When they tied the knot, Mr. Takai's statement to the press was: "Congratulations to all of us and may equality live long and prosper."

Corny as it may sound, it is a beautiful sentiment that is very meaningful for the world today.

I wish the newlyweds the best of luck and offer my congratulations! I hope their trip to Peru is everything they want it to be.

# Millie Souza says :
18 June, 2008 [ 19:21 ]

Unfortunately, Peru is still a very homophobic country.  I read this sad story recently:

Rape of gay man by Peruvian police sparks international protest

The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) is asking its supporters to write to the authorities in Peru about the handling of a case of alleged rape.

The commission, along with La Libertad GLTB Association from Peru, is trying to bring international pressure to bear in asking for a fair and throughout investigation of Luis Alberto Rojas Marín's case.

It is alleged that on February 25th three police officers repeatedly raped and sexually assaulted Mr Marín, 26, because he is gay.

Last month a magistrate ordered that the officers be remanded in custody, a highly unusual decision and reportedly the first time that Peruvian authorities have ever ordered the arrests of police officers for committing hate crimes or human rights abuses related to sexual orientation.

However, the police, rather than suspend the officers, is paying for their legal advice.

Supporters of the police launched a campaign of protests, abusing the alleged victim's sexuality and blaming him for the rape.

The three officers have now been released by a more senior judge.

"On February 25, 2008, at, at the Casa Grande District National Peruvian Police Station, which is based in Ascope County in the La Libertad Region of Peru, 26 year-old Luís Alberto Rojas Marín became the victim of several crimes," IGLHRC said in a statement.

"At the police station, three police officers-Dino Horacio Ponce Pardo, Luís Miguel Quispe Cáceres and Juan Isaac León Mostacero-reportedly took his money and belongings, and later undressed and raped him, forcing him to submit to a variety of different sexual practices.

"Mr Rojas Marín was left naked the whole night. At six in the morning the police officers returned his clothes and finally set him free. The victim maintains he was abused because of his sexual orientation.

"The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission joins La Libertad GLTB Association from Peru in requesting that you write letters to the Peruvian authorities, asking for a fair and throughout investigation of Luis Alberto Rojas Martin's rape case, ensuring that those responsible for the crime are duly identified, tried and punished and that the victim gets an effective remedy and fair compensation."

http://www.iglhrc.org/site/iglhrc/section.php?id=5&detail=853

# David says :
18 June, 2008 [ 23:43 ]

Does anyone know why homosexuality is against the law in most countries?

Does anyone know why it has been frowned upon for Thousands of years?

# Touzin R. says :
19 June, 2008 [ 00:29 ]

I believe an alledged rape of a gay man by police officers (or else) should not be taken that serious until further investigation and evidence prove otherwise.

Unfortunately rape happens quite often everywhere in the globe, regardless of sex, so I strongly dissagree with the assumption that Peru is a very homophobic country.  It certainly is CONSERVATIVE but not homophobic. 

By the way, California and the United States are very conservative societies too, as compared to Europe.

# To David says :
19 June, 2008 [ 02:26 ]

To David:

The answer for both question is Christianity.
Before Christianity. all ancient cultures accepted homosexuality, bisexuality or heterosexuality as being completely NORMAL. There were gay marriages in ancient times, most notably among the Romans.
For example, Martial attests to same-sex marriages between men during the early Roman Empire. (Epigrams 1.24, 12.42)
The Emperors Nero and Elagabalus, are known to have married men in lavish public ceremonies amid the rejoicings of the Romans. Emperors who were universally praised and lauded by the Romans, such as Hadrian and Trajan openly had male lovers. Hadrian's lover, Antinuous, received deification upon his death and numerous statues exist of him today, more than any other non-imperial person.

Among the Romans, bisexuality seems to have been perceived as the ideal. Edward Gibbon (writing in the 18th century) mentions, of the first fifteen emperors, "Claudius was the only one whose taste in love was entirely correct"—the implication being that he was the only one not to take men as lovers. Gibbon based this on Suetonius' factual statement that "He had a great passion for women, but had no interest in men."


Then came the Christians....

The first law against homosexual marriage was promulgated by the Christian emperors Constantius and Constans.^[11] Nevertheless, the Christian emperors continued to collect taxes on male prostitutes until the reign of Anastasius (491-518). In the year 390, the Christian emperors Valentinian II, Theodoisus and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be burned alive in front of the public. ^[12] The Christian emperor Justinian (527-565) made homosexuals a scape goat for problems such as "famines, earthquakes, and pestilences." ^[13]


So the entire blame for homophobia in the modern world rests solely upon Christianity, a religion which has also upheld the Inquisition, racism, imperialism, sexism, slavery, etc. and all manners of atrocities ..all in the name of their precious religion.

That's why I laugh whenever I hear a Christian claim that he follows Jesus' teaching about loving everyone as you love yourself.... Riiiiiggght

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 02:41 ]

David:  in Peru, when someone is "clueless" we say: "este es un caido de la palmera", or "this guy fell off a palm tree".  So, you qualify.

Hello David?....homosexuality is against the law in most countries and it has been frowned upon for thousands of years because........it's connected to an unnatural act!  I can't be explicit here....but you get my drift, don't you?
Without mentioning "God"....NATURE is all about perpetuating LIFE....just like in order to produce light, or generate electricity you need a plug and a socket....not two plugs or two sockets..... 

Are we on the same page?.....Think it through, David, think it through.

I agree with Touzin R.....Peru is not so much homophobic as it is conservative and traditional.
It's important for us to uphold the family as it was intended, basically....by Nature. If I say "God", then it gets very complex.....but you can't fool "Mother Nature", my friend David. Oh.....there are a few "irregulars" in Nature.....but that's only a small percentage.  Nature is mostly precise.

David, I will also remind you that Peru is a Catholic country. Peruvians are extremely family-minded and the thought of being grandparents someday is of great importance.  Think it through, David, think it through!
Peruvian parents, particularly mothers, don't take it too well when they can't have grandchildren.....their intrinsic, natural right.  Many people feel extreme grief when their children cant' procreate when there's a case of infertility.....so how do you suppose most people in Peru feel about homosexuality???

Think it through, David!

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 03:25 ]

"To David" (the second "David"): Let's not confuse LOVE with lust. The debauchery of the Romans is well-known and it wouldn't exactly be a "model" lifestyle for most decent people. Just because the Romans perceived bisexuality as the "ideal" doesn't make it ok, does it?

# Christians are Evil says :
19 June, 2008 [ 03:35 ]

Hello loving Christians

You are the same people who were were yelling about interracial
marriages being unnatural and evil and not exactly be a "model" lifestyle for most decent people back in the 1970's.

You are the same people who wanted women to be slaves to men, being kept covered head to toe, with no rights and used as a piece of property back in the Middle Ages.

You are the same loving people who went around the world, to Asia and America and killed the "savages" and converted and told them how to think.

The same loving kind Christians who upheld slavery and used the Bible to say that God approved of it.


All I can say is your God is a worthless piece of scum. I'd rather worship a piece of stone than pay any deference to a God of a church whose who goal and message throughout history has been to spread HATE, MURDER, BIGOTRY, SEXISM and HOMOPHOBIA.

So take your God and Religion and shove it.

# Don Quixote says :
19 June, 2008 [ 03:40 ]

"The debauchery of the Romans" is a myth invented by dim-witted Christians like so called "Saint" Augustine and a host of other Christians to make Pagans look evil. I suggest you try to study real history and wake up. Sex is a natural thing and was also a natural thing until the Christians came along and made it into a "sin" and "perversion" ... and declared that all pleasure was a sin .. so you could only have sex in order to have children and that's it.... By the way the glorious church has also declared Gluttony to be one of the Seven DEADLY Sins.... have you forgotten that? How many Peruvians glut themsleves daily with high-calorie high-fat richly prepared foods and tasty deserts.  Looks like a lot of Peruvians are going to Hell, at least according to the perverted Church .. whose only concern these days is to molest as many altar boys as possible while as the same time preaching against the evils of gay marriage.

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 03:48 ]

Don Quixote:  YOU have the incredibly obese people, we don't.  You can't compare a "rounded" person, to.......a "refrigerator".

# Don says :
19 June, 2008 [ 03:50 ]

To Alonso

The first laws against Homosexuality were published in the year 342 A.D. when the Christian emperor Constantius decided to start persecuting gay people. That is 2,350 years ago. Before that it was accepted as being totally normal.

If you look in the animal kingdom, there is ample evidence that animals are also gay and people and animals are born gay just like people are born with a certain skin color or eye color are BORN THAT WAY. There have been numerous scientific studies and it is now a KNOWN FACT.

What is also a known fact is that the people who are most homophobic are those who are trying to hide the fact that they are either bisexual or homosexual and don't want others to know or are just trying to deceive themselves.

Now you know, Alonso, that is ok to be attracted to other men, as you evidentenly are. You wouldn't have any problem with gay people unless you were unsure about your own sexuality.

I point out to you this amusing study which proved that homophobic men are hiding their own laten homosexual feelings:

http://www.oogachaga.com/downloads/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf

# Gay Peru says :
19 June, 2008 [ 04:12 ]

Hey Alonso,

I suggest you go to the museums in Peru and check out all the all of the vases that survive that were made by the Indians in PERU before the Spanish came and which depict GAY SEX. 

Yes GAY PERUVIAN VASES and PAINTING
made before the Christian Spanish came and said it was EVIL
WOW.. The Scandal!!!

You are so proud to be Peruvian... then be proud of your gay heritage.. the Spanish brought the Insquisition with them and one of the things they used it for was to make the Indians believe that homosexuality was wrong... before the Spanish came it was NORMAL.

# Peru Gay says :
19 June, 2008 [ 04:19 ]

Here is a picture of a ancient Peruvian artifact for you
which depicts gay sex:

http://www.drawrm.com/e3s.jpg

http://www.dhushara.com/paradoxhtm/warrior/moche1.jpg

Oh my God, The HORROR
Its the end of the world as we know it.

# Peru Gay says :
19 June, 2008 [ 04:39 ]

Once taboo, erotic ceramics a link to ancient Peru

The Moche ceramics, popular tourist attractions at fine museums, explore sexual values in pre-Columbian Peru.

By RICK VECCHIO
Associated Press

LIMA - Nearly 40 years ago, historian Maximo Terrazos descended narrow stairs into a tomb-like chamber where, he says, he experienced a sexual awakening of sorts.

Then a 20-year-old university student, he was escorted along with his classmates to a subterranean room marked ''Private'' in Peru's Museum of Archaeology, Anthropology and History to see huacos eróticos for the first time.

Before them were explicit ceramic depictions of sexual acts crafted more than 1,500 years earlier by the Moche, a highly organized, class-based society that dominated Peru's northern coast for 800 years until about 800 A.D.

''For me it was jolting,'' says Terrazos, who went on to devote his career to studying sexuality in ancient Peru. ``We were the first students who had ever been allowed to see them.''

For decades, the huacos eróticos, or erotic ceramics, were locked away from the public, accessible only to an elite group of Peruvian social scientists. Occasionally and reluctantly they were made available to select foreign researchers from the United States and Europe.

''You couldn't talk about them because they were considered huacos pornográficos,'' Terrazos said. ``They were known as huacos prohibidos because of the taboo imposed by the Christian religion that men have sex only for procreation and that women do not experience sexual pleasure.''

Today, exhibitions of these ceramics, running the full gamut of sexual practices, are popular attractions in some of Peru's finest museums.

The Moche ceramics have opened the door to a wide field of study of sexual values in pre-Columbian Peru. Their study also casts a historical spotlight on centuries of repression by Spanish colonial bureaucrats and Inquisition-era priests bent on extirpating demonic influence from the hearts, minds and loins of the native populace.

MANY ITEMS DESTROYED

In Spanish colonial Peru, huacos eróticos, like most indigenous icons, were smashed, Terrazos said.

In the 1570s, Viceroy Francisco de Toledo and his clerical advisors were obsessed with eliminating sodomy, masturbation and a common social practice that the Quechua-speaking populace referred to in terms that translate roughly as ``trial marriage.''

Toledo and the priests were aghast to find that not only was homosexuality accepted in several regions of the country but that the indigenous population also placed no particular importance on female chastity and made no prohibition against premarital sex.

VIRGINITY SEEN AS `VILE'

One of Peru's most famous colonial-era churchmen, Jesuit José de Acosta, wrote in 1590 that ''virginity, which is viewed with esteem and honor by all men, is deprecated by those barbarians as something vile,'' according to Family Values in Seventeenth-Century Peru, an article by Duke University anthropologist Irene Silverblatt.

''Except for the virgins consecrated to the sun or the Inca, all other women are considered of less value when they are virgin, and thus whenever possible they give themselves to the first man they find,'' de Acosta complained.

To put matters right, Toledo ordered that evangelized natives caught cohabiting outside church-sanctioned wedlock receive 100 lashes of the whip ``to persuade these Indians to remove themselves from this custom so detrimental and pernicious.''

Toledo also issued several decrees aimed at creating near total segregation of the sexes in public. Violations were punishable by 100 lashes and two years' service in pestilential state hospitals.

Under the Inquisition, brought to Peru in 1569, homosexuals could be burned at the stake. Sexual mores in 21st century Peru are a far cry from what Toledo and his Jesuit advisors hoped for more than 400 years ago. Social prohibitions against premarital sex are preached and female virginity is exalted, but neither is necessarily adhered to.

Thousands of hourly-rate hostels operate 24 hours a day in cities to provide couples with privacy that is unavailable at home.

In working-class households, it is common to see nudie calendars hanging on the same walls as icons of Jesus and the Virgin Mary.

The American public first became aware of huacos eróticos in 1954, when Indiana University's Dr. Alfred Kinsey -- author of the famous Kinsey Reports on human sexual behavior -- traveled to Lima to investigate Peru's archaeological dirty secret.

The Moche artifacts, Kinsey wrote, were ``the most frank and detailed document of sexual customs ever left by an ancient people.''

 

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/moche/ceramics.htm

# Rice and sugar says :
19 June, 2008 [ 08:32 ]

Dear Peru Gay, I am hungry. 
Peruvians in many parts of the country, we are struggling against hunger, poverty and unemployment. Many hungry kids may become "prey" to these new homosexual visitors. Please, respect those kids. Don't offer them food in return for other unnatural "favours".

As Alonso has explained it well, Peruvians - we are traditional in what relates to family. Despite the Catholic church, we are still open minded, however, don't confuse that with "gay lust" and please do not take advantage of our hungry children. I personally have nothing against gay people, but I have to agree with Alonso, in many ways. I fear that these rich gay visitors may molest and lure our hungry children.

# Rice and sugar says :
19 June, 2008 [ 08:32 ]

Dear Peru Gay, I am hungry. 
Peruvians in many parts of the country, we are struggling against hunger, poverty and unemployment. Many hungry kids may become "prey" to these new homosexual visitors. Please, respect those kids. Don't offer them food in return for other unnatural "favours".

As Alonso has explained it well, Peruvians - we are traditional in what relates to family. Despite the Catholic church, we are still open minded, however, don't confuse that with "gay lust" and please do not take advantage of our hungry children. I personally have nothing against gay people, but I have to agree with Alonso, in many ways. I fear that these rich gay visitors may molest and lure our hungry children.

# I agree says :
19 June, 2008 [ 09:48 ]

 I am glad Peru is very conservative, and being a homo is not accepted by the majority of society.

# Alexandra says :
19 June, 2008 [ 10:21 ]

I agree with Alonso I think all those huacos gays are fakes. Gay has to be illegal and we have to be good christians. People who are not christians have to leave peru forever and dont come back!

# David says :
19 June, 2008 [ 10:52 ]

  

OK to David,

Why is it that the Christians "outlawed" homosexuality. There must be a reason behind it.

And thanks for the information on the subject which you supplied.

Alonso,

I asked very simple questions looking for information. I didn't want to sway the opinion of any of the responders by slanting my question.

For the record, I am not homosexual and have my reasons for not leaning toward that "Lifestyle". But they are my reasons and they have nothing at all to do with the church. Are "we" on the same page?

While I don't personally agree with the act of homosexuality, I can appreciate some of the great things that have been accomplished by this segment of society.

Through my life I have been educated by men and women that were both hetero and homosexual and have learned a great deal for all.

My goal in this was to illicit unbiased opinion from others here on a sensitive subject. Hoping to shed some light on this topic that we may have not seen before.

I certainly have learned a great deal. Thank you to all that have included links and history in there responses.

I hope I have proven that even though we may not see eye to eye on some issues we can still respect one another opinions.

David

P.S. Trying to bully people and intimidate them with your words and actions only goes to show how limited you are. So all the BOLDING gets you nowhere except to be though of as an intimidator, bully, Neanderthal. You know who you are.

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 11:42 ]

Don: that's what I said:  NATURE (the animal kingdom included) makes "bloopers" once in a while.....just like the textile industry.  Fortunately, I love women.....thanks for the link, but I don't need it.

Gay Peru: Look at NATURE!......at least 98% of it.  I have been to the Larco Herrera Museum and upon observing the erotic "huacos" , I confirmed once again that NATURE indeed makes "bloopers".

Amen to "Rice and Sugar" and "I agree". There are many people out there who agree with you but who are afraid of being "politically incorrect".....but fortunately there are people like you who just don't buy it, even with some of the epistles above, written by Don and Peru Gay.  They are only "smoke screens" and justifications for a lifestyle of a comparatively small number of people in the world.

# Alexandra says :
19 June, 2008 [ 11:52 ]

Burn them.

# Get real says :
19 June, 2008 [ 13:12 ]

Haha, all these people so afraid of "gays". Sorry, but you are probably gay yourself if you feel such anxiety when you think about it.  What exactly are you afraid of?  Be honest with yourself.

Gay people are just like everybody else.  Some are jerks, some are very cool.  Some exploit others and others are kindhearted.  No different than heterosexuals.  Some heterosexuals seduce 12 year old girls because they are warped people.  The vast majority don't.  Same thing happens with gays, while the vast majority are just good honest citizens. People are people.

If you spend time worrying about what 2 people do behind closed doors then it's you that has the problem.

# Science is God says :
19 June, 2008 [ 15:26 ]

Alonso and David, I assume you are uneducated...
with all the information and facts presented you should be
hiding your heads in shame..instead you ignore the facts
and make a silly attempt an an argument that homosexuality
in not common among animals, which is a blantant LIE.

Homosexual behavior is not only common, but even more common in other species than in humans. While numbers are hard to come by, there are a few that present some interesting patterns. In ostriches, male homosexuality is much more common than bisexuality, but among mule deer, bisexuality is more common than homosexuality. Among our closest living relatives, the bonobo chimpanzees, few if any are either exclusively heterosexual or homosexual. Indeed, all that have been observed are exclusively permanently bisexual.

As for numbers, here are a few:

 

species	percent homosexual	percent bisexual	percent heterosexual
silver gulls (females)	10	11	79
black headed gulls (both sexes)	22	15	63
Japanese macaques (both sexes)	9	56	35
bonobo chimpanzees (both sexes)	0	100	0
galahs (both sexes)	44	11	44
source: Bruce Bahemihl, Ph.D., Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, St. Martin's Press, 2000, page 35

The occurence of homosexuality doesn't seem to be correlated with the predominance of a sex within a species. Some species show skewed sex ratios, but among them, homosexuality is not more common than in other species. For example, giant cowbirds and redwing blackbirds show male to female ratios as high as four to one, and in boat-tailed grackles and sparrow hawks, females predominate, but homosexuality has not been demonstrated in either species. Why is a mystery.

Homosexuality in the animal kingdom is an undeniable fact. It is as natural as can be.


For more information see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
and
http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

As for homosexuality being a "lifestyle" , you only wish it was
because you are obviously struggling with your own latent homosexuality and trying your best to hide it by spewing your bigoted remarks sort of like Mark Foley and Ted Haggard huh? LOL They spent their lives preach agains the "evils of homosexuality" only to be exposed as engaging in gay sex throughout their lives...

David it's ok, you were born that way so accept it.. it isn't a "lifestyle" choice as you are desperately trying to make it...

# Pasatiempo says :
19 June, 2008 [ 16:52 ]

wow, what a volatile exchange. I personally have many wonderful friends in my life who are homosexual and I feel no reason to persecute people who are different than me when they are otherwise kind wonderful members of society. It is not my sexual preference but I also don't care who someone chooses to love in their life, it's all the hatred bigotry and fear mongering that is more worrisome. In this day and age people should learn to live and let live. Gay people are not trying to convert anyone, unlike the religious zealots preaching their brand of beliefs.
Interesting that the police officers who assaulted the gay man, did so by inflicting a violent 'also sexually oriented' assault on him. Doesn't say much about them.
To Rice and Sugar, those people coming to Peru preying on children ARE NOT homosexuals as broadly defined. Those are called pedophiles and are completely different, do not confuse or mix the definitions.  

# julia says :
19 June, 2008 [ 18:02 ]

Alonso, I have to laugh at your argument that homosexuality involves an "unnatural act". I'm female, and every Peruvian guy I've dated has wanted to do that "unnatural act" with me...

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 18:11 ]

It's interesting to see that some people keep bringing up "animals"..........Freudian slip perhaps?
Some of you have brought up "Romans".....as in Caligula? as in "Roman orgies"?  It's not hard to figure out where your mind is!

We are rational animals and we can make a decision no to think with our privates.......that's what sets us apart from dogs, goats, pigs and the like.  "Science is God".....99% of people are not interested in the sexual habits of animals  and it wouldn't occur to most of us to be concerned with statistics of homosexuality in animals.  Who cares!.........unless you're a biologist. Why did you go through all that trouble just to get this useless information?  how does it apply to you, may I ask?

We're talking about humans here, about living in a society.  While occasional homosexual activity in animals is inconsequential, homosexual activity among human beings seriously affects families, especially in countries like Peru.  I have a "gay" (what a ridiculous euphemism) cousin, and while our relatives include him and his partner in family gatherings, it makes everyone feel uncomfortable and embarrassed.  This is true, especially when they have to be introduced to friends and acquaintances.  My straight-laced, dignified aunt and uncle went into mourning when they realized that their son would be in a homosexual relationship and never have natural children. I'm sharing this so that most of you will understand something about Peruvian culture and mores.

Folks, some things take years to change and we can't force people to accept situations involving morals.....overnight, or ever!....especially conservatives.  Some people don't like things jammed down their throats. They need time to understand the "bloopers" of Nature. Can you understand and respect that?

# Rita says :
19 June, 2008 [ 18:21 ]

Alonso I have a new flash for you.

Peru is OVERPOPULATED... taking into account the level of development of its productive capacity, Peru is overpopulated and undercapitalized, and therefore unable to operate entirely under the rules of production and distribution that govern a capitalist system...
If more people were gay in Peru it migth actually help Peru on its way to becoming less POLLUTED and even pave the way for it to become a first world country.

So Put that in your homophobic pipe and SMOKE IT.

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 18:31 ]

Everybody read Julia's comment, please.  

Julia: hello?.....it doesn't matter if any guy, whether he is Peruvian, Tibetan or Norwegian...wants to go this route. It is still an unnatural act.  I can't go into detail here, but let's say that "sterile" should matter to you, and obviously it does because you wrote "has wanted to do that with me". You obviously refused because you found the unnatural act distasteful. 

Enough said.......now, which part of the above innuendos don't you understand?

# mericorps says :
19 June, 2008 [ 18:36 ]

Actually, Alonzo, homosexuality does not seriously hurt society, bigotry does. You have joined with the dark side of society, not me.

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 18:41 ]

Rita:  what a ridiculous concept.....you're way off on left field.  Please, get your facts straight (no pun intended): Peru is not overpopulated.....Lima is.  Eventually a lot of people will return to their department of origin or migrate to other parts of Peru to have a better quality of living.  Please go to the state department page and look up statistics on Peru. I don't have the time, nor the desire to go on a long dissertation here about this matter.

# alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 19:05 ]

mericorps and others of her persuasion:  go ahead and defend your position, I don't care. As for me, I'm going on a trip....so I need to pack.  As a matter of fact, I'm going to a wedding....(yes, of course, a heterosexual wedding), and I've been asked to be the guest speaker. So I need to prepare my speech.....adios, everyone! 

# Alonso says :
19 June, 2008 [ 19:10 ]

By the way, California.....you know what to do come November, don't you? 

# Tonia says :
19 June, 2008 [ 19:21 ]

Alonso I can't believe someone could be as ignorant and uneducated as you. Have you ever gone to school? You need to enroll in basics economic class. Even a high school student can tell you that when a country's population decreses, the wages of every person rise because each person's labor has more value. The reason why wages are so low in Peru is because the country is over-populated in every region for the resources and capital that is available in Peru.

Overpopulation has a definite effect on a Peru’s economy.  First of all, when countries are overpopulated, the hardly have enough food to support themselves, never mind the hope of having a surplus to sell.  This can contribute to a low GDP per Capita which is effect overpopulation has on the economy.  In an attempt to save the people from the starvation, the government will most likely have to rely on foreign debt.  This puts the country in debt at stretches the government’s already meagre resources.  Furthermore, when a country is overpopulated, there is a high rate of unemployment because there just aren’t enough jobs to support the population.  This results in a high level of crime because the people will need to steal things in order to survive.

Sound familiar huh?  Sounds just like PERU..

Take a look at the effect of overpopulation. I wonder what country this could be an example of?  Perphaps PERU:

Effects of overpopulation

Some problems associated with or exacerbated by human overpopulation:

• Inadequate fresh water^[125] for drinking water use as well as sewage treatment and effluent discharge. Some countries, like Saudi Arabia, use energy-expensive desalination to solve the problem of water shortages.^[146][147]
• Depletion of natural resources, especially fossil fuels^[148]
• Increased levels of air pollution, water pollution, soil contamination and noise pollution. Once a country has industrialized and become wealthy, a combination of government regulation and technological innovation causes pollution to decline substantially, even as the population continues to grow.^[130]
• Deforestation and loss of ecosystems^[149] that sustain global atmospheric oxygen and carbon dioxide balance; about eight million hectares of forest are lost each year.^[150]
• Changes in atmospheric composition and consequent global warming^[151]
• Irreversible loss of arable land and increases in desertification^[152] Deforestation and desertification can be reversed by adopting property rights, and this policy is successful even while the human population continues to grow.^[153]
• Mass species extinctions.^[154] from reduced habitat in tropical forests due to slash-and-burn techniques that sometimes are practiced by shifting cultivators, especially in countries with rapidly expanding rural populations; present extinction rates may be as high as 140,000 species lost per year.^[155] The IUCN Red List lists a total of 698 animal species having gone extinct during recorded human history.^[156]
• High infant and child mortality.^[157] High rates of infant mortality are caused by poverty. Rich countries with high population densities have low rates of infant mortality. [6]
• Increased chance of the emergence of new epidemics and pandemics^[158] For many environmental and social reasons, including overcrowded living conditions, malnutrition and inadequate, inaccessible, or non-existent health care, the poor are more likely to be exposed to infectious diseases.^[159]
• Starvation, malnutrition^[124] or poor diet with ill health and diet-deficiency diseases (e.g. rickets). Famine is aggravated by poverty. Rich countries with high population densities do not have famine.^[160][161]
• Poverty coupled with inflation in some regions and a resulting low level of capital formation. Poverty and inflation are aggravated by bad government and bad economic policies. Many countries with high population densities have eliminated absolute poverty and keep their inflation rates very low.^[95]
• Low life expectancy in countries with fastest growing populations^[162]
• Unhygienic living conditions for many based upon water resource depletion, discharge of raw sewage^[163] and solid waste disposal
• Elevated crime rate due to drug cartels and increased theft by people stealing resources to survive^[164]
• Conflict over scarce resources and crowding, leading to increased levels of warfare^[165]

# mericorps says :
19 June, 2008 [ 22:27 ]

It is not a matter of one faction thinking it is natural, another thinking it not natural...I do not hear a call for people with prosthetic body parts or pace makers not to wed.

It is not if it is Christian or non-Christian.  Religion is a choice, not to be forced, or it is not religion, it is slavery...faith comes from the heart not from the law books.

It is whether the bigots have the right to control the lives of of others, it is a matter of privacy and respect.

There is simply no excuse for bigotry, it was wrong when Hitler did it, it was wrong when we had slaves, it was wrong when the black panthers did it, it is wrong when the Klan does it and it is wrong when the church does it and it is wrong when expats do it and it is wrong when Peruvians do it.

It is simply the abhoration of society, to try and force others to live the way you want them to.

Hate, discrimination and bigotry is not justifiable by science or religion.

Those who think it is are the true threat to a civilized society.

Clearly, I am not saying those that do not like homosexuality, but those that think they have any right to be supremecists and control our lives.

I reject you as false..false Christians, false scientists and broken people.

# Heather says :
20 June, 2008 [ 00:28 ]

I'm confused........."if more people were gay in Peru it might actually help Peru to become a first world country???  Rita, are you ok? So, who are you to even propose this #*@&! about these fine people?

Rita and Tonia, what kind of logic is this? I don't understand. What are you suggesting?  are you guys ok?  So, Peru needs more gays so people can have jobs with higher wages??  I have a couple of people here who are doubling up with laughter after they read your comments, while I'm scratching my head wondering how you two came up with such far-fetched ideas. This is the craziest thing I've ever heard.

I can just picture Peru making an appeal for more gays to settle in Peru so they can be an economic power in Latin America.  I'm sorry guys....but this is too weird for me.

# LOL says :
20 June, 2008 [ 05:55 ]

Heather take an English class
you are making a fool of yourself.

I won't even bother explaining to you.
It would be obvious to anyone with an elementary
education that the population of Peru
would decrease if more of the Peruvian population was gay.  LOL

Where the hell did you get the idea of gays migrating to Peru?
God some people are Dumb
You have to wonder where they lefts their brains...
Do the world a favor and go jump off a cliff  HAHA

# Rich says :
20 June, 2008 [ 12:12 ]

LOL,

Have you ever heard the saying, "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?"

# Heather says :
20 June, 2008 [ 13:03 ]

Hey Whimsical (yes, you "LOL")......I understand the economics principle, but is that an option for Peru? LOL Don't be ridiculous......only in your world of "make believe" (and Rita's and Tonia's) would that happen. This discussion, in case you lost the thread, is about a gay couple going on their honeymoon to Cuzco and Machu-Picchu.....it's not about Peru's economy.

The fact that "the population of Peru would decrease if more of the population was gay"  (as if that were an option) is not an issue here. So why be whimsical?  Get a grip!

# LOL says :
20 June, 2008 [ 13:10 ]

Heather, get a clue.
Can anyone really be as stupid as you pretend to be?

You have to be joking.
Try reading the other comments above
to see why the topic came up and then think really
hard... and you will see why. Ok? Thank you.
Have a nice day in your mental asylum..
I know it's hard for people like you to understand
basic ideas...

# Poor says :
20 June, 2008 [ 13:14 ]

Heather I hope you never have children.
You are a disgrace to the human race...
Now I understand why so many people go
to fortune tellers and buy diet pills etc.
They must be the Heathers of the world. ..

# Heather says :
20 June, 2008 [ 13:34 ]

Just stay on the subject......and most of all, don't beat it to death.  When people see themselves cornered....they resort to serious insult.

# CapitanDan says :
20 June, 2008 [ 13:45 ]

Everyone get a grip on yourself. This article only stated Mr. Sulu and his partner were coming to Peru on their Honeymoon. It didn't advocate or condemn Gay Marriage. So much anger over nothing. I am not gay ,but in the course of my life have met and even have Gay Friends. As a Catholic, I believe that in this world their is a reason for everything. How come in the scheme of things each form of life depends on another to survive. I believe that we have more serious matters in Peru to contend with and be angry over than this issue. Lets unite and work on these issues. As for Mr. Sulu and his partner I wish them a Happy and long life. Me , I am going to pray and light a candle in a church nearby for all of us to better understand and get along. Chau My Friends.

# Heather says :
20 June, 2008 [ 15:06 ]

Amen to your wise words, Captain Dan......just watch that rudder!

# I agree says :
21 June, 2008 [ 08:17 ]

You are right CPT Dan. I do not even consider this subject a matter to ever take serious. It is a waste of time and effort to get stressed or angry over. The way of life will not change here, not in our lifetimes. I speak for the majority. 

# mericorps says :
21 June, 2008 [ 15:04 ]

Homosexuality is illegal in 86 out of 194 countries in the world and according to the international gay and lesbian rights campaign, is expected to drop to only 75 countries by 2010.  Further, Gay marriage or domestic partherships are legal in 21 countries and 9 states plus Washington, DC in the US and various states or departments in dozens of other countries around the world including france, Brazil, and South Africa.

The number of countries that allow gay unions is growing every year and none of the countries that offer it have shown any signs of the gloom or doom the Christian Supremecists (not to be confused with REAL Christians) or the bigots have claimed, in fact they have found just the opposite to be true. 

Gay famililies with children have shown to have children who are very healthy with high rates of college attendance, low rates of suicide and low rates of juvinile delinquent activity.  Gay divorce is lower in countries that allow gay marriage than in non-gay couples and gay marriage has been shown to be good for the economy.  The only downside to gay marriage is that it sets off the loony biggots, making it pretty clear that they are really the problem to socity and are the real threat to society and children.

Bigots, those that confront diversity with hate and anger are the true disease on this planet and should be confronted without reservation every time they show their ugly and broken souls.

# David says :
21 June, 2008 [ 19:08 ]

Bigotry like all things starts from the top. Yes the little peole may have fears of the unknown, but that can be mitigated through education.

While I disagree with a homosexual life, I'll keep my reasons why to myself for now. What really needs to happen here is education, and the governments of the world need to stop dividing it's people against one another.

It really amounts to nothing more then Black against White, Protestant aginst Catholic, North against the South and so on. If we stay divided we can not focus on the real problem.

And that my friends is not you and I (me, whichever is correct), it is the governments of the world.

Conquer and divide, smoke and mirrors, diversions. Just like sit coms on TV, just another way of keeping us dumbed down.

---

---

Time to focus on the real problems, lets get together!

# Mark says :
21 June, 2008 [ 19:44 ]

Informative topic people and quite a heated one also I might add. I'll also add that I'm not a religous person nor am I gay nor do I care about anyone else being either of these things- each to their own, as long as their beliefs are not forced onto anyone else

 "Live and let live"

and my all time favourite (from the fictional peice of work called the Bible)

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

Even though it is fiction based on mythological figures there are some real gems in there.

One, as a free thinking individual, must question why the people that teach and believe this to be "God's" word have had so much trouble over the last 2000 years adhering to this simple statement?

Science is God - yet again we have a rude and arrogant beginning to one of your posts....to start a post with the words " I assume you are uneducated" is completely unecessary. It is a derogatory remark that someone who puts himself across as "educated" usually wouldn't make.

You have had some interesting posts, it's just a pity you choose the words you do to get your point across. 'nough said!

For the believers' out there here's a little something that might get you thinking about your so called religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzciu8HvfwA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmzailhVl-U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UdQxt7b24&feature=related

Hope the links work

Conditioning - Noun

Psychology: a method of learning in which a response (called a conditioned reflex)  comes to be associated with a stimulus which would normally not produce that response. This result may be achieved through of reward and punishment.

In this particular instance Heaven & Hell is a good example

Conditioned - Adjective

(of an action) being learned as a result of conditioning

Belief - Noun

1. the feeling or confidence that something is real, true or worthwhile.

2. something which is taught or accepted as true: 'a religous belief'

It is a shame that the use of our language, it's words and their meanings has been degraded to such a level.

Knowledge is power

Children are our future

'I only know what I think I know'

Peace

Mark

# Mark says :
21 June, 2008 [ 19:47 ]

Here here David!

Well said

Peace

Mark

# Alonso says :
23 June, 2008 [ 20:45 ]

People:  just remember, you need a positive and a negative, according to Nature.  You'll be reminded of this everytime you want to turn anything on......a lamp, a radio, a refrigerator, your tv, etc.  You need a plug and a socket.   You need a man and a woman to create LIFE (or at least sperm and egg).....that is the natural way......that's the bottom line. Do we need long "apologies" about alternatives? Who are we kidding?  Isn't Nature telling us something?

Most people have some kind of "moral code"....some parameters for what they deem unacceptable. I don't want to go into details here....but what's next?? Does anything go? It's amusing to hear someone saying: "oh, that's inappropriate", yet they have questionable mores, according to most people. Suddenly, they're conveniently "blind".

It was great attending a true wedding last weekend and to know that within a year, through the miracle of Nature, this woman will bring forth LIFE, folks......LIFE! the way Nature intended it.  The translation of "giving birth" into Spanish is: "alumbrar"....."dar a luz".  That means literally.....to give LIGHT......or LIFE.  If you want to know Truth.....look at Nature! it has all the answers......even if it makes a few "bloopers" once in a while.  
 
But, ok....let's agree to disagree. You call it "tomato" and I'll call it "tomate", ok? In any case, I wish those two guys a great visit to Cuzco and Machu-Picchu, but not  because they are "married", exclusively.

# Jaime says :
24 June, 2008 [ 20:17 ]

I mostly agree with you Alonso, especially with your last statement.

Blooper is a nice way to put it, I would say homosexuality is an anomaly.

I do believe it's unnatural for the very same reasons Alonso has stated that sex and the pleasure that comes along with it is nature's incentive to procreate. Male and Female can procreate, Male and Male or Female and Female cannot hence the "unnatural" tag to homosexuality.

Of course, us being more than just mere "animals" we have fooled nature by getting this sexual pleasure without procreating. In this sense sex for pleasure is no different for heterosexuals or homosexuals since the result is the same.

Now, I might get roasted for this but just like other anomalies like blindness, deafness, etc. this does not make homosexuals any less deserving to all of the rights and privileges of a person in this society.

They want to get married? So be it! Marriage stopped being strictly a religious ceremony since you can get married by the government. That is why even being a catholic I cannot share this insane obsession over "protecting" marriage.

However, I hope we can all agree that if a church does not want to marry homosexuals for whatever reason THEY SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO. This is the only thing that I fear may happen with some governments and is a direct violation of religious freedom.

# Cleo Powers says :
4 July, 2008 [ 19:31 ]

One thing I must say, why the well did he bring up Live Long and Prosper, from a verse from Star Treks SPOCK, that stood for all things good & decent. Go suck a dog G.T.

# Alonso says :
6 July, 2008 [ 16:41 ]

Good point Cleo...but why ruin it with a vulgar comment?

# Live Long and Prosper says :
6 July, 2008 [ 17:29 ]

I hate to break this to a numbskull Christian but Spock was GAY and so was the creator of Star Trek. Do yourself a favor and stop watching it homophobe. As a matter of fact, why not stop watching tv and movies, and listening to music because most artists are gay and a homophobe like you wouldn't want to be a part of that right. So go and be a good Christian and give money to the church so that the priests can molest your sons.

Have a nice day.
Live Long and Prosper :)

# Sean says :
6 July, 2008 [ 18:37 ]

Cool it....."live long and prosper".  Go listen to some great music at "youtube.com".  Type Ajena (merengue) Banda Super Impacto de Puno.

I doubt if any of these musicians are "gay".....yet they play great music.....please don't generalize.

Note where the musicians are playing.....on a reed boat (caballito de totora) on Lake Titicaca!  also it appears they're playing on the floating island of the Uros. Amazing!  This music (caribbean)is totally out of their league.....yet they play it so well and with such gusto.  They're probably very poorly paid for all the energy they put out.

I've bookmarked this video, so whenever I'm feeling overwhelmed or frustrated, I play it and it energizes me just watching what these guys can do with so little. Their instruments look like they were "Made in Puno". The video part is not too good but stay with it and you will see the unlikely backgrounds I'm talking about.  It's the music and the spirit of these great musicians from the Altiplano what matter here.

So...if you happen to be in Puno....look up this great band and make a donation so they can maintain their instruments and buy new suits.  Viva la Banda Super Impacto de Puno!

# David says :
6 July, 2008 [ 18:40 ]

Cleo power and Live long and prosper you both need to take it down a notch. If I missed anyone else feel free to include yourself.

Be constuctive and you can say pretty much anything you like. Start getting nasty and we'll simply pull the plug.

So, live long and prosper, Na nu, Na nu!

David

# Van Halen says :
6 July, 2008 [ 23:45 ]

David:  right on the money, dude.